Sounds good! My name came from England and it came from the King family!

:) In defense of the "hopelessly incorrigible," I did Google her name and poked around online for more time than I really intended to (checking out her website, reading portions of her homepage, and then trying other search engines to turn up more info). I guess I missed the part that explained about her name being "Queen," but in my response to TPR, who first inquired about it, I did surmise that it might be her legitimate name.

Hopefully I can change my status from "hopelessly incorrigible" to "reasearch challenged." ;)

Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
LearningPoint and buddy,

Queen is her first name. But a quick Google search would have revealed that. You two are hopelessly incorrigible. lol

D of D

Reasearch challenged it is!! :o]

Now on to something a little more serious and which should have us all questioning the sanity of Pastor Mike Villamor and whether he needs another four month sabbatical/inpatient stay at a mental health asylum. I vote YES!!

It has come to my attention that the poop was thrown in the SOMA Building after Pastor Mike remarked that some in the the TPC congregation were not honoring Mike in the materiel way that one particular church member had and they should be. This individual who had honored Pastor Mike took offense at his gift being used to emotionally abuse TPC members and make them feel bad if they did not give Pastor Mike expensive gifts. The poop was thrown in response and as a prophetic statement to what is coming out of Mike Villamor's mouth.

While I am not in favor of poop throwing, I would say in this case the action was justified! Pastor Mike has lost his mind. There I said it. This guy has gone off the deep end and the people who should have his back don't. The elders and deacons should be working with Cindy Villamor to find Pastor Mike a suitable mental health inpatient placement. They should also take out a no contact order against Pastor Tony Cunningham, as this sickness that has afflicted Pastor Mike would appear to stem from Pastor Tony.

Daughter of Dorcas



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2009 06:06AM by Daughter of Dorcas.

You've got to be kidding me! Mike is having to brow beat people into honoring him? If you have to harrang honor out of people then maybe, just maybe, you're not worthy of honor. And if you're given gifts of "honor" by browbeaten people, one must ask, do they really honor you? or are they just afraid of you?

I am incredibly disappointed if this report proves to be true. What sort of person seeks honor? What sort of person brow beats honor out of people? The Bible is filled with scripture related to honor and I cannot find one that supports this sort of behavior.

Proverbs 25:27
It is not good to eat too much honey, nor is it honorable to seek one's own honor.



The Bible also has much to say about greed

Proverbs 15:27
A greedy man brings trouble to his family, but he who hates bribes will live.

Jeremiah 6:13
"From the least to the greatest, all are greedy for gain; prophets and priests alike, all practice deceit.

Jeremiah 8:10
Therefore I will give their wives to other men and their fields to new owners. From the least to the greatest, all are greedy for gain; prophets and priests alike, all practice deceit.

Habakkuk 2:4-6

4 "See, he is puffed up;
his desires are not upright—
but the righteous will live by his faith [a] -

5 indeed, wine betrays him;
he is arrogant and never at rest.
Because he is as greedy as the grave
and like death is never satisfied,
he gathers to himself all the nations
and takes captive all the peoples.

6 "Will not all of them taunt him with ridicule and scorn, saying,
" 'Woe to him who piles up stolen goods
and makes himself wealthy by extortion!

Matthew 23:25
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.How long must this go on?'

Luke 12:14-16

14Jesus replied, "Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?" 15Then he said to them, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."


1 Peter 5

To Elders and Young Men

1To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.



2 Peter 2

False Teachers and Their Destruction

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

God’s word warns against false prophets, apostles, and teachers more than once in scripture. Jesus warns us to be wary, for those who seem as harmless as sheep but are actually ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. What kind of fruit are Pastors Mike and Cindy and the Elders of TPC producing? Matthew 7:16 tells us that discerning listeners will know false messengers by their fruit, meaning the evidence of their lives speaks for itself. When the body is working to honor and bless its pastor, then I would say the fruit is rotten. Jesus came as a servant to serve the people. Jesus never cut himself off from the people. He walked and worked among them until he ascended into heaven. When was the last time Pastor Mike talked to anyone from the church that was not a part of the “inner circle”?

What should the body expect from its Pastor?

---

1. When a member of the congregation is terminally ill and the end is near a Pastor should be there with the individual and the family to pray with them and to provide support to the ill person. Pastor Mike refused to be sent for when a church deacon was near death. If he refused to fulfill the duties of a Pastor and Shepherd for a deacon, what chance does the average member of the congregation have of being poured into? What kind of fruit does this behavior exhibit – ROTTEN.

