[quote="midonov123"

Doesn't it mean that your life is empty and meaningless without the big and happy Landmark family? To me, it's just an emotional hook to keep you in Landmark's circle of influence.

My ex-girfriend used to tell me that if it was not for Landmark, she would probably commit suicide!!!

MD]



--Yikes! She belongs in therapy. They are doing her a gross injustice and should be prosecuted for something like practicing medicine without a license. Unfortunately, they will or probably have already convinced her that real or conventional therapy is useless, worthless, or dangerous, since she must have "claimed" to be "well" or mentally "healthy" to get into the "program." They will make her worse, all the while building barriers against her getting any real help. There's the rub. Anyone in this society has the right to refuse treatment unless they are certifiably a danger to themselves or others, which doesn't allow that brainwashing even exists. Landmark positions itself in a legal and ethical "blind-spot." They have learned well how to exploit this niche.


Ellen

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elena
[quote="midonov123"

Doesn't it mean that your life is empty and meaningless without the big and happy Landmark family? To me, it's just an emotional hook to keep you in Landmark's circle of influence.

My ex-girfriend used to tell me that if it was not for Landmark, she would probably commit suicide!!!

MD]



--Yikes! She belongs in therapy. They are doing her a gross injustice and should be prosecuted for something like practicing medicine without a license. Unfortunately, they will or probably have already convinced her that real or conventional therapy is useless, worthless, or dangerous, since she must have "claimed" to be "well" or mentally "healthy" to get into the "program." They will make her worse, all the while building barriers against her getting any real help. There's the rub. Anyone in this society has the right to refuse treatment unless they are certifiably a danger to themselves or others, which doesn't allow that brainwashing even exists. Landmark positions itself in a legal and ethical "blind-spot." They have learned well how to exploit this niche.


Ellen

Unlike Scientology, est/Landmark does not attack and discount psychology and psychiatry. There's no prohibition and advice against psychiatric counseling. Actually there are at least a few Landmark pscyhologists and psychiatrists. They simply maintain the ideology of self-created, subjective reality with it's consequences.

-- Caligari

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Doesn't it mean that your life is empty and meaningless without the big and happy Landmark family? To me, it's just an emotional hook to keep you in Landmark's circle of influence.

My ex-girfriend used to tell me that if it was not for Landmark, she would probably commit suicide!!!

The empty and meaningless pitch is a hook because if you accept the pitch you hold on to Landmark so they can give you another jolt when needed. There is a false high/joy at the point where you take on the pitch, at the time you believe it will remain for ever but it takes one bad thing happening and poof you need the jolt and then you are on the high again and you can't believe that you ever were off the high

As for the "landmark stopped me from committing suicide" I truely believe this comes about when leaders and trainee leaders do exercises that get them to think about what their futures may have been like if there was no landmark in their life. Many go to the extreme and think no landmkar = suicide. They truly believe from that point that if they hadn't done the forum they would have committed sucided.

They dont think critically so dont think about the fact that prior to Landmark they were generally sucessfull healthy well balanced people. They just truely believe with out landmark they would have committed suicide.

This is why I would say those that often do manage to leave the hooks struggle with suicidal tendencies when they initally pull away... just a thought anyway!

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Landmark positions itself in a legal and ethical "blind-spot." They have learned well how to exploit this niche.

This is so true! and they pay the legal team well to ensure that landmark is always covered.

Its why they have the documents that everyone signs on each course. Its why those people who answer "yes" to any of the mental health questions get rung by a staff member and told they shouldn't do the course. Because Landmark knows if they let people who have any mental health concerns do the course they will be opening up to liability when they have a breakdown

Landmark know their programme can be dangerous other wise there wouldn't be the need for the cover!

I still care about my ex. My biggest fear is that one day the emotions that she has been sweeping under the rug are all going to come out in the worst ways. I think of people as vesels that are meant to filled with your experiences. If you you fill it with positive and wholesome things then that is waht you will become. But if you fill it with trash and negative emotions it will soon rot you from the inside.
Has anyone ever heard of someone who repressed their emotions and bad memories who turned out ok?
If such a person exsits I will be very surprised.

