I come back periodically to read new posts to this thread and am glad to see the increase in interest and activity about the Royal Way group – clearly, this is something that the RW folks would very much like to be able to stop, and the sooner for them the better. This post is to those of you wishing to [u:282bf8b138]expose[/u:282bf8b138] the RW group for what it is.

There is no need or reason to engage in insults and accusations in this thread. In fact, doing so merely distracts from the objective, which is exposure of this group as a cult and, perhaps, one currently operating outside of our tax-law. These distractions of insults and accusations have no real purpose or value and so long as they continue the true objective of the inevitable exposure of this group will be delayed. [b:282bf8b138]Personal attacks do not aid in exposing this group. [/b:282bf8b138] Indeed, on some level, RW probably welcomes the distraction.

There is likely only one way to crack this tightly-formed, very close group and to expose its charismatic leader, Michael Gottlieb: the proven and time-tested method of [u:282bf8b138]“follow-the-money.”[/u:282bf8b138]

To those of you who haven’t read previous pages of this thread: I am a former member of RW (when it was called “Jacumba”) and I have no axe to grind. But, secretive groups like RW whose members (many of them, anyway) tend to literally worship their “teacher” – who claims a spiritually-significant lineage – and who engage in secretive and separatist behavior like RW does are cults…and they should be exposed as such, particularly when they seem to construct their organization in order to evade our tax-laws.

[b:282bf8b138]Again, the personal attacks have no real value and do absolutely nothing to expose this group…simply [u:282bf8b138]follow-the-money[/u:282bf8b138].[/b:282bf8b138] Several posters have provided very helpful information and links on this thread - use them.

stop rw:

Please filter the name calling and what might be considered threats from your posts.

I know you probably mean well and don't appear to be actually threatening anything criminal or violent, but you should not even seem to be doing this.

Try to respond directly to what the rw supporters say and not engage in a nasty exchange, which really doesn't serve a useful purpose.

Again, rants and name calling will be deleted/edited out, and the member that does this will be banned.

rw member:

You and other RW supporters have been asked repeatedly to post hard documentation to demonstrate your points and make things transparent regarding your organization.

If you have nothing to hide perhaps you should do this.

Freedom:

You say with such conviction that my post is “Michael’s exact words to RM.” Where do you get that? Michael never said those words to RM. I resent that you would put that on Michael. Why would you make up such a complete fabrication? I really question your saying you were neutral. If you were you would not be writing such things about Michael now. What is this need you have to all of a sudden “lose all respect for Michael”?

You say RM moved to the ranch to run it for his growth. First of all he did not RUN the Ranch. Second, it was offered to him for his growth, but HE did not do it for his growth. He did it to feel important. Third, you were here long enough to know that Michael is always open to questions. If RM had told Michael how he felt, it would have been resolved.

You ask “How is choosing to leave Royal Way because things didn’t feel right anymore a betrayal?” Why don’t you use your God-given brain and realize that you left Royal Way. Is anybody mentioning you, bothering you, attacking you? Why do you think it’s happening to RM and not you? He’s not being mentioned because he left Royal Way. When people leave Royal Way there is no problem whatsoever. Something happened in RM’s marriage regarding his position at the Ranch that he didn’t like. So he stopped doing his job and was fired. Now he is spreading vicious lies to get revenge. That is the betrayal. Don’t you know what Judas did?

And what is this stuff you are projecting on us about your feeling “flawed, shallow and empty about leaving, living in darkness because Michael’s light was just too strong for you.” No one ever said that to you. You are saying that. If you are feeling happy and free, great. But know there is no freedom if you are living a lie.

Anticult,

Do you really think we could “psychologically manipulate” you with “mind games” if you talked with us? Do you really think we would tell you to “learn to trust”? Who have you been talking to that does that? Did you get “burned” by some LGAT and that is why you are so angry? I have no fear of mind manipulation. I can easily talk to one or a hundred people about anything.

And to compare us to Scientology is ludicrous. We could not be more different. You say the very same stuff about all the LGATs you attack. I read your various postings all over this website. You repeat verbatim the same cookie cutter terms over and over.

So I will tell you again. We are saying no to your demands. We are not accountable to you or anyone else on this website. If you want a witch hunt. Fine. Happy hunting.

And, Anticult, just so you know, maybe it is a “nightmare” for you, but not for me. Go back and read my postings to you. Isn’t it obvious that I’m having fun.

By the way, don’t think I don’t notice that every time there is a posting in favor of Royal Way that you follow it immediately with pages of meaningless information thinking you are neutralizing our posting.

Finally, you’ll be happy to know that one of your people called one of our members and in a disguised voice said: “You better get out now. The end is coming.” Aren’t you proud of yourself?

rrmoderator,

You say we have been repeatedly asked to post hard documentation to demonstrate our points and make things transparent regarding our organization. We have repeatedly not only said no to those demands, but explained why. One more time. We are not on trial here. We are being unjustly attacked with ridiculous accusations and allegations. Do you really think any intelligent person would comply with the demands of people who are clearly on a witch hunt?

