Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
Hello whatajoke,

Is it better to hold on to hurt, bitterness, and hard feelings or to move on, forgive, and live the life the Lord died for us to have trusting that he will deal with the ones who have hurt us? Holding onto bitterness and hurt is a victory for the enemy. I for one do not want to give the enemy victory over anything in my life. Giving forgiveness for the hurt and disappointment we have suffered and putting this whole mess behind us -- and looking to the Lord to provide our vindication for what we have gone through is the way.

Lamenting the false teachings and the lavish life styles of those church leaders we once loved and respected does not do any of us any good. However, the Lord can and will deal with them. We are responsible for looking to God's Word for our answers and many of us have. Irregardless of TPC's direction and teaching, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. We will work to be a reflection of his glory and grace. To do this we must give our hurt and disillusionment to God and move on.

Mourning what we personally lost and what was lost when TPC leadership lost their way was fine for a season -- but that season is over and it is time to move on to more positive outlooks. Harboring hurt, bitterness, and hard feelings does nothing to make us better Christians. I prefer to turn this matter over to God and let him deal with those in leadership at TPC because he can do far more and far better at exposing false teachings than any poster to this forum.

Someone on this forum once pointed out to me that TPC leadership could care less about the people who left and their opinion or talking to any of us in a forum where we could confront them in love. That was hard to hear, but it is the truth. So with that being reality, and with God's help, we all need to move on and look to get our own lives back on track.

Bottom line is you can hold onto your anger or you can exchange it for the Lord's peace.

Could you follow that?

Daughter of Dorcas

Well D of D,

We all want to thank you for your contribution to the forum.
We are all happy for your growth and healing; we celebrate with you your new found direction.
And we are rejoicing that you have come to a place where you have been able to let go of your anger and exchange it for a peace that passes all understanding. Isn't God good and faithful to his children?


Please know that many here on this forum are not stuck in anger. Several were never motivated by anger but by a desire to bring light to a heart breaking and, quite literally, dangerous setting at TPC. Most realize that TPc will not address the people who post on this forum. Their desire is to warn others who may be still attending and questioning or those who may be searching for a church and are considering TPc.

It sounds as though you are in the process of saying goodbye to all of us here at the forum. We will miss your insights and encouragement.
Thank you for all that you brought to this topic and all that you have given to our lives. You are welcome to return any time.

TPR

Just to make it clear, I saw the title of this thread not being, "Debate the Issues" or "Share your Testimony" but "TPC Leadership repent, seek forgiveness and tell the truth".

In saying this I want to clarify that my prior post was not an attack, but an attempt to share the testimony of another Word of Faith pastor who have been in tpc’s position. It was my hope that leadership could identify with this man and the message would be sent that they are not alone. The casualties from the Word of Faith are endless, not just at tpc but around the globe. Countless groups are entangled with the luring appeal of the Word of Faith. But since Word of Faith has the same root, it always leads to the same twisted vine and luring, but consequently rotten fruit. The Faith movement tickles the ears with promises of “growth’ and “advancement”. I don’t disagree with the hopes of this promise, but if we do not adhere to the full Word of the Lord it is easy for any man to be deceived. It happened in the early church and it still happens today. None of us are exempt from this temptation to be deceived. Mans hearts are wicked above all else and God allows man’s hearts to be tested by various trials to determine whats in them. Sadly, by the time we are drawn into these wells without water there is no easy way to escape.

We are each responsible to search the scriptures daily and speak truth no matter the cost. We are accountable to what we know! (Pastor Jackie is a remarkable example of this bravery)

The TRUE gospel advanced in the early church because people did as Pastor Jackie did and stood for truth. They were willing to die for it. False gospels since Acts follow the same old pattern as Word of Faith. There is nothing new under the sun. They esteem man, devalue God, lead men away from God, fail to embrace the full Word of God, create pride, abound in flattering words, and lure with false promises. They present a different Jesus – a rich Jesus, a weak Jesus, a dependent on man Jesus etc. etc.

Man’s continual attempts at "creating" new, revelatory, “better” doctrine from the never changing Word of God is not that shocking. Man has always done it. They always want the credit instead of giving it to God. Yet man keeps trying.

Just for the record, contrary to the Word of Faith

- Christ did not have to get saved, die Spiritually or be tormented in hell for three days by demons. (Hebrews 9:22). Christ said, "It is finished" (John 19:30), which translates tetelistai meaning "paid for in full." Payment for our sins took place on the cross (Matt. 26:28; 1 Pet. 2:24; Col. 1:20-22; Heb. 10:10, 12, 14, 19 20). There was nothing more to pay beyond the cross (Heb. 10:18).

- Jesus and His disciples were not rich. Christ called us to give up, not get material possessions.

