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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: zombee83 ()
Date: October 16, 2006 01:31AM


Thank you for posting my reaction even though it came close to "flaming". I am very upset at what is going on here with people making claims with nothing to back it up, and statements that are hurtful and damaging. After I wrote my response, I cried and then felt sad for hours later. The postings here are so hurtful toward people who are good. My comment toward you had to do with "outing" as compared to voluntary exposure. It's their choice whether they attack behind a pen name or not. But don't you think moderators should be neutral?

A look at your posts show a skepticism toward anyone in support of RW. All your responses, "interesting" or not, show suspicion of pro RW posters, while you having no problem with the mean spirited anti RW posters. Almost everyone posting here has under 10 posts, so "trolling" could be suggested of either side. But you only call people who are understandably offended "trolls". What about the attackers? Aren't they possibly "trolls" too?

I only came to this site because my friend told me about an intro day coming up. I guess they only do a few a year. I have no other reason to visit here, because I'm not obsessed with cults. I will probably never post here again after this one, because I don't like what is going on and I don't think there is fairness here. But since you work here, volunteer or whatever, I think you would give some thought to being more balanced rather than just being supportive of the negativity and suspicious of anything positive.

Actually I may post my experience after the intro day, but if it is positive I still may be branded a "troll". Nevertheless I will decide later. But even posting here now feels icky, like even being supportive is still contributing to the negativity. It makes me feel sad. I'm going to go out and have fun today, and turn this energy around! Bye all you attackers, have fun attacking! :)

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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: SANSAT ()
Date: October 16, 2006 03:28AM

Many of these recent postings indicate both an apprehensive but understandable speculation on the part of folks without any true first-hand knowledge of RW, and the fearful defense by current RW members concerned that the world is getting ever closer to the apparent truth about RW.

I AM a former member (when the group called itself “Jacumba”) and left for a specific reason, which I’ll get to shortly. While Michael Gottlieb does prey on what I would characterize as unfilled and lost souls his “teachings,” in fact, can be beneficial and do provide certain people with some purpose in their otherwise empty lives. (Essentially, many of these “teachings” appeared to me to be simple reinforcements of how one can live life in a less-than-timid, albeit somewhat more spiritual, manner.) Many, if not most, of these people feel as though they need some sort of guidance in their life. And, Michael provides them with that guidance (right or wrong), his approval of them for them having accepted it and the intimation that they are somehow special or better than “non-believers” because of that acceptance.

It is true that many of Michael’s followers are generally affluent – they also lack a sense of perspective. They don’t use him as a tool and regulate what they “learn,” rather, they wind-up relying on Michael and his “teachings” to repurpose the path that their life is on. They depend on him much more in their individual lives than they probably should and, in many cases, ultimately subjugate and relinquish their own identity to him. Michael reinforces this behavior of reliance and then commends them for being so “enlightened.” None of this is really a great mystery. I know that I’m being overly simplistic here but he basically gains their trust in him, points them in the direction he wants them go by telling them what they should “work on,” implies to them that “they’re ok” for doing (or having done) so and provides them with the prospect of being approved and accepted by a group (clearly one of the things that most people covet so dearly is acceptance by a peer group). Michael Gottlieb is a charismatic manipulator who fulfills a need in people yearning for a sense of belonging and for a sense of community.

But, many of these people are also susceptible to being duped into believing that he is somehow transcendent of this world. When he tells or infers to his followers that his own lineage is historically relevant in a spiritually significant way, and that to be close to him is akin to being close to God, or otherwise “enlightened,” (hence another reason for the name-change to [i:a7aa86e2a2]Royal Way[/i:a7aa86e2a2]) he ceases to “teach” and instead presides over what can only be defined as a cult.

In fact, I left Jacumba because I felt that what I was getting involved in was just that – a cult, and surely many of the past and present RW methods are key elements when trying to identify a group as a cult. Nonetheless, Michael Gottlieb, at least in part, controls a group of dedicated and supportive people whom he has succeeded in convincing that he is somehow divine, who willingly and freely write checks for the “privilege” of membership in his club and who are resolute in their defense of him and his “teachings.” RW may not ever commit mass-suicide but Michael Gottlieb does preside over a cult...period.

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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: bells ()
Date: October 16, 2006 05:15AM

What I would like to know is what happens when members leave the Royal Way? Is this a lifetime commitment? Are there 80 year olds on the Ranch?

SS2006 - you said that "The people I know all go to retreats regularly, go to patrons party, the West LA meetings, go to one month “silent retreats” over and over." What are "silent retreats"? And what exactly do people DO on all these retreats anyway?

On a side note: I looked up the term "troll" per our moderator's request. I also looked up the definition of a moderator, and discovered that many moderators take it upon themselves to AVOID conflict of interest and bias. Interesting.