2. There has been no money to fund anything that benefits the average member of the congregation for quite some time; no benevolence fund, breakfast for the set-up crew was eliminated in January when a church member could no longer afford to fund it, . But there was money to give Pastor’s Mike and Cindy a raise so they could be “blessed”. When a member of the committee who discussed raises questioned the raise for Pastor’s Mike and Cindy the same old lame comment of “don’t you want to bless Pastor’s Mike and Cindy?” When blessing the senior pastor and his wife becomes more important than taking care of the body , what kind of fruit does this show – ROTTEN.


3. Elders who fail to step down when their house is not in order violate God’s requirements for Elders. What kind of fruit does this show – ROTTEN.

Matthew 7:16-20 (Amplified Bible)
16You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.
18A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].
19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.
20Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.

When the body labors to only benefit and bless the inner circle of any church then the fruit of that church is ROTTEN. The fruit of Pastor's Mike and Cindy is ROTTEN! The fruit of the Elder’s is ROTTEN? The body of TPC needs to become fruit inspectors and then go to God’s word when they find rotten fruit and find direction on what to do. We all must be responsible to look to our own salvation and to God's Word for guidance on how to react in any situation. The body of TPC must walk away if they find rotten fruit because no amount of trying is going to make a diseased tree bear good fruit and this is directly from the word of God. According to God’s word “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.”

If Pastor Mike is preying on his congregation for his own betterment -- so much for giving up the scuba gear!

I truly hoped that there was hope that TPC might be "fixed" and that the eyes of the pastoral staff and elders be opened and that they fall on their faces and seek forgiveness, but I think now that possibility is not possible and that only TPC closing its doors will be enough.


2 Peter:1-10

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.[c] 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature[d] and despise authority.

Daughter of Dorcas



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2009 12:32AM by Daughter of Dorcas.

Pastor Mike has hired an outside consultant to tell him what is wrong at TPC and why so many people have left. I wonder if this outside consultant will be willing to meet with those of us who have left and hear why we think that TPC, Pastor Mike, and the Elders have lost their way -- and why we think Pastor Mike has lost his sanity. I wonder if this consultant will tell Pastor Mike that no one who draws a paycheck or has a spouse that draws a paycheck from TPC should be an Elder or Deacon. I wonder if this consultant will tell Pastor Mike when a conflict of interest occurs, and it has, Elders and Deacons cannot overcome the conflict of self-interest. I wonder if the consultant will tell Pastor Mike that the office of Apostle is not open to him and it is highly suspect given his recent behavior if the spiritual gifting of Apostle has been bestowed upon him by the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ. Given Pastor Mike's propensity to only want to hear what validates his position, it is doubtful that an outside consultant will really make a difference and is really only being called in for APPEARANCES SAKE and not to effect positive change. I wonder if this consultant will tell Pastor Mike that his church is not so large and he is not so important that he can cut himself off from those who call TPC home and that any attempt to do so is wrong. The list of I wonder if the consultant will tell Pastor Mike items could be endless just based on what has appeared and been brought up and discussed on this forum. But at the end of the day, there are a pastor and deacon who have recently left who are better equipped to speak for most of us.

Daughter of Dorcas

I believe Pastor Mike needs a lower salary and SOMA should be free of charge! Pastor Mike needs to renounce Tony Cunningham and give up all the false teaching(covering of the apostle, double honoring, spiritual parenting, shepherding movement(discipleship),New Apostolic Refromation, Word-faith movement, Health and wealth prosperity gospel,positive confession false teachings, etc. Pastor mike needs to stop inviting false teachers to preach from TPWOC pulpit. Pastor Mike needs to repent and renounce of all this all in writing and in front of the church! Pastor Mike needs to pull people from leadership positions who teach any of these false teachings! Elders should not have any connection with being on the payroll! Pastor Mike needs to be held accountable by Elders who are gifted in apologetics so that this doesn't happen again! Pastor Mike will have to under go counseling from a outside sourse for long period of time! Pastor Mike needs to meet with people he has hurt and say he is sorry! Pastor Mike needs to give up all outside side jobs and just be a Pastor! I am sure I can think of more. If this happens TPWOC will be saved and you would see real revival! If not TPWOC will become real messy and things will be worse! Then Pastor Mike could leave the State and take over some other church or start his own! Or the TP people who have left could start there own church! Whatever happens TPWOC is going to be an embarrassment to Marysville! For those of you who chose to stay and fight,Praise the Lord! For those who won't change, we love you and pray for your eyes to be opened! We will never give up the fight for truth!

Does anyone know who this outside consultant is? Tony C. hired a consulting firm to revamp the image of RLc a few years back. Wouldn't it be interesting if Pastor Mike is using the same consultant? Worth looking into, I think...

