Happy new year, Zorro. Congratulations.

Validating information is a wonderful thing.

Zorro, here is something interesting to read. One wonders how many people went through hardship before 'they' came up with this form.

[groups.google.com];

Some discussion of it here:


[forum.culteducation.com]

dear lord, that is a sleazy disclaimer.
Very clearly its saying...if you don't take Landmark, you are MENTALLY ILL or have "serious emotional problems".

Landmark knows that people who may have issues, are the LAST ones usually to admit it. And that disclaimer functions something like a challenge to them...ARE YOU STRONG ENOUGH?

It also protects Landmark, of course.
Its loaded with Landmark language.

They want people to feel bad about themselves if they don't take Landmark...like something is wrong with them.
In reality, its the exact opposite. Those who don't take Landmark are far better off.
They state right there that some people get PSYCHOSIS from Landmark. They have to put that in.

Werner Erhard is one of the worst of all time, truly a disturbed person.

Quote
corboy
Zorro, here is something interesting to read. One wonders how many people went through hardship before 'they' came up with this form.

[groups.google.com];

Some discussion of it here:


[forum.culteducation.com]

also, by Landmarks own criteria, most people should NOT take Landmark.

So don't take it.

If anyone ever asks you again to take Landmark again in your life, just tell them to read their own stupid disclaimer that states most people should NOT take Landmark.
That is the perfect way to shut these Landmark recruiters up. Read your own ridiculous disclaimer.

Or tell them to sign on the disclaimer that they personally think YOU should take it. Get them to sign their name on the Landmark disclaimer stating they think you should take Landmark.

This is actually the perfect LGAT buster...ask for the LGAT disclaimer signed by the salesperson personally, stating why you should take it.
They will go numb all over and walk away.

Its tempting to go into some Landmark Intro meeting to "discuss" that disclaimer for about 3 hrs publically in front of the new recruits..

this is the perfect way to get rid of the LGAT recruiters.

Ask for the Disclaimer for the LGAT.
Then get them to cross-out the parts of it that don't apply to you, and ask them to sign it personally, or have their manager sign it.

Then tell them you are going to get it legally notarized at the notary at the mall.

If everyone did that, they would be out of business.
Its Judo, just use their own disclaimer against them.

If they say they don't have a disclaimer, get them to sign a document saying they don't have a disclaimer.
you will never hear from them again.

Protect yourself. Don't do Landmark. This is a dangerous thing to do with your mind. Think about it. Most people who sign up for this experience are searching for something. By nature, if there is something lacking in your life there is the potential for instability in your mental and emotional state. Nobody has led a trauma free life. It simply varies by degrees. If sombody tries to recruit you, read every part of that disclaimer. realize that it is just as extensive as a skydiving disclaimer, and this program poses a clear danger to a very large population of people, otherwise Landmark would not need a disclaimer. Landmark groupies are very persausive. To quote one of the people who recruited me "Landmark really changed my life."
Well I can tell you Landmark really changed my life too. It damaged my psyche to the point that I required hospitaliztion. It damaged my family. It destroyed at least two friendships, and it left me feeling raw, exposed, helpless and hopless for a period of YEARS. I was filled with self blame and self doubt and during my most vulnerable point I was contacted by enough Landmark people to insure that I would stay that way. "Well you know Landmark HELPS far more people than it hurts. This only happened to you because there was already something wrong with you" I was left certain that I was some sort of freak because I hadn't ever heard of this happening to anyone else. Landmark is DANGEROUS and DECEPTIVE.
Just Don't Do It
EVER
Karen

Dear blujayne:

Use this board but dont let various and sundry types mess with your head.

Here is a post from a recent discussion.

[forum.culteducation.com]

You've disclosed some information about yourself that is potentially sensitive. Most of the visitors we have here are great. But some have not been so nice.

So dont let anyone like that toy with you. You have dignity as a human being. You are not an object to be toyed with.

Here is some information to help you become savvy in the ways of the internet, especially discussion forums where controversial matters are discussed--and where attempts are often made to disrupt these discussions.

David Wong, wrote an article

Five Ways to Stop Trolls from Killing the Internet

[www.cracked.com]


Quote:
"Right now if you have a blog or forum or anything else with open comments, and you don't have a human moderator to watch it, you're going to wind up with a wasteland.
"As soon as more than one troll shows up, they will feed off each other until everyone else is gone. You have to control them.

"And don't start talking about free speech; the troll's goal is to shut down speech, to either fill the channel with noise until no one can talk to each other, or to get everyone talking about him instead of the subject at hand. He's a guy in a coffee shop screaming nonsense over a bullhorn."


In this case, 'the subject at hand' are groups RR.com members have concerns about.