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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: Observer ()
Date: October 16, 2006 06:51AM

I am a practicing psychotherapist and it is clear to me that some of these postings attacking Royal Way are the products of disturbed minds. I would like to give my name, but these people can be dangerous. As it is they will probably attack me verbally. Read their words carefully and you will see how disturbed they are.

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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 16, 2006 07:15AM

This post by 'Disappointed' sounds like a canned speech to me, with the intent to try and deflect people away from internet information gathering about Royal Way, but to instead direct them to Royal Way "persuaders" who can mess with people's minds, and dupe them into becoming a follower of some "spiritual teacher they love, respect and revere".
I just find that line sickening...who wants to REVERE some "spiritual teacher" when the person is apparently engaging in hurtful and selfish behaviors towards others?
This post by 'Disappointed' actually makes me deeply question what is really going on with this Royal Way group. Its obviously a post by someone who is a Leader in the Royal Way group. My guess would be its the same person who has attempted to get this thread removed.

It is interesting, that in literally every case I can think of, every one of these cultish groups and cults, absolutely despise Free Speech, Freedom of Thought and Belief, and Critical Thinking. They know that people who DARE to question their REVERED narcissist of a "Leader", are not going to be obedient followers who do what they are told.
They are TERRIFIED that their followers will learn to think for themselves, and engage in Freedom of Thought. It literally drives them nuts.
And their narcissism drives them to deeply desire people to REVERE them.
Its all very sick.

After a couple of friends spoke to me about Royal Way, I began looking for more information on this group. That’s how I came across your website. At first I thought I might learn something useful about Royal Way but reading some of the writings of recent posters has me doubting. They are filled with such vitriol and fury, one would think that nothing happening in the world today is more deserving of attack then the mere existence of this group. Why do these posters find it so upsetting, so unsettling, knowing there are people who have found a spiritual teacher they love, respect and revere? Maybe some people just can’t stand seeing others growing and happy.

I’ve decided that I’m better off going back to my friends and asking them to tell me more about Royal Way. I would rather talk to a real person who really knows, not someone I’ve never met with their own negative agenda. Looking at my friends – people I respect because of who they are and what they do – I think I’ll get more truthful information from them than I will from this website.

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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: October 16, 2006 07:38PM



Does that mean you are Ph.D. psychologist or licensed therapist in the state of California with what credentials?

Do you always offer a diagnosis without testing or even meeting people?

Again, this seems more like "flaming" again.

Read the rules.

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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 16, 2006 07:49PM

Oh, you sound like an amazingly ethical "psychotherapist" who goes around accusing random people on the internet of being "disturbed and dangerous".
As a matter of fact, if you were LICENSED, you could lose your license, or be suspended for doing that.

It is interesting though, to see some of the RW Apologists trying to do a few dirty tricks in this thread...sounds real "spiritual" to me...NOT.

I am a practicing psychotherapist and it is clear to me that some of these postings attacking Royal Way are the products of disturbed minds. I would like to give my name, but these people can be dangerous. As it is they will probably attack me verbally. Read their words carefully and you will see how disturbed they are.

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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: John D. Zemanek ()
Date: October 17, 2006 12:48PM

Anon1234 has now made it clear he/she has no interest whatsoever in a real dialogue where maybe somebody—maybe even everybody—learns something.

The newest posters—hal and SS2006—seem to be of the same ilk.

So what are they interested in? Read their postings and decide. Do you see anything other than viciousness, ignorance and self-righteousness? And all of it vented against whom? What did the objects of their insults and scorn (including my Teacher Michael, my friend Sharon, and the friends of hal, SS2006 and Anon1234) ever do to them?

It’s a strange formula, isn’t it? They say that there is much they don’t know about Royal Way. But this ignorance isn’t an occasion to try to learn more. Instead, it’s an excuse to say vile insulting things about people who never harmed them. And the crude insults are cloaked in this nauseating mantle of self-righteousness. Here come the cult cops!

By the way, did you smell the ozone frying off the logical short-circuits while Anon1234, hal and SS2006 tried to get their brains around the idea that many Royal Way members have money and are successful in life? Let me try to distill it: the true sign of a cult is when either (1) its members don’t have money or worldly success, or (2) its members do have money and worldly success. You can’t win for losing, as my mom used to say.

In fact, as well as the reader can decipher it, the only way to know for sure that you are NOT in a cult is to BE Anon1234, hal or SS2006, each of whom never once questions how it is that they were blessed with the gift of knowing what’s best for everybody.

Hey, why be content with uttering nasty things in a measly little chat room (or whatever this thing is)? Why not get yourselves some brown shirts and a salute? Start having meetings? Start breaking windows and roughing people up. I know this beer hall in Munich…

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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: hal ()
Date: October 17, 2006 03:11PM

Dear zombee83,

I AM NOT A COWARD! If you would like say anything else mean to me - contact me in a private message.

