Painfuljourney, can you can you explain why you included this testimony? You didn't comment on it. I'm curious to know your "take" on it.
I did some poking around about Dr. Chan, because I had heard something about the Agape Renewal Ministry in my reading elsewhere, and I wanted to refresh my memory. Sadly, the man who wrote the testimony you posted has traded in his Prosperity/Word-Faith false doctrine for the false doctrine of the New Apostolic Reformation. His hero, Dr. Chan, is a member of the ICA (International Coalition of Apostles), as listed on their membership roster online:
International Coalition of Apostles
Membership Directory
December 2008Ernest Chan
Agape Renewal Ministry
Pomona CA
Web: www.agapecenter.net
I don't say this to discredit any truth in the testimony, but only to demonstrate how we can trade in one lie for another. I urge everyone on the forum to read up on these movements and to be alert. This one in particular is permeating the evangelical church and is going to suck a large portion of the church into following after mere men who will claim to be God's own voice, directing and leading the church, but who will be exalting themselves in a very subtle but strong and effective way (which they are already doing). This Apostolic movement is the movement Mike is wanting to be a part of, as well. The ones leading it believe their word is tantamount to the Word of God. Those who oppose them and point to scripture are said to have "a religious spirit." BEWARE OF TRADING IN ONE FALSEHOOD FOR ANOTHER.
Jesus told us to be shrewd as serpents, innocent as doves, so as we look for truth in what's out there, it's good to also have the old "lie detector" turned on. As I was reading the testimony, I had this RED FLAG! Why did the man giving the testimony have to "give up" his wife and family? If they left him because of the money issue, that's one thing; if he left them, that's another. The way he words it, leads one to believe he walked away from his famiy "for Jesus sake." Can anyone show me in scripture where it's OK for a husband to leave his wife and children because his wife disagrees with him about money?
I don't mean to be hyper critical, but the lies are SO SUBTLE, and we just HAVE to be ready to stand ONLY in the truth. It's the reality of our time, and if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived, because the lies are so well packaged. But our job is to be alert, sober, vigilant.
I just used this testimony for a case in point. I'm not picking on you, Painfuljourney. I'm really grateful for you and for what you bring here. The guy's rejection of the Word-Faith doctrine is not lost on me. He did well to see through it, and his obeservations on that score are good.
Thanks for putting up with my scrutiny. I was fooled once; by God's grace, His Word, and His Spirit I trust it won't happen again...to any of us.
Happy Easter, all! He is risen!!Quote
Painfuljourney
A TESTIMONY FROM ONE PASTOR TO ANOTHER
For many years, I was a part of what has been called “the Word of Faith” movement within the Charismatic Church. I was the ultimate junkie. I would spend my days and nights listening to faith teachers.
I was really extreme. Because I came out of a severe emotional breakdown I immersed myself in this world of the “Word of Faith” message.
It is true that God’s Word in our mouths produces mightily in our lives what He has promised in His Word for us. While there are many things that are correct in this “theology”, there are other things that I do not now believe are correct.
At that time, I was traveling around the world ministering, but inside I felt more and more dissatisfied. I see now that it was a “divine dissatisfaction”. I started praying in the Holy Spirit in the supernatural languages of tongues night and day. I was hungry for more. Somehow, I knew that there was something that I was missing.
So I started to eat the Word of God. What happened was that I began to change. God, by the Holy Spirit, started changing me profoundly from the inside out. And I wasn’t happy with most of the changes, either. It got to the place where I couldn’t just listen to the mixture being preached at conferences and church services anymore. You see, as a musician, I began to hear and recognize the sound of God’s voice and resonance in His Word. What I was hearing from the pulpits was something different. It didn’t have the same resonance and sound as the Master’s voice. What was even more troubling, what I was hearing preached and taught was sounding more and more skewed and twisted. The Bible majors on subjects like the cross, denying self, holiness, the fear of the Lord, consecration, love, purity, hell, and separation from the flesh and the world, missions, caring for the poor and needy, putting the gospel first and going into all the world to make disciples of the nations. It isn’t about joining a country club and living selfishly only for this life. It is all about the life to come. These subjects seemed to be avoided like the plague in the messages I was hearing.
Then God began to purge things out of me like the love of money, selfish ambition, and my desire to build a ministry “empire” down here on earth to impress everybody. Now, this became a big problem. Unfortunately, I had begun to live too high financially. I had to bring in thousands and thousands of dollars each month just to keep up and pay my bills. I had gotten myself into a financial trap because of greed and luxury. The financial “monster” had to be fed every month. I was exhausted, and was totally out of balance. Because of my gifts, I was merchandising the anointing. My family was neglected and my marriage was in trouble. I finally did something radical: I divorced money. I had been married to money. Money had ruled my life, not Yeshua. I was so beat up by ministry and all the abuse I had been through, that I had to quit it all. So I did.
