My husband and I attended Turning Point Church for five years. When I finally attended the 101 class about the vision and direction of the TPC with Pastor Mike we had been attending TPC for a couple of years, I was seriously offended when Pastor Mike proceeded to talk about “putting butts in seats” and that TPC “would be the most expensive church we would ever belong to.” I left midway through the class. In hindsight we should have left then, but we stayed because of our relationships with other TPC members and members of the staff. We were plugged in at Turning Point.

We noted a negative change over the past few years, but since we did not hear anything from other members, we thought the elephant sitting in the sanctuary we saw might be a mirage. Then Pastor Jackie tendered her resignation immediately after being reinstated as an elder. We knew something was wrong and it was not just a simple difference of opinion for Pastor Jackie to leave her staff position and TPC entirely. The elephant could no longer be ignored.

Not wanting to be accused of gossiping or of being divisive, we sat down and devised questions which were very straight forward and direct. Most merely required a yes or no answer. Then we started investigating and asking questions. We did not like the information we uncovered. The lack of transparency at TPC is glaring. It is also unsatisfactory. Then we found out others had seen the elephant in the sanctuary, and like us had said nothing, but were now leaving after doing what we had done which was investigate the facts and ask direct questions.

The fact is that we along with many others made and fulfilled our commitment to the TPC Stewardship campaign. The fact is that Pastors Mike and Cindy along with the Elders of TPC diverted funds from the Stewardship fund to the operating budget. That is not what we or others gave that money for nor was it disclosed to the people who gave the money. If TPC takes in on the average of $69,000.00 per month, then the operating budget and salaries should be predicated on that figure and not $109,000.00 which is the target monthly budget figure. If TPC members have to live within their means, they should expect their church to live within its demonstrated monthly income. Since TPC is a top down organization Pastors Mike and Cindy and the Elders have acted in a way which is financially irresponsible and unethical. If the church cannot afford to pay Pastor Mike $15,000.00 per month, then why is it? If a member of the paid staff has to rely on a food bank every week to feed their family, why is TPC paying Pastor Mike an obscenely large salary? The financial accountability of TPC leadership has been abysmal. My husband and I do not like being manipulated or mislead – we were lied to by omission and failure to disclose. A lie by any other name is still a lie.

No one who is on the TPC payroll should be an Elder or a Deacon because their conflict of interest in dealing with the day to day business of running TPC is to much to overcome. That includes Pastors Mike and Cindy. It is called AVOIDING EVEN THE APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY. It is a cornerstone to any set of personal values. Unfortunately, Pastors Mike and Cindy have ignored that and it has infected others who line up to rubber stamp whatever comes out of Pastor Mike's mouth. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and Pastor Mike is a mere man and needs to be held accountable for his actions in his position as senior pastor of TPC. But that is not happening. The Elders are acting as Mike's hand picked yes men.

And then Pastor Jackie, stood up objected to the elephant in the sanctuary, which is the direction that Pastor Mike is taking TPC but failing to disclose to the body. Pastor Jackie stood up because she did not want the members of TPC to be merely a wallet or checkbook for Pastor Mike's blind ambition. Before Pastor Mike becomes anything he needs to become someone who the Lord wants to use to go to the nations.

James 3:13-16
Do you want to be counted wise, to build a reputation for wisdom? Here's what you do: Live well, live wisely, live humbly. It's the way you live, not the way you talk, that counts. Mean-spirited ambition isn't wisdom. Boasting that you are wise isn't wisdom. Twisting the truth to make yourselves sound wise isn't wisdom. It's the furthest thing from wisdom—it's animal cunning, devilish conniving. Whenever you're trying to look better than others or get the better of others, things fall apart and everyone ends up at the others' throats.

Part of the prerequisites for an Elder is that their house be in order. Pastor Mike TPC, your house, is not in order! Making fun of others who have been offended and hurt and who have left TPC and used this forum to voice their hurt because of your actions in your sermons as the butt of jokes is the sign of someone who is immature and who seriously lacks wisdom. How can someone who acts so immaturely lead a church or be an apostle to anything?