You want to hear something funny? I decided to confront my friends about seeing them on the DVD. I approached them very polite and friendly. They were VERY ashamed that I saw them on this dvd. They admited that they plan on leaving RW and how embarassed they are for me seeing them. Are they cowards??? This is your flock and they are embarassed! I approached them with love and respect and they feel ashamed? I'm confussed zombee83?

I asked if I can come to intro night to see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears. I went as far and contacted the W. LA office on Olympic Blvd. to ask if I can come to a meeting. And guess what? I was actually invited to go and I'm going!

My friends wll be there with me and I can't wait to see the enlightenment that you are soooooo protective about.

From this point on - please send me a private message if you feel to trash me and call me names. I see the venomn dripping from words and I'm here to express what I have observed. Shame on you for claiming that I AM A COWARD! I am not a coward! I've survived poverty, child sexual abuse, breast cancer, parent abandonment, and the death of my only sibling while I was attending a 4 year university. Here I am 32 years old strong and ready to fight. So don't you DARE EVER CALL ME A COWARD!!! I do not deserve that zombee83. I will pray to God to help heal your black heart for calling me a coward.

As for the rest of the message board - as soon as I go to the intro meeting I will certainly be back and give you full details.



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Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by: Sharon Nader ()
Date: October 18, 2006 06:39AM

It is becoming increasingly clear that there are one or two people with many anonymous names, using this website to pursue their vendetta against Royal Way. There is nothing anyone from Royal Way can say that would elicit any kind of lucid response from these people. Everything they say is a lie. They have their own agenda which has nothing to do with reason, reality, true information or any first hand knowledge. I ask them: Why are you continuingly lying about Royal Way? What is your agenda behind those lies? You have never attended anything in Royal Way, know nothing about it, and decide with no real information that Royal Way is a cult. Where do you get that? From your cult handbook?

Hal, you say your “dear friends” tried to recruit you for Royal Way. Didn’t it occur to you that “dear friends” would never try to recruit you for anything? Royal Way does not recruit anyone. Didn’t it occur to you that maybe your friends had a wonderful experience and wanted to share it with you? You say you are concerned about your friends as if you are so smart and they are so feeble-minded. You say they are amazing people, well educated and financially successful, then you insult them by saying they are weak-minded, empty, hollow and suicidal. What kind of friend are you? You say you love them but you don’t tell them you fear for their welfare. What if your friends were drowning, would you help them or just wait for them with open arms. What kind of love is that? Who are you to decide what is best for them? Who appointed you judge and jury of what is right for people? Did you tell your friends your feelings? Did you ask for an explanation? Do you like these people? Do you trust them? Do they have any qualities you like? Why don’t you talk to them? You might get a real answer. But you aren’t looking for that. You want to feign concern and show it on the internet. Does that make you feel important?

You say your friends are rich and powerful and you are not in their income bracket. At least eighty percent of the people in Royal Way come to Royal Way when they are at a low income level. You say you drive a Honda. There is nothing wrong with Hondas, but why are you so jealous and concerned about Mercedes, BMW’s, etc. If you want one, go get yourself one. Maybe it’s not important to your friends how much money you have. Why don’t you go out into the world and become rich and powerful yourself? Try something real where you can use your God-given brain to discern if it’s good for you or not. Maybe that’s what your friends did. Is it possible that your “rich and powerful” successful friends made a choice for themselves and like what they are doing?

And who are you, Anon1234 and SS2006? Weak, petty, jealous anonymous people afraid and intimidated by real power, money and success, looking for power on the internet. You pretend fake authority and power slandering an organization you know absolutely nothing about. You sit comfortably behind a keyboard where you pass judgments and write lies, rather than experience life. Why don’t you make something of yourselves, which is far more rewarding than attempting to pull something higher down to your level. Instead you are cowards hiding behind anonymity writing to a blog. Is that living? What you are doing is wrong. It’s libelous, petty and mean. What is this vile nastiness behind these attacks? Why do you have such deep-seated hatred and venom for something you have never experienced? You repeatedly call Royal Way a cult as if repeating it over and over makes it so. This sounds like deception. You think that repeating a lie often enough will make people believe it is truth? Goebbels, the Nazi propaganda minister, believed by mere repetition a lie will be accepted by most people.

Nothing in Royal Way is in any way similar to a cult. If anything, it is the opposite of a cult. Royal Way has never hurt anyone and has helped thousands. Royal Way people not only give money, they give of themselves in a real way.

You think you are so clever asking if I like cleaning Michael’s toilet for free. Your envy and mean streak come through so blatantly. To answer your question: No, I don’t clean Michael’s toilet. Neither does anyone else do it for free. A paid housekeeper receiving a monthly salary does that.

Simply put, everything you say is a lie. If you believe in karma you must know that sooner or later you are going to pay a heavy price for these unwarranted vicious attacks.

This is my last response to this website, because no matter what anyone says you will twist it around to fit your agenda. Life is too precious to waste any of it on this meaningless rubbish.

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