Sadly, my wife could not divorce money with me. She had gotten used to the big house, the luxury cars, the nice neighborhood, not working, and all the perks which went with the upper middle class white-washed, “Christian faith culture”. Now, I realize that I was to blame in many areas for leading my family into that. But, I still needed help. I was really UNABLE to produce at that level anymore, no matter how much I wanted to do so. It was over, and that was that. She refused to go with me if it meant that I wouldn’t provide for her at the level she was used to. In other words, when I divorced money, she didn’t. Instead, our marriage failed. So, on top of the exhaustion, the depression, and my inability to travel and minister, I was forced to leave my wife, my children, and my home.
The Lord said to me, “You must leave. If you don’t, you are going to die and you will not fulfill your calling.”
I was broken hearted and completely hopeless in my soul. I felt like such a failure that I don’t even have the words to describe it. I did finally leave after a year and a half of trying to save my home and marriage. I felt abandoned and betrayed by God. I had pressed in and prayed, but instead of things getting better, my whole life was destroyed. Everything that I had loved and had meant anything to me at all had been ripped out of my life. I had totally failed, in my own estimation. Since that time, only by God’s mercies and grace, I have made a gradual uphill climb to restoration.
However, I am a completely different person. My priorities have totally changed. I still regret many mistakes and sins that I have done, but one thing is clear to me: God is the only One that I can say has kept me and not myself or anything I have done. You see, I quit the ministry or I should say that I tried to quit. God wouldn’t let me quit. He opened a huge door to Asia in May of 2004 through a wonderful man of God, Dr. Ernest Chan of Agape Renewal Center (www.agapecenter.net) and I have been back in ministry ever since. Actually, I never could totally quit. In my darkest time, still, the Lord would use me. Nevertheless, I was so angry at God! I didn’t even want to minister and the anointing was twice as powerful as before.
Now, according to my understanding before, the closer I got to God, and the more “faith” I had, the better and more victorious my life should be. But, my dilemma was, that the closer I got to God, the more my life got worse, and the less victory manifested around me. This was very hard for me to understand. The truth is, I still battle with depression almost daily. Why Lord? Must I suffer like this for the rest of my days?
I still believe firmly in healing, in prosperity, in victory and the abundant life that God promises in the Bible. But, I also see another side to things. First of all, we are called to follow the EXAMPLE of Jesus. From my reading of the New Testament, they all suffered with the Lord’s grace working mightily in and through them, IN SPITE of their suffering.
The Bible describes a completely different life than what all the faith teachers taught me. It isn’t a life of luxury. It isn’t about “becoming a better you”. It isn’t finding yourself, or getting more blessed, or more healed, or more fulfilled, or living with “a millionaire mentality”. That did NOT come from the Bible. My Bible reads exactly the opposite: Yeshua said, “Lose your life to find it. Deny yourself and forsake all and follow Me.” Paul says, I DIE daily so that Messiah can live in me. He rejoiced in all his suffering. He wasn’t delivered out of suffering. His anointing and obedience to God actually brought on more suffering. It did nothing to stop it. It seems the modern church’s goal for believers is to be happy, healthy, wealthy, comfortable, and to have a perfect life free from as much conflict and opposition as possible down here. The goal is to build a big empire down here with your wealth so that you can live like a king. Enjoy your life, be fulfilled, satiate every lust and desire and STILL go to heaven! Beloved, THAT is not what the Bible teaches. It is a false message. It can never conform you to Messiah’s image, because that isn’t the way He is.
I have total faith for God’s abundant life here on this earth. But, what is that abundant life? It is a total paradox, actually. It is a life of moment by moment obedience. It is a life of denying yourself, taking up your cross and following Yeshua. It is dying daily so that He can fully live in you. It is loving others more than yourself and sacrificing everything to express that love into your world. It is forgiving over and over even when you have been betrayed and broken, hurt and abused, abandoned and forsaken by those you love the most. When you live this way, everyone in your world can see that Yeshua is real, especially your enemies.
My dearly beloved brothers and sisters in Messiah, I have learned from my experience that this is the REAL Christian life. Any other is a counterfeit one. That is what the scriptures teach.
All my love in our Messiah!
Maurice Sklar [source->www.mauricesklar.com ]