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caligari
Could you point me to a few of these references?
In the eight years I was heavily involved I never heard one disparging remark about therapists. Werner did have a habit of making off the cuff strident remarks in internal meetings -- so it's not unusual he may have said something. But I never heard of or saw a organizational stand against therapists.
-- Caligari
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elenaQuote
caligari
Could you point me to a few of these references?
In the eight years I was heavily involved I never heard one disparging remark about therapists. Werner did have a habit of making off the cuff strident remarks in internal meetings -- so it's not unusual he may have said something. But I never heard of or saw a organizational stand against therapists.
-- Caligari
Here's one. There are lots more....I'll do some digging when I have more time. One I saw not too long ago was by "Coach," (who I presume is positioning his "profession" as an alternative) DONSUL on R&R.
"......For Werner Erhard, the past had always been something to run away from, to render invisible by pretending that it barely even existed. Erhard and est for years advocated a convenient culture of amnesia, which certainly served the needs of so many thousands of his most loyal followers. In their zeal to discover the innocence of enlightenment, they savored his message of 'completing' the past by casting it into a dark abyss. Many of Erhard's followers also cheered est's satirical rejection of traditional psychotherapy for similar reasons. Most forms of therapy have aimed for tranformation by mining the individual's past. Erhard's own experiences in life were reflected in est's formula for achieving transformation by avoiding the past."
"Outrageous Betrayal," Steven Pressman, p. 271
Ellen
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caligari
I read "Outrageous Betrayal" by Pressman about four years ago. While it he did interviews and based information on that (or claims to since no references are provided), much of it is speculative. One example, is Pressman imagines Jack Rosenbergs thoughts while he's on a plane leaving Philadelphia. I find no basis for this passage of "est's satirical rejection of traditional psychotherapy" from my years of invovlement in listening to staff people and participants in est.
-- Caligari
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elenaQuote
caligari
I read "Outrageous Betrayal" by Pressman about four years ago. While it he did interviews and based information on that (or claims to since no references are provided), much of it is speculative. One example, is Pressman imagines Jack Rosenbergs thoughts while he's on a plane leaving Philadelphia. I find no basis for this passage of "est's satirical rejection of traditional psychotherapy" from my years of invovlement in listening to staff people and participants in est.
-- Caligari
So even if I went to all the trouble of searching around for citations and typing them out and posted five hundred quotes plus told you my own personal experience, it wouldn't matter or have any effect on your opinion. Thanks, I didn't feel like digging around in all those dusty old books anyway.
Ellen
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caligariQuote
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caligari
I read "Outrageous Betrayal" by Pressman about four years ago. While it he did interviews and based information on that (or claims to since no references are provided), much of it is speculative. One example, is Pressman imagines Jack Rosenbergs thoughts while he's on a plane leaving Philadelphia. I find no basis for this passage of "est's satirical rejection of traditional psychotherapy" from my years of invovlement in listening to staff people and participants in est.
-- Caligari
So even if I went to all the trouble of searching around for citations and typing them out and posted five hundred quotes plus told you my own personal experience, it wouldn't matter or have any effect on your opinion. Thanks, I didn't feel like digging around in all those dusty old books anyway.
Ellen
This is one quote from a book that is at least in part speculative. There's no source that Pressman gives for "Many of Erhard's followers also cheered est's satirical rejection of traditional psychotherapy for similar reasons. " He doesn't give a rough number for "many", where he got that information from or any backing. If there's reasonable evidence, I will consider it.
At one event Werner put on I asisted as a driver. The people attending the event that I was driving were psychologists, some or all from U.C. Berkeley. I never heard the organization disdain therapists and I assisted in a event where they were courted.
Werner's focus was/is in selling est/LE courses. I don't think he cared much who he sold to and what they did. A different purpose than L. Ron Hubbard's determining a religion.
-- Caligari
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caligari
I read "Outrageous Betrayal" by Pressman about four years ago. While it he did interviews and based information on that (or claims to since no references are provided), much of it is speculative. One example, is Pressman imagines Jack Rosenbergs thoughts while he's on a plane leaving Philadelphia. I find no basis for this passage of "est's satirical rejection of traditional psychotherapy" from my years of invovlement in listening to staff people and participants in est.
-- Caligari
So even if I went to all the trouble of searching around for citations and typing them out and posted five hundred quotes plus told you my own personal experience, it wouldn't matter or have any effect on your opinion. Thanks, I didn't feel like digging around in all those dusty old books anyway.
Ellen
This is one quote from a book that is at least in part speculative. There's no source that Pressman gives for "Many of Erhard's followers also cheered est's satirical rejection of traditional psychotherapy for similar reasons. " He doesn't give a rough number for "many", where he got that information from or any backing. If there's reasonable evidence, I will consider it.
At one event Werner put on I asisted as a driver. The people attending the event that I was driving were psychologists, some or all from U.C. Berkeley. I never heard the organization disdain therapists and I assisted in a event where they were courted.
Werner's focus was/is in selling est/LE courses. I don't think he cared much who he sold to and what they did. A different purpose than L. Ron Hubbard's determining a religion.
-- Caligari
Do you think he cared for profit? Did he sell just to prove he could sell?
That you spent time 'in that space' boggles the mind, btw.
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Hope
Unlike Scientology, est/Landmark does not attack and discount psychology and psychiatry. There's no prohibition and advice against psychiatric counseling. Actually there are at least a few Landmark pscyhologists and psychiatrists. They simply maintain the ideology of self-created, subjective reality with it's consequences.
-- Caligari
I took the Forum in 12/01 and the leader went to great lengths to mock therapy, therapists and people in therapy. He named his chair "my problems" and threw it onto his back and dragged it around all over the stage, pretending he was crying and anxious and looking for pity. Then he mocked the entire field of psychology and therapists.
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I took the Forum in 12/01 and the leader went to great lengths to mock therapy, therapists and people in therapy. He named his chair "my problems" and threw it onto his back and dragged it around all over the stage, pretending he was crying and anxious and looking for pity. Then he mocked the entire field of psychology and therapists.
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I haven't taken The Forum and have taken a few sessions of "The Landmark Forum in Action" recently. Some staff members may have a negative view of therapy now. May I ask who was the Forum Leader
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Hope
I took the Forum in 12/01 and the leader went to great lengths to mock therapy, therapists and people in therapy. He named his chair "my problems" and threw it onto his back and dragged it around all over the stage, pretending he was crying and anxious and looking for pity. Then he mocked the entire field of psychology and therapists.