I have spent a lot of time on my face praying for Pastor's Mike and Cindy, the Elders, the Deacons, and the staff of TPC because if TPC self-destructs the damage to the reputation of the Bride will take Marysville area churches decades to repair. It is not to late to repent and ask for guidance from the Father who loves to help his children if only they repent and ask for his guidance.

Daughter of Dorcas

Daughter of Dorcas,

It is always sad to welcome a new member to this forum. It is sad because it means they come here after being in a destructive setting. At the same time it is hopeful because healing has begun and Truth can be brought to bare.

Thank you for sharing and welcome.

TPR

Daughter of Dorcas,

Well written. Thanks for all the information. Everytime someone new posts it makes me even more sad for those that continue to follow the lies.

Outreach

Daughter of Dorcas - thank you for revealing the truth. I personnally know the hurt these revelations can bring as I and my wife have experienced a similar level of discust regarding these type of actions by so called godly men and women. These leaders claim to be lovers of God and His people. Instead they show themselves to be lovers of money and of self. We however did not experience this at TPC, but at Radiant Life Church in Sacramento, CA. Just as you experienced at TPC; church employees at RLC are forced to pinch every penny while Tony draws his $110,000 salary, collects his love offerings ($$$ unknown); and drives his fleet of vehicles (the Volvo, Ford Excursion, Porsche Boxter, and Shelby Cobra).

Thank God we have seen the true light and no longer attend RLC. So sister, now you, just like us, have been set free! Free to worship and experience the true love of Christ. I'm not sure what you and your husband are experiencing emotionally at this moment, but my wife and I are happier than we ever have been. We look at our experience at RLC as a life lesson. I hope that you and your spouse will be able to do the same. May the Lord our God bless you both.

BTW: The elders have no authority to move funds that were specifically earmarked by the congregation without the expressed "written" permission of the person(s) donating the funds. For example: If I donated funds for missions in South America, those funds cannot be used for anything but missions in South America unless I gave my permission in writing. You and others may wish to consult an attorney (perhaps you know one).

Daughter of Dorcas,

Well said, you have summed it all up in a very mature and equitable manner. Thank you for your cander and your courage to post this. It is often so hard to face the hurts we have endured from the church as the cut to the very soul. We will pray for your continued strength and healing.

VNM

Thank you Paul74 for that information. I do not know if the laws in California are the same as those in Washington. I think there are those at TPC who will investigate and bring the truth to light by asking for an independent audit if the laws are the same. For only those who remain haved a vested interest in how TPC moves forward from this point.

I think now my husband and I need to look for a new church home and remain devoted to support other former TPC members who are going through the same trial that we are. Supporting one another and worshiping our Lord for his goodness in walking us through these trials is enough for us right now.

We will continue to pray for the leadership at TPC as well as every member of the Church big and small.

Daughter of Dorcas

According to Scripture, Elders exercise only that oversight given to every Christian in the congregation. So each person who has posted to this web site has exercised their responsibility to speak out in that capacity when they saw something amiss at TPC. Stepping up and speaking out because their Elders have not or in the case of Pastor Jackie, spoke up and felt compelled to leave to prevent division within the church. According to the scripture I have found and the scholarly papers and treatises on that subject Pastor Mike's announcement that he is not accountable to the Elders and he and Pastor Cindy are only accountable to each other is not in compliance with scriptural direction for Elders and Pastors. It is the job of elders to provide oversight to a pastor. However, with Pastor Jackie's exit it appears TPC elders are no longer capable of providing oversight of Pastor Mike. Whether this is a result of inappropriate influences of outside clergy, the evidence and statements by those in the position to know would say yes. I am afraid Pastor Mike is not acting in a manner which is scripturally based.