Accountability to God is vital, but people develop their impressions of individuals and organizations by looking at their outward appearances (1 Samuel 16:7). The Apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians 8:21, “For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men.” Or, as the New American Standard puts it in verses 20 and 21, “taking precaution that no one should discredit us in our administration of this generous gift, for we have regard for what is honorable, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.” This means the body of the church. In this case it should mean the body of Turning Point Church and World Outreach Center. The Elders hold no more oversight power than any member of the church. So if Pastor Mike has hired a consultant that helps troubled churches figure out what is wrong and put them back on the narrow path, that consultant is working for the average “butt in the seat” (Pastor Mike’s phrase not mine). But the phrase is a reflection on how Pastor Mike views the body of Turning Point Church. That is a problem which will need addressing. Openness, transparency, and dedication to being a servant of our Lord by TPC Leadership need to be a hallmark of any change. A new group of Elders needs to be selected and NOT by any current inner circle either.

So let’s throw out some words that show the impressions and appearances that others have about Pastor Mike and his inner circle. Let’s start with self-centered, selfish, childish, and willful. Not qualities that anyone wants in a senior pastor or church elders. Hypocrites, liars, and self-interested; also not characteristics that anyone wants to see in church leadership. Pastor Mike, you and your inner circle created this mess.

So to Pastor Mike and the Elders; if you are really interested in knowing how to fix TPC and get it back on solid ground, Pastor Mike shouldn’t make fun of the people he has hurt, disillusioned about Christ, and just plain used very badly. All of us who voted against you and the elders with our feet and left were more than just wallets and checkbooks. We were members of God’s Army and you misused and abused us.

Have this consultant private message me or any other member of this forum , I am sure a meeting could be arranged at which time we would share our unbiased views about the un-biblical apostolic direction that Mike wants to head down. The lack of accountability, nepotism, and other problems that we wanted addressed but couldn’t speak about because no one dared to question without being put in their place or called divisive.

We will be happy to share about the unhealthy outside relationships which Mike has entered into and which have seriously wounded TPC – a church that once made the enemy tremble with fear every time two or more members gathered in the Lords name.

A consultant is only as good as the information they are given and the overall picture they are allowed to see of what the problem really is. If this is a serious attempt to make the enemy quake with fear, then all those who left should be invited to help TPC. However, if this is just an attempt to do something merely for appearances without any real attempt at making meaningful changes, well that will become evident and people will form impressions and opinions about TPC based on their failure to do the right thing. The outcome even more people will leave TPC until once morning it will just be Mike and his inner circle. Then the old building will be big enough to go back to and it won't be necessary to pay money to the school district anymore and that would mean less money going out every month. From that point of view I guess there is an upside to Mike's refusal to look beyond his own self-centered ambition.

Daughter of Dorcas

A TESTIMONY FROM ONE PASTOR TO ANOTHER

For many years, I was a part of what has been called “the Word of Faith” movement within the Charismatic Church. I was the ultimate junkie. I would spend my days and nights listening to faith teachers.

I was really extreme. Because I came out of a severe emotional breakdown I immersed myself in this world of the “Word of Faith” message.

It is true that God’s Word in our mouths produces mightily in our lives what He has promised in His Word for us. While there are many things that are correct in this “theology”, there are other things that I do not now believe are correct.

At that time, I was traveling around the world ministering, but inside I felt more and more dissatisfied. I see now that it was a “divine dissatisfaction”. I started praying in the Holy Spirit in the supernatural languages of tongues night and day. I was hungry for more. Somehow, I knew that there was something that I was missing.

So I started to eat the Word of God. What happened was that I began to change. God, by the Holy Spirit, started changing me profoundly from the inside out. And I wasn’t happy with most of the changes, either. It got to the place where I couldn’t just listen to the mixture being preached at conferences and church services anymore. You see, as a musician, I began to hear and recognize the sound of God’s voice and resonance in His Word. What I was hearing from the pulpits was something different. It didn’t have the same resonance and sound as the Master’s voice. What was even more troubling, what I was hearing preached and taught was sounding more and more skewed and twisted. The Bible majors on subjects like the cross, denying self, holiness, the fear of the Lord, consecration, love, purity, hell, and separation from the flesh and the world, missions, caring for the poor and needy, putting the gospel first and going into all the world to make disciples of the nations. It isn’t about joining a country club and living selfishly only for this life. It is all about the life to come. These subjects seemed to be avoided like the plague in the messages I was hearing.