Since this discussion is attracting so many disruptive visitors, here is some additional reading matter on trolls:

Beware the Troll

[www.teamtechnology.co.uk]

A much more specific article on Troll Tactics

[www.teamtechnology.co.uk]

**This is epecially important for those of us on RR.com using the Private Message (PM) system. Someone may try to game you through the PM system.

Dont fall for it


Here are just one or two items
from the list:

Tactical Trolls

Quote:

.(quoted excerpt from a longer article at theURL listed above)

Quote

They engage in off list email dialogues to gain the confidence and trust of influential individuals on the list.

They are friendly and humorous in the posts, to put you at ease with their persona.

They have a well-thought-through story such that the persona seems to be very real. They will give apparently personal and intimate information, particularly in off list emails.

They win trust by giving trust. For example, they may hint at something confidential on-list, but then only reveal the full story to someone off-list. By bringing someone into their confidence, they create a feeling of confidence towards them by the individual's concerned

In off-list emails, (eg which correspond to RR.coms PM)they use techniques borrowed from NLP and Speed-Seduction to make people have a great deal of affection for them. This naturally suppresses any suspicion there might be.

They use gimmicks that win sympathy and bring out the 'nurturing parent' in other list members, which also suppresses any feelings of suspicion. E.g.: being blind, handicapped, an orphan, rejected, bullied etc..

They use language that is carefully constructed to be subtly invidious. This language is designed to identify two or more separate groups of people, and encourage list members to identify the negative traits of those groups. This creates argument and dissent between list members. Note that subtlety is often their main objective, so this language is difficult to spot.

They don't enter into the argument directly, but facilitate an argument between list members, e.g.: by highlighting points that one list member has made, perhaps in a way that is more confrontational than the original intention.

They sometimes create a fictitious persona supported by a web-site, photographs and apparently personal data

If you are very tempted to get involved with someone by the PM function, or if you feel just "off" or cant figure out the motives of someone on RR.com, here is a tip:

Audit that persons posts and read them in aggregate. You can spot trends that way. Do this by going to the 'Search' button on the upper right hand corner. Go and do an 'author search' put the persons handle into the slot and then select 'all forums' and 'all dates'

If someone is charming with you but not nice to others, that alone is worth knowing. And if read in aggregate, one can see if the person is overall contributing in a good way to discussions or is just being a pest.

Another Tip:

If someone demands that you prove your point and in effect tells you to convince them--be wary.

Mr Ross has a tried and true technique. He lists items for people to read--gives homework.

If they refuse to read it, that right away tags them as a troll.

**No one can convince a person of anything. Its up to them to face the radicalizing information here on the board.

Its also important to see if visitors show a basic respect and courtesy.

People use this forum to bear witness as you are doing. Some have suffered terribly.

This is not a place for entertainment or tintillation.

If someone comes along and seems to treat all this as entertainment---you have no obligation to respond to their demands.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 10:47PM by corboy.

I love the way you've laid all that out - and it is very helpful in non-dealing-with-Landmark ways, too (trolls from another site have been attacking a site that I spend a lot of time on and love). Thanks, corboy

great stuff C. I have a few trolls on my youtubevideos. One guy created may 80-100 accounts on youtube and posted that I was a RickRoss robot.

I then deleted all of his comments and blocked his user. So he created a new one and kept going. I told him to get some professional help for his manic state. He was gone for some time but has tried again.

He started out as zigzagidiot. He has probably been here too.

I experienced psychosis from Landmark as well. thankyou for sharing your story. I was hospitalised and i have been in treatment for 6 months. treatment has been terrible, really bad side effects. As a result of landmark and my treatment i then got depression, and am now on anti-depressents as well. I have no history of mental illness before now. It isolated me from my family and friends (i did ILP). I had a conversation with my boss today and she wasn't too nice on the topic of landmark, hurt my feelings a lot as i never meant her any harm. I think she had been bitching to the other lady at work about me. *sigh* i so much wish i could erase all of landmark from my brain.

Quote
psychological damage
I experienced psychosis from Landmark as well. thankyou for sharing your story. I was hospitalised and i have been in treatment for 6 months. treatment has been terrible, really bad side effects. As a result of landmark and my treatment i then got depression, and am now on anti-depressents as well. I have no history of mental illness before now. It isolated me from my family and friends (i did ILP). I had a conversation with my boss today and she wasn't too nice on the topic of landmark, hurt my feelings a lot as i never meant her any harm. I think she had been bitching to the other lady at work about me. *sigh* i so much wish i could erase all of landmark from my brain.

i have a question for u. do u have any kind of problem relating back to your life before your involvement with landmark ?

are your memories still vibrant or seem dimmed somehow ?

Let go your heart. Let go your head. And feel it now.
...............................................................david gray