Pastor Mike wanted the bylaws of the TPC rewritten to reflect his new direction for the church. Whether he found someone to do this for him, I do not know, but it was his intention to do it. This was to bring TPC in line with the umbrella entity which Pastor Mike was creating to put himself at the head of Turning Point Skagit and Turning Point Lebanon. This would have effectively created a new denomination with Pastor Mike at its head. I question both the motive for this and I keep coming back to the same scriptures which discuss pride.

In days gone by I have heard Pastor Mike admonish his congregation to be wary of those who would lead them away from the narrow path which leads to salvation and the Lord. Unfortunately it would appear that Pastor Mike did not heed his own sermons. However those of us who did cannot be a part of a church or teaching that we feel is not in keeping with the word of God. When in doubt – go to the word of God for you answers and direction. Never has this been more true than now.

“Just let them go; out of sight out of mind.” Such does not reflect responsible leadership (Jackson, Wayne, Church of Christ Magazine, Aug 7, 2007, The Awesome Responsibility of Church Leadership). Yet that is the response from Pastor Mike to the exodus of church members. It is better for him to have us leave than question his vision and leadership of TPC. There is no call for oversight or review of his vision because it might be wrong and not from God if those who disagree leave. This is arrogance personified. Pastor Mike has lost his way and the Elders are doing nothing to help him find his way back by repenting of his prideful ways and asking the Lord to lead him back to solid ground because right now he is on shifting sand.

If TPC Elders and Deacons cannot follow their scriptural responsibilities then they need to resign. If an Elder or a Deacon is on the TPC payroll or has a spouse on the payroll they need to step down so that Elders who do not have their ethical and financial dilemmas can take on the responsibilities and fulfill their scriptural duties. Elders and Deacons are to minister to the flock not the Senior Pastor. Pastors, Elders, and Deacons are to minister to and care for the needs of the flock/congregation. How can Pastor Mike minister to the flock if he has cut himself off from the people is supposed to lead? The answer is he cannot.

We continue to pray for TPC so that some good can come out this. I pray that a year from now that a visitor who stops by TPC will find the church we used to know and that Pastor Mike will once again be on solid ground and a man that God can use for his purposes.

Daughter of Dorcas

Good Afternoon,

Today I was watching Joyce Meyers. Her show was "The Benefit of Boundaries" this is a two part series which runs today and tomorrow. These are 2009 shows and are first run showings. I would encourage everyone to view these two shows. Today they covered the benefit of boundaries. I believe you may be able to view these on Joyce's website. One of the topics that spoke directly to me was the comments that Joyce made about a "church that started out with so much potential but self-destructed" and how this was the result of the enemy taking hold of leadership and leadership failing to listen to those who cared enough to confront them in love. TPC Leadership has told at least one member of this forum that after "research" with Skagit County Churches they were told to ignore anyone who asked them to meet with former member critics of their direction in a group setting. They did not identify the Skagit Valley Church or Churches who gave them this information, but knowing what TPC Leadership said in the email, the text of this was posted on this forum, about the TPC relationship with Pastor Tony Cunningham just days before he was in Marysville to teach at SOMA -- their credibility in being truthful is questionable.

There are those of us who love TPC. We love not only the members, but every member of leadership as well. In Proverbs it says to try and work out problems privately when you have an issue with a brother or sister. It goes on to say if you cannot resolve the issue then take someone with you so there is a witness to your attempt to resolve the problem in love. The failure of TPC leadership to agree to meet with exiting members in a group shows that TPC Leadership does not want to be confronted in love or in any other way which calls into question their direction. Pastor Mike's isolationist position is only adding to the problems at TPC. It is not acceptable for the Senior Pastor to isolate himself from those he is supposed to lead and shepherd. Any elder who supported this action should immediately repent and go to Pastor Mike and tell him they were wrong and ask for forgiveness for giving him poor counsel. I have a problem with Leadership as do many more, it would be appropriate and wise for TPC Leadership specifically Pastor Mike and Pastor Jeff Barnes to meet with those who seek to confront them in love because we believe that the enemy has gained a foothold in leadership and we want to help you find your way back to the path the our Lord Jesus has for you. We want to help you break off any strongholds the enemy is using to lead you down a path that will destroy Turning Point Church.