- God is the only One who ever created reality by the power of His Word (Genesis 1:3). He does not have or need "faith." Faith is depending on something outside ourselves. If God depends upon something outside Himself, He is not Supreme and therefore not God. Man, not God, is in need of faith. The faith referenced in Mark 11:22 and Hebrews 11:3 is clearly "the faith which has God as its object," not "the kind of faith that God has."

- We are not “little Gods” (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6) Only God is divine. (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalms 8:6-8). Satan tempted Eve in the garden with the same old lie, “You will be like God”. (Genesis 3:5)

- God is still sovereign and does not need man’s “help”. We are “mere” men in need of a savior. We are dependent, not independent from God.

- God's grace is enough.

I praise God that the gospel came to us because Paul confronted the heresy of his day, because Jesus challenged those making money off the church and because Stephen died for what he believed in. However, each must heal in their time and in their own way for anger only gives the enemy a foothold. We must love above all else and we must each move to forgiveness as each of us were forgiven by our merciful Savior!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 03:45AM by Painfuljourney.

Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
Hello whatajoke,

Is it better to hold on to hurt, bitterness, and hard feelings or to move on, forgive, and live the life the Lord died for us to have trusting that he will deal with the ones who have hurt us? Holding onto bitterness and hurt is a victory for the enemy. I for one do not want to give the enemy victory over anything in my life. Giving forgiveness for the hurt and disappointment we have suffered and putting this whole mess behind us -- and looking to the Lord to provide our vindication for what we have gone through is the way.

Lamenting the false teachings and the lavish life styles of those church leaders we once loved and respected does not do any of us any good. However, the Lord can and will deal with them. We are responsible for looking to God's Word for our answers and many of us have. Irregardless of TPC's direction and teaching, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. We will work to be a reflection of his glory and grace. To do this we must give our hurt and disillusionment to God and move on.

Mourning what we personally lost and what was lost when TPC leadership lost their way was fine for a season -- but that season is over and it is time to move on to more positive outlooks. Harboring hurt, bitterness, and hard feelings does nothing to make us better Christians. I prefer to turn this matter over to God and let him deal with those in leadership at TPC because he can do far more and far better at exposing false teachings than any poster to this forum.

Someone on this forum once pointed out to me that TPC leadership could care less about the people who left and their opinion or talking to any of us in a forum where we could confront them in love. That was hard to hear, but it is the truth. So with that being reality, and with God's help, we all need to move on and look to get our own lives back on track.

Bottom line is you can hold onto your anger or you can exchange it for the Lord's peace.

Could you follow that?

Daughter of Dorcas

Whats the point dod? not really following the point. who are u talking about and who do u think has not moved on or got their lives on track. It is pretty self riteous to come on here and preach and then assume that the people on here have not moved on or have their life in order. just because they are on here doesnt mean that they r still messed up from the church. for some of us there is a greater good in being on here and continuing to warn others. But tnen again dod u r doing quite a good job of making this thread about your preaching and distracting from the topic at hand. so, no i do not follow. What u speak of above is spoken in gross generalities and u have brought no new, great revelations from your word. I think u r making your own judgements and assumptions about the people on here.

LearningPoint –

Thanks for your input and continue willingness to press in for truth. I understand your point completely and have always respected your stance for truth.

You are right, the Bible never calls for divorce over money matters. It does however require professed believers to put God above money, family, opinions of others, comfort and virtually everything else. It was this willingness that drew me to read his testimony and post it. In his example I understood that divorce was the unfortunate consequence of years of trying to pick up the broken pieces. (I could be wrong) The post was not in any way a call for or condoning of such practices.

And although this man ventured into another cultic movement, The Apostolic Movement, (which is often the case with people who leave cultic atmospheres) I admire this man's willingness to publicly risk it all and renounce what he found to be falsehood and corrupt at the time. This man might not have been the best example to give, however, I hope it was able to shed some light on the false foundation and the universal damage Word of Faith inevitably brings!

D of D,

I respect your plea for forgiveness. Thank you. It was a timely and needed message to us all.

PFJ

Thanks for the clarification, Painfuljourney. You're a gracious soul.

I sometimes misunderstand when I'm trying to understand. Your explanation was/is just what was needed, especially since some were thinking it was your personal testimony. I appreciate your taking the time to expound.

I hope you had a great Easter! Isn't Easter the best? It's like a spiritual new year celebration for the believer.

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Painfuljourney
LearningPoint –

Thanks for your input and continue willingness to press in for truth. I understand your point completely and have always respected your stance for truth.

You are right, the Bible never calls for divorce over money matters. It does however require professed believers to put God above money, family, opinions of others, comfort and virtually everything else. It was this willingness that drew me to read his testimony and post it. In his example I understood that divorce was the unfortunate consequence of years of trying to pick up the broken pieces. (I could be wrong) The post was not in any way a call for or condoning of such practices.