Then God began to purge things out of me like the love of money, selfish ambition, and my desire to build a ministry “empire” down here on earth to impress everybody. Now, this became a big problem. Unfortunately, I had begun to live too high financially. I had to bring in thousands and thousands of dollars each month just to keep up and pay my bills. I had gotten myself into a financial trap because of greed and luxury. The financial “monster” had to be fed every month. I was exhausted, and was totally out of balance. Because of my gifts, I was merchandising the anointing. My family was neglected and my marriage was in trouble. I finally did something radical: I divorced money. I had been married to money. Money had ruled my life, not Yeshua. I was so beat up by ministry and all the abuse I had been through, that I had to quit it all. So I did.

Sadly, my wife could not divorce money with me. She had gotten used to the big house, the luxury cars, the nice neighborhood, not working, and all the perks which went with the upper middle class white-washed, “Christian faith culture”. Now, I realize that I was to blame in many areas for leading my family into that. But, I still needed help. I was really UNABLE to produce at that level anymore, no matter how much I wanted to do so. It was over, and that was that. She refused to go with me if it meant that I wouldn’t provide for her at the level she was used to. In other words, when I divorced money, she didn’t. Instead, our marriage failed. So, on top of the exhaustion, the depression, and my inability to travel and minister, I was forced to leave my wife, my children, and my home.

The Lord said to me, “You must leave. If you don’t, you are going to die and you will not fulfill your calling.”

I was broken hearted and completely hopeless in my soul. I felt like such a failure that I don’t even have the words to describe it. I did finally leave after a year and a half of trying to save my home and marriage. I felt abandoned and betrayed by God. I had pressed in and prayed, but instead of things getting better, my whole life was destroyed. Everything that I had loved and had meant anything to me at all had been ripped out of my life. I had totally failed, in my own estimation. Since that time, only by God’s mercies and grace, I have made a gradual uphill climb to restoration.

However, I am a completely different person. My priorities have totally changed. I still regret many mistakes and sins that I have done, but one thing is clear to me: God is the only One that I can say has kept me and not myself or anything I have done. You see, I quit the ministry or I should say that I tried to quit. God wouldn’t let me quit. He opened a huge door to Asia in May of 2004 through a wonderful man of God, Dr. Ernest Chan of Agape Renewal Center (www.agapecenter.net) and I have been back in ministry ever since. Actually, I never could totally quit. In my darkest time, still, the Lord would use me. Nevertheless, I was so angry at God! I didn’t even want to minister and the anointing was twice as powerful as before.

Now, according to my understanding before, the closer I got to God, and the more “faith” I had, the better and more victorious my life should be. But, my dilemma was, that the closer I got to God, the more my life got worse, and the less victory manifested around me. This was very hard for me to understand. The truth is, I still battle with depression almost daily. Why Lord? Must I suffer like this for the rest of my days?
I still believe firmly in healing, in prosperity, in victory and the abundant life that God promises in the Bible. But, I also see another side to things. First of all, we are called to follow the EXAMPLE of Jesus. From my reading of the New Testament, they all suffered with the Lord’s grace working mightily in and through them, IN SPITE of their suffering.

The Bible describes a completely different life than what all the faith teachers taught me. It isn’t a life of luxury. It isn’t about “becoming a better you”. It isn’t finding yourself, or getting more blessed, or more healed, or more fulfilled, or living with “a millionaire mentality”. That did NOT come from the Bible. My Bible reads exactly the opposite: Yeshua said, “Lose your life to find it. Deny yourself and forsake all and follow Me.” Paul says, I DIE daily so that Messiah can live in me. He rejoiced in all his suffering. He wasn’t delivered out of suffering. His anointing and obedience to God actually brought on more suffering. It did nothing to stop it. It seems the modern church’s goal for believers is to be happy, healthy, wealthy, comfortable, and to have a perfect life free from as much conflict and opposition as possible down here. The goal is to build a big empire down here with your wealth so that you can live like a king. Enjoy your life, be fulfilled, satiate every lust and desire and STILL go to heaven! Beloved, THAT is not what the Bible teaches. It is a false message. It can never conform you to Messiah’s image, because that isn’t the way He is.

I have total faith for God’s abundant life here on this earth. But, what is that abundant life? It is a total paradox, actually. It is a life of moment by moment obedience. It is a life of denying yourself, taking up your cross and following Yeshua. It is dying daily so that He can fully live in you. It is loving others more than yourself and sacrificing everything to express that love into your world. It is forgiving over and over even when you have been betrayed and broken, hurt and abused, abandoned and forsaken by those you love the most. When you live this way, everyone in your world can see that Yeshua is real, especially your enemies.

My dearly beloved brothers and sisters in Messiah, I have learned from my experience that this is the REAL Christian life. Any other is a counterfeit one. That is what the scriptures teach.

All my love in our Messiah!
Maurice Sklar [source->www.mauricesklar.com ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2009 11:35PM by Painfuljourney.