I dont feel I attacked anyone. I dont feel I flamed. I simply asked what would motivate a person to choose a contraversial screen name such as Nietzsche on a web site whose purpose is to expose and disband those who use philosophies of this ilk to their advantage, in the name of religion, to gain control of others mentally, monetarily, and spiritually. My post was very matter-of-fact and without anger or accusations. I simply asked what the motivation was. The answer I got was just as unclear as Nietzsche's writing are.

I would strongly request that posts about the philosopher Nietzsche be moved to another thread about that topic, as that clearly has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
Make a new thread about him and discuss it, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

A common cultic technique is to push those who criticize the group-cult off-topic, and start to criticize anything about them, to change the focus. Scientology does it, they all do it.

While I am more than happy to discuss Nietzsche with anyone, I agree with Anti-cult, this is not the place.

If you would like to discuss Nietzsche, please contact me via private message.

I apologize for taking away from the topic at hand.

Thank you for setting us straight.

The Anticult:

You made a good point.

The strategy to push a thread off-topic is often used by people called "Internet Trolls."

See [curezone.com]

Further posts that are off topic will not be approved and/or deleted from this thread.

FYI--this thread is about a religious group called "Royal Way" also known as the "Jacumba Foundation" and its leader Michael Gottlieb.

Recently an article published about the group by the Los Angeles Times (1989) was added to the Ross Insitute archives.

See [www.culteducation.com]

If anyone can find additional articles from local newspapers and/or court documents about the group or Gottlieb let me know.

I thank you all for how this issue of going off topic was handled. I had to check myself in this area. Because as I browse the various threads, and add comments. I lose track of exactly the topic of thread and post based on the current postings.

So, in hindsight. I can see how I have been guilty of going off topic at times. I will work on keeping myself on topic more closely.

It was nice to see polite and considerate disagreement take place.

Agreed! We all need to be more diligent about this.

There have been some very interesting accusations posted here. Here is my experience.
I have attended several retreats at the Royal Way Ranch. I do not attend the weekly meetings in Santa Monica as I see no need to. These are my observations and opinions. I am not an expert

Michael is a well-spoken and very opinionated older man with a, seemingly, very big ego. Michael appears to have a background in western-based therapy. He frequently makes references to Sufism and eastern religions. I good mix between western based thought and mystic religious approaches. What he teaches is not original. In his newsletters, he really pounds home the need for a tie to one teacher and a reliance on that teacher. The concept would be similar to what you will find in Tibetan and Zen Buddhism.

Many of the people that come to Royal Way are successful professionals that have achieved success and wealth but not necessarily happiness. Michael’s approach is initially effective and gradual. He instills self acceptance and openness towards others among other things. If you come to him without any previous training in meditation and/or eastern religions, it is easy to see how you would be very impressed with him. What he does for you, you can do on your own. However, you will never convince a Royal Way convert of that. Members seem to graduate from retreats to the Santa Monica meetings to Pilgrimages.


I have a friend that is involved and I am concerned. He spends more and more time at the ranch and actually prefers going to the ranch to going on vacations at great locales. He seems to think that he is spiritually liked to Michael and that Michael’s death will be of little consequence. That really bothers me. This is an intelligent and successful professional. I feel like he is already completely gone. I’m going to do everything in my power to snap him out of it, but I am not hopeful. He won’t even read spiritual information from other sources.


These people, for the most part, seem to think that their lives have improved under Michael and that is what really seems to matter to them. There is no mystery to what Michael is doing and I am shocked at how easily he is reeling these people in. I will not be attending anymore events as I can get more from my own studies. I wish Royal way members well.

Michael’s teaching and ideology is not about spirituality or any kind of religious thoughts, as I mentioned before, those things are just devices to him. He simply propagates his personal agenda by selecting and formulating bits and pieces of information from various sources. So you ask, isn’t that what all scholars do? Yes they do, but the difference is that true scholars promote ideas, not themselves. Fame and Fortunes follows these scholars as a residual effect in our current capitalist society.

The only certain thing about Michael is his practice of manipulation and deceit. Believe it or not, his concept of one teacher/leader is also celebrated by few others. Most notably, Fidel Castro of Cuba, Kim Jong-Il of North Korea, Than Shwe of Myanmar and the new up and coming Hugo Chaves of Venezuela. I’m sure Michael and all these leaders once believed that they will share their wisdom and knowledge for the benefit of the common good. But, history tells us a very different story. The idea of “one” teacher/leader is inherently flawed and outright dangerous. Preaching such concept back in the 40’s and 50’s in America would have certainly landed you in the interrogation room as a sympathizer of communism. I wonder if Michael is so hush hush about his Letters because he lived through this era of American history.

On another note, there seems to be this belief that successful professionals tend to gravitate toward this RW group, but this is a myth. It’s true that there are few members who hold professional license and practice, but most of the members are regular wage-earners who hold various positions in the public and private sector. Also, don’t be fooled by the appearance of wealth or some rumors about success, they’re only skin deep. Based on my experience with RW Members, Michael doesn’t seem to teach his followers anything about humility, but only the appearance of …etc.

I just attended a marathon study session day. At this function, you studied four of Michael's letters in four separate sessions. All of the sessions started with a quiet moment of reverence for not God, but for Michael. I was shocked. All four sessions were Michael love fests. These people are definitely gone on Michael. If I had any doubts about Royal Way being a Cult, they are now gone. He is just pulling them in and controlling them. Sad! The guy claims to be a direct decendant of King David on his mother's and father's side of the family. These people are eating it up!

**URGENT**
Hi everyone, I am a frequent poster on the Impact Trainings thread, a recovering LGAT victim and an ally in the fight against all LGATs.
I am writing this because one of my best friends is a photojournalist and is very interested in doing a story on "how (insert any LGAT here) ruined your life."
If Royal Way/Jacumba ruined your life, you would like a chance to be heard, and you are either in southern California or in northern Utah PLEASE PM me today or tommorrow. She needs to write up a proposal first and needs someone to do the story about, but the proposal is due in the next couple days. Please PM me if you have any questions, are interested or know someone who might be interested. Thanks so much![/size:77069b7546]