Hi Reyedge,

I share your concern about those who are ruled by cults.

IMHO, if we truly cared about a person, we never stop caring about them on some level - regardless of their loss to a cult, and the related mind-screwing to us.

Singer wrote that many post-cultists never fully recover to have normal intimate relationships, even after extensive exit counseling. :(

Couldn't tell you if I've recovered or not, since even when in the cult (raised in it), i didn't fully buy-in and never shut up then. I was never fully indoctrinated; just didn't know anything else for a number of years.

IMHO, keeping things bottled up for years would not be healthy.

Children and grandchildren of Nazi concentration camp survivors tell how their elders' experience, and refusal to discuss it ever, affected their families. Maybe those concentration camp authors, who wrote of their experience rather than bottling themselves up, were healthier?

It's the chicken-and-the-egg though, were they healthier to begin with, or did writing about it help them to be healthy? :confused:

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caligari


Unlike Scientology, est/Landmark does not attack and discount psychology and psychiatry. There's no prohibition and advice against psychiatric counseling. Actually there are at least a few Landmark pscyhologists and psychiatrists. They simply maintain the ideology of self-created, subjective reality with it's consequences.

-- Caligari

They did in the beginning, according to many early accounts. Also, the "programs" were sold - perhaps implicitly - as an alternative that was less costly and less time-consuming. He must have quietly dropped that practice along with the "time-tracks," past-lives regressions, and "E-Meters." Or learned fairly quickly that licensed therapists could be "trained" to refer or recruit, and their endorsement would go a long way to "legitimizing" his garbage.


Ellen

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elena

Quote
caligari


Unlike Scientology, est/Landmark does not attack and discount psychology and psychiatry. There's no prohibition and advice against psychiatric counseling. Actually there are at least a few Landmark pscyhologists and psychiatrists. They simply maintain the ideology of self-created, subjective reality with it's consequences.

-- Caligari

They did in the beginning, according to many early accounts. Also, the "programs" were sold - perhaps implicitly - as an alternative that was less costly and less time-consuming. He must have quietly dropped that practice along with the "time-tracks," past-lives regressions, and "E-Meters." Or learned fairly quickly that licensed therapists could be "trained" to refer or recruit, and their endorsement would go a long way to "legitimizing" his garbage.


Ellen

Could you point me to a few of these references?

In the eight years I was heavily involved I never heard one disparging remark about therapists. Werner did have a habit of making off the cuff strident remarks in internal meetings -- so it's not unusual he may have said something. But I never heard of or saw a organizational stand against therapists.

-- Caligari

The role played by physical environment appears to be important--and it is complex, it cannot be reduced to just one variable. It appears to be a combination of many, many seemingly small interventions all in combination.

Robert J. Lifton calls this 'Mileau Control'--control of the physical environment.

This discussion thread has some interesting material.

[board.culteducation.com]

I, too, have heard that sales pitch. When it was first presented to me it seemed like something that I was taught: life is empty...it is up to us to fill it with experiences and knoweledge, life is meaningless...that the ultimate reality of life is death (we all die). However, the sales pitch makes it totally different. When my girlfriend told me the empty and meaningless pitch I thought that we had connected (many years ago before we dated). Now, I feel that she does not get "it" and so desperately wants to. When asked..."what does it mean?" the response is "simply that life is empty and meaningless". Absolutely no independent thought there at all.

Also, along that thread, when asked anything...like what homework did you have during the Forum she can't answer that question. Instead, she has to run to her precious notebook to "show" or defend her work. The same happens when she is asked to define a term or theory of LE. She can't...it is similar to someone who professes a huge vocabulary and intellect, but has to reference a dictionary or other book every time they are pushed.

It feels so good to be able to put this out there to you all. I am so glad I found this site.

Peace!