I love what SANSAT said earlier:

Quote

Again, the personal attacks have no real value and do absolutely nothing to expose this group…simply follow-the-money. Several posters have provided very helpful information and links on this thread - use them.

[b:fa3654259a]Follow the money[/b:fa3654259a]

Succinct and well put.

Quote
RW Member
You say we have been repeatedly asked to post hard documentation to demonstrate our points and make things transparent regarding our organization. We have repeatedly not only said no to those demands, but explained why.
...So I will tell you again. We are saying no to your demands. We are not accountable to you or anyone else on this website.

Well there you have it. The Royal Way absolutely refuses to provide the most basic information required by any ethical non-profit church or organization. They are in complete violation of the most basic of ethical management principles, and fail on all counts.

Standards of Responsible Stewardship
[www.ecfa.org]
[www.ecfa.org]

The Donor's Bill of Rights
[www.ecfa.org]

In my opinion, Royal Way also meets many of the criteria from these Warning Signs.
[www.culteducation.com]

So there is only one response to that.
Do not get involved in any way with with Royal Way, and do not give them any money, whether in cash gifts, tithes, or course fees.

For former members, they could also take the advice of the IRS, and report any suspected non-compliance with the tax-laws confidentially.
The full information on how to contact the IRS is found in this post.

How to contact the IRS
[board.culteducation.com]

Since 'RW Member' is still trying to have a go at me, I will just set the record straight.
I am not concerned about you talking to me personally, I am well aware of the LGAT techniques, and many other techniques, but those techiques do work on many people who are not aware of what is going on.
The proof is in the Profits and real estate holdings.

I have analyzed and criticized a number of groups on this website, but they all stand on their own. But there are commonalities in various techniques being used. For instance, [b:a99aa25c9e]using a tax-exempt corporation to get rich by tax-avoidance, and putting all your assets inside a non-profit corp that you control [/b:a99aa25c9e] is very common. Also, indoctrination techniques can be very similar.
Scientology looks for weaknesses in people, and then hammers them with that after they reveal those vulnerabilities. Read the RW posts attacking the guy who broke up with his girlfriend, or lost a friend, or quit Royal Way, or mocking peoples screen names, etc. Its all in the text, anyone can see it.

As far as "my people" and alleged crank phone calls, that is ludicrisp. I don't have any "people", I didn't start this thread. That is a paranoid conspiracy.

Who knows, maybe someone is concerned that a full IRS investigation is coming, and that the Royal Way tax-exampt status will be revoked...and its time to cut and run...
Who knows...

Quote
RW Member
Anticult,

Do you really think we could “psychologically manipulate” you with “mind games” if you talked with us? Do you really think we would tell you to “learn to trust”? Who have you been talking to that does that? Did you get “burned” by some LGAT and that is why you are so angry? I have no fear of mind manipulation. I can easily talk to one or a hundred people about anything.

And to compare us to Scientology is ludicrous. We could not be more different. You say the very same stuff about all the LGATs you attack. I read your various postings all over this website. You repeat verbatim the same cookie cutter terms over and over.

So I will tell you again. We are saying no to your demands. We are not accountable to you or anyone else on this website. If you want a witch hunt. Fine. Happy hunting.

And, Anticult, just so you know, maybe it is a “nightmare” for you, but not for me. Go back and read my postings to you. Isn’t it obvious that I’m having fun.

By the way, don’t think I don’t notice that every time there is a posting in favor of Royal Way that you follow it immediately with pages of meaningless information thinking you are neutralizing our posting.

Finally, you’ll be happy to know that one of your people called one of our members and in a disguised voice said: “You better get out now. The end is coming.” Aren’t you proud of yourself?

Quote
RW Man
Dear Anticult,

...You don’t have to consider any point of view contrary to your own. When you know, from an empyrean perspective, what thoughts are good for people and what thoughts are bad, you get to toss rationality, and the critical thinking that you profess to value, out the door.

...you get to say that countering lies is a “Thought Stopping (sic) tactic.” No, Anticult, countering lies is countering lies. Can you be open to that?

I have always pushed for an empirical approach to this. What are the facts? Where's the proof? And like I said, if we could see the Royal Way financials, like we can with any respectable organization, then we can make an empirical analyses of the data. If the data points in a new direction, then you follow the data.

Thought Stopping is an actual techique, it can be used helpfully in therapy, or unhelpfully by a manipulator.
[www.ex-cult.org]

Quote

Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking

And the Royal Way people, just saying over and over in posts.."its all lies...its all lies" to me is a Thought Stopping technique.
You see, its NOT "all lies".
There are dozens of FACTS, and many other types of information.
But to almost CHANT....[i:22c3ab9abd] "its all lies...its all lies...its all lies..."[/i:22c3ab9abd]
literally is a type of Thought Stopping.
Its trying to blank out all critical analyses with a gross overgeneralization.

That sounds like something Michael would put out there...
"its all lies...its all lies..."
Sorry Mike, its NOT all lies. There is a mixture of data, and there are lots of facts, and many open questions.