And although this man ventured into another cultic movement, The Apostolic Movement, (which is often the case with people who leave cultic atmospheres) I admire this man's willingness to publicly risk it all and renounce what he found to be falsehood and corrupt at the time. This man might not have been the best example to give, however, I hope it was able to shed some light on the false foundation and the universal damage Word of Faith inevitably brings!

Hey, everyone! See the bold typeface of this note from Painfuljourney. This is no joke; Word of Faith adherents believe these false ideas. It's where TP is heading. Time to bail out of the sinking ship!!!

Quote
Painfuljourney
Just to make it clear, I saw the title of this thread not being, "Debate the Issues" or "Share your Testimony" but "TPC Leadership repent, seek forgiveness and tell the truth".

In saying this I want to clarify that my prior post was not an attack, but an attempt to share the testimony of another Word of Faith pastor who have been in tpc’s position. It was my hope that leadership could identify with this man and the message would be sent that they are not alone. The casualties from the Word of Faith are endless, not just at tpc but around the globe. Countless groups are entangled with the luring appeal of the Word of Faith. But since Word of Faith has the same root, it always leads to the same twisted vine and luring, but consequently rotten fruit. The Faith movement tickles the ears with promises of “growth’ and “advancement”. I don’t disagree with the hopes of this promise, but if we do not adhere to the full Word of the Lord it is easy for any man to be deceived. It happened in the early church and it still happens today. None of us are exempt from this temptation to be deceived. Mans hearts are wicked above all else and God allows man’s hearts to be tested by various trials to determine whats in them. Sadly, by the time we are drawn into these wells without water there is no easy way to escape.

We are each responsible to search the scriptures daily and speak truth no matter the cost. We are accountable to what we know! (Pastor Jackie is a remarkable example of this bravery)

The TRUE gospel advanced in the early church because people did as Pastor Jackie did and stood for truth. They were willing to die for it. False gospels since Acts follow the same old pattern as Word of Faith. There is nothing new under the sun. They esteem man, devalue God, lead men away from God, fail to embrace the full Word of God, create pride, abound in flattering words, and lure with false promises. They present a different Jesus – a rich Jesus, a weak Jesus, a dependent on man Jesus etc. etc.

Man’s continual attempts at "creating" new, revelatory, “better” doctrine from the never changing Word of God is not that shocking. Man has always done it. They always want the credit instead of giving it to God. Yet man keeps trying.

Just for the record, contrary to the Word of Faith

- Christ did not have to get saved, die Spiritually or be tormented in hell for three days by demons. (Hebrews 9:22). Christ said, "It is finished" (John 19:30), which translates tetelistai meaning "paid for in full." Payment for our sins took place on the cross (Matt. 26:28; 1 Pet. 2:24; Col. 1:20-22; Heb. 10:10, 12, 14, 19 20). There was nothing more to pay beyond the cross (Heb. 10:18).

- Jesus and His disciples were not rich. Christ called us to give up, not get material possessions.

- God is the only One who ever created reality by the power of His Word (Genesis 1:3). He does not have or need "faith." Faith is depending on something outside ourselves. If God depends upon something outside Himself, He is not Supreme and therefore not God. Man, not God, is in need of faith. The faith referenced in Mark 11:22 and Hebrews 11:3 is clearly "the faith which has God as its object," not "the kind of faith that God has."

- We are not “little Gods” (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6) Only God is divine. (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalms 8:6-8). Satan tempted Eve in the garden with the same old lie, “You will be like God”. (Genesis 3:5)

- God is still sovereign and does not need man’s “help”. We are “mere” men in need of a savior. We are dependent, not independent from God.

- God's grace is enough.

I praise God that the gospel came to us because Paul confronted the heresy of his day, because Jesus challenged those making money off the church and because Stephen died for what he believed in. However, each must heal in their time and in their own way for anger only gives the enemy a foothold. We must love above all else and we must each move to forgiveness as each of us were forgiven by our merciful Savior!!

Wherefromhere:

I didn't know this. I don't know if there is any relation between Earnest Chan and Samuel Chan. I'll try to look into it. Chan's a pretty common Chinese last name though, I think. If you find anything out, let us know. Thanks!

LP

Quote
wherefromhere
It is samuel chan they have hired learningpoint.