For the record, I only post when I feel the Lords presence and he provides me with something he wishes me to communicate. I have received private messages about how well I write and asking me if I am a member of leadership. I am not. What I am is a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ and when the Holy Spirit moves me to write, I am only the transcriptionist for what I am told to write. The writing and the style is the Lords through the Holy Spirit.

An Elder and Pastor has left TPC because they disagreed with the direction of the church. Now a Deacon has resigned. The Lord has a word for TPC Leadership and it is REPENT and ask for his forgiveness and his guidance in leading you back to the path he has for TPC because if you do not TPC will self-destruct because you failed to listen to those who cared to confront you in love. The mocking spirit that Pastor Cindy once spoke about because of a vision is not those who post to this website, but the spirit who has found a foothold and created a stronghold in the leadership of TPC.

We who love TPC, but voted against its misguided direction with our feet, will continue to pray that TPC Leadership will repent and ask Jesus to help them find their way back to the path he has for the church. We will pray that TPC Leadership with severe any ties which have lead them to deviate from the path the Lord has set out for them. We will pray that Pastor Mike will fast and seek the Lord to guide him to be the pastor that he purposed him to be when he said "all or nothing" all those years ago.

Daughter of Dorcas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 05:58AM by Daughter of Dorcas.

In The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen, the authors describe spiritual abuse as: "It's possible to become so determined to defend a spiritual place of authority, a doctrine or a way of doing things that you wound and abuse anyone who questions, or disagrees, or doesn't behave spiritually the way you want them to. When your words and actions tear down another, or attack or weaken a person's standing as a Christian -- to gratify you, your position or your beliefs while at the same time weakening or harming another -- that is spiritual abuse."

Some may proclaim good things that are being done in their church, but this good does not dismiss or excuse anything bad. It is wrong -- and dangerous -- to ignore abuses simply because good may also be found.

Certainly there are countless groups which can speak of good they have accomplished or which has happened during their meetings, even groups whose main purpose is to push the agenda of it leader(s despite who they hurt or use in the process. Does this in turn validate that everything they do is proper and of God? Does this diminish the damage inflicted on others? Certainly not!

If we turn our heads and vote against abuse in our church with our feet and our checkbook, the abuse continues. How many must be hurt before it is addressed and seen for what it is?

Those of us who wish to confront spiritual abuse in love at TPC are not going to go away just because TPC Leadership wishes that we would. We will continue to confront on this forum because TPC Leadership denies us the opportunity to confront in love in an open meeting. When the leadership of an Elder led church is in question, then it is time for that leadership to do the right thing and step down. Wise counsel has not been provided to Pastor Mike; instead he has been told what he wants to here. That is not leadership. Make no mistake; we continue to love Pastors Mike and Cindy, the Elders and Deacons, and the body of TPC. We just feel that Pastor Mike has lost his way and needs wise counsel to find his way back to the narrow path.

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted. Bear you one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. (Galatians 6:1-2)

Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
Those of us who wish to confront spiritual abuse in love at TPC are not going to go away just because TPC Leadership wishes that we would. We will continue to confront on this forum because TPC Leadership denies us the opportunity to confront in love in an open meeting. When the leadership of an Elder led church is in question, then it is time for that leadership to do the right thing and step down. Wise counsel has not been provided to Pastor Mike; instead he has been told what he wants to here. That is not leadership. Make no mistake; we continue to love Pastors Mike and Cindy, the Elders and Deacons, and the body of TPC. We just feel that Pastor Mike has lost his way and needs wise counsel to find his way back to the narrow path.

DoD, you have brought up many issues that are in TP. I really have nothing to add, I just agree with you. I though I would in a littel more scripture here, b/c I believe instead of wise councel, Pastor the elders speak to Mike what his itching ears want to hear.......

2 Timothy 4:2-4 (New International Version)
2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.