I did some poking around about Dr. Chan, because I had heard something about the Agape Renewal Ministry in my reading elsewhere, and I wanted to refresh my memory. Sadly, the man who wrote the testimony you posted has traded in his Prosperity/Word-Faith false doctrine for the false doctrine of the New Apostolic Reformation. His hero, Dr. Chan, is a member of the ICA (International Coalition of Apostles), as listed on their membership roster online:

International Coalition of Apostles
Membership Directory
December 2008


Ernest Chan
Agape Renewal Ministry
Pomona CA
Web: www.agapecenter.net

Hello All,

I have no information on the consultant hired by TPC give them advice.

However, I did find out that Artistry Marketing is the firm that Pastor Tony Cunningham hired for branding purposes a few years ago. I was told that they did provide some suggestions to Pastor Tony chose to use and others he chose to ignore. Perhaps someone can figure out if Artistry Marketing and the new consultant have anything in common.

Consultant reports and statistics have two things in common, I have found over the years, you can make them say whatever you want or whatever you are willing to pay to get the answer you want to support your position. It remains to be seen if this is what TPC will do.

Daughter of Dorcas

Let me clarify...Word-Faith adherents believe the OPPOSITE of the bold type (below)--they believe false ideas that are the antithesis of these truths. I think everyone knew what I meant, but I didn't want to add to the confusion that false doctrines bring on their very own. Sorry about that.

Quote
LearningPoint
Hey, everyone! See the bold typeface of this note from Painfuljourney. This is no joke; Word of Faith adherents believe these false ideas. It's where TP is heading. Time to bail out of the sinking ship!!!

Quote
Painfuljourney
Just to make it clear, I saw the title of this thread not being, "Debate the Issues" or "Share your Testimony" but "TPC Leadership repent, seek forgiveness and tell the truth".

In saying this I want to clarify that my prior post was not an attack, but an attempt to share the testimony of another Word of Faith pastor who have been in tpc’s position. It was my hope that leadership could identify with this man and the message would be sent that they are not alone. The casualties from the Word of Faith are endless, not just at tpc but around the globe. Countless groups are entangled with the luring appeal of the Word of Faith. But since Word of Faith has the same root, it always leads to the same twisted vine and luring, but consequently rotten fruit. The Faith movement tickles the ears with promises of “growth’ and “advancement”. I don’t disagree with the hopes of this promise, but if we do not adhere to the full Word of the Lord it is easy for any man to be deceived. It happened in the early church and it still happens today. None of us are exempt from this temptation to be deceived. Mans hearts are wicked above all else and God allows man’s hearts to be tested by various trials to determine whats in them. Sadly, by the time we are drawn into these wells without water there is no easy way to escape.

We are each responsible to search the scriptures daily and speak truth no matter the cost. We are accountable to what we know! (Pastor Jackie is a remarkable example of this bravery)

The TRUE gospel advanced in the early church because people did as Pastor Jackie did and stood for truth. They were willing to die for it. False gospels since Acts follow the same old pattern as Word of Faith. There is nothing new under the sun. They esteem man, devalue God, lead men away from God, fail to embrace the full Word of God, create pride, abound in flattering words, and lure with false promises. They present a different Jesus – a rich Jesus, a weak Jesus, a dependent on man Jesus etc. etc.

Man’s continual attempts at "creating" new, revelatory, “better” doctrine from the never changing Word of God is not that shocking. Man has always done it. They always want the credit instead of giving it to God. Yet man keeps trying.

Just for the record, contrary to the Word of Faith

- Christ did not have to get saved, die Spiritually or be tormented in hell for three days by demons. (Hebrews 9:22). Christ said, "It is finished" (John 19:30), which translates tetelistai meaning "paid for in full." Payment for our sins took place on the cross (Matt. 26:28; 1 Pet. 2:24; Col. 1:20-22; Heb. 10:10, 12, 14, 19 20). There was nothing more to pay beyond the cross (Heb. 10:18).

- Jesus and His disciples were not rich. Christ called us to give up, not get material possessions.

- God is the only One who ever created reality by the power of His Word (Genesis 1:3). He does not have or need "faith." Faith is depending on something outside ourselves. If God depends upon something outside Himself, He is not Supreme and therefore not God. Man, not God, is in need of faith. The faith referenced in Mark 11:22 and Hebrews 11:3 is clearly "the faith which has God as its object," not "the kind of faith that God has."

- We are not “little Gods” (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6) Only God is divine. (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalms 8:6-8). Satan tempted Eve in the garden with the same old lie, “You will be like God”. (Genesis 3:5)

- God is still sovereign and does not need man’s “help”. We are “mere” men in need of a savior. We are dependent, not independent from God.

- God's grace is enough.

I praise God that the gospel came to us because Paul confronted the heresy of his day, because Jesus challenged those making money off the church and because Stephen died for what he believed in. However, each must heal in their time and in their own way for anger only gives the enemy a foothold. We must love above all else and we must each move to forgiveness as each of us were forgiven by our merciful Savior!!