I have been thinking this so now I am going to just say it - The level of arrogance that is being displayed by the leadership at TPC is unprecedented. If they were the management team of a company and ignored the signs of trouble with the arrogance they are as pastors/elders of a church they would go bankrupt. To take the broad approach of painting all their problems as "persecution" is irresponsible beyond measure. Nevermind the lack of discernment, that is scary in and of itself. Pride clearly comes before a fall because the pride in their own superiority and self-righteousness has plugged their ears and gouged out their eyes.

I know that our enemy is unseen and not of this world. I have to keep in mind the level of deception and blindness is something that deserves my prayer not my anger. God help me!

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LearningPoint
Let's clarify: Traitors and liars do their deeds because there is something in it for themselves.

The people who post here left Turning Point with grief in their hearts. Later, they felt compelled to tell their TRUE stories here because they were concerned that others were being decieived by false teaching, shackled by unbiblical authoritarian leadership, and robbed by greedy and unaccountable pastors. Those who posted here had nothing to benefit, knowing they would be thought of as "bad" for standing up for the truth.

On the contrary...Who is it who has covered up their out-of-control personal behaviors, their misuse of the stewardship fund, their decisions to take control of the church, their belief that they are a lead apostle (to whom all the churches in the area will one day become accountable), etc.? Who is it who has betrayed the trust of the people by doing these false things (and many others) that violate God's intention for church overseers?

Are the ones posting on this forum the liars and traitors? Or are the leaders at Turning Point the ones who fit the description? Who has the most to gain or lose by betraying and lying? Decide for yourself.

I confess to you all, that this statement really got to me. I knew, that when I left TP, I would be considered "the bad guy", and I know that I shouldn't be concerned with what man thinks of me, but the fact that someone actually called us (as a group, maybe not me personally) liars and traitors really got under my skin. I stewed about this much of the day. Thank you Learning Point, for stating the truth. I hope that those who remain at TP, who are reading this forum, can see the difference. I pray that God would help me to love a little better, and to find compassion for those who are "caught in the middle".

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tpcwocattender
I agree with Brokenhearted - the actual salary is not the issue it is how it affects ministry. The last budget meeting I went to where they showed what they had agreed upon for the next year also showed what was spent that year. Across the board ministries were not funded, in some cases not even getting 10% of what was allocated to them the previous year. One that struck out in my head was benevolence. There was less than $1200 spent for the entire year in this ministry. That's less than $100 a month! For a church that had tithes of over one million dollars that is deplorable. Two years ago it wasn't any better, benevolence was funded at barely 10% the committed amount but music was over budget by $27,000 (nearly triple its budget). This was the year of the CD. I have to say looking back that ego drove the production of that CD. TPC leadership wanted to say "look at us! We have a CD just like Hillsong!" Very irresponsible to me and if the congregation had a say in the money would they have voted to cut all ministries to fund such a project?? I don't think so, do you?

It kinda reminds me of the huge banks, and mortgage companies, all the top guys made sure they were taken care of, they still have all their big house, cars, toys and financeial security, while the employee is left jobless and homeless. We were told to bring our offerings into the store house so there will be no need, Yet it seems its only the leaders who have no need. tp is going to stop heath care for the staff, I wonder if that includes the exutive staff also, I doubt it, I could be wrong though, but it seems so uncharactoristic of them, Your take on the c d is so right on, I knew that from the start. Cyndi has always wanted to be something she's not, its always been about the performance, the show, when guests came to tp she had to be up front center stage, singing, even when there were many better singers available. its sickens me the lack of humility and love there was and is.

I had lunch with a friend a couple days ago. This friend saw what I posted on this forum (they are still attending TP) and wanted to talk about what I had wrote. Now...I will be totally honest in saying I was a little scared to talk with this person out of fear of them yelling at me for what I wrote or something, but it actually was a great time of my friend getting to ask questions and me explaining what I have been going through for the last 4 months. She made observations about me...that I had depicted myself a certain way before I left...of being fine and now all she could read in my posts was anger and bitterness. She was right. Something happened over the last couple months or so that brought me to this place of total isolation and anger.

When I had left TP I was actually in a good place (still disturbed about things being covered up, etc.). When I turned in my resignation letter and also said my goodbye's to all the other staff members I had worked alongside for 3 years...I wasn't angry. I was excited to move on and to get to pursue my dreams. Something did happen in me though in the following months that turned me from moving on to someone who was angry, bitter, and full of rage.

Many ppl started to leave TP and the ppl that I had remained or tried to remain in relationship with that still attended TP began to view the ppl that left as arrogant, wrong, in sin, and I even think the word "stupid" might've been used. I am not about to judge a persons reason for leaving because everyone's level of conviction is different and our moral compasses are channeled differently. Along with seeing these ppl that were my friends...they started to speak ill of friends that I had that left the church and even my family. I can't even tell you how many ppl think that my husband and I left the church because of my family or passively made comments about my family. I have my own brain and can think for myself. Dan and I leaving was OUR decision.

I stopped getting calls from ppl I used to spend HOURS beyond HOURS with...and it felt as if our relationship had simply become insignificant or not worth the effort. My heart started to get hard and I went into the loneliest season I have had in a LONG time. This is only a snippet of what I went through emotionally after leaving TP. I didn't just lose relationships (which I did) but I lost my "salvation," reputation, status, and platform as an authority in what is depicted as the biggest move of God in the Northwest.

That first post I made I wrote from an angry angry place. It was the night of the meeting about Jackie. Jackie has been one of the most trustworthy ppl that has ever entered into my life and for those who instantly crucified her in their hearts and deemed her guilty...you should be ashamed of yourselves. How many of you would not even be alive if it wasn't for her intervening and showing you the love of Christ? Or spending 12 years of her life building the church that you get to call "home"?

My second post was in regards to SOMA. Honestly...the general statements I made about SOMA were still in that angry and bitter place. I actually did grow a lot in SOMA and believe that my life was changed because of it. My SOMA post was more aimed at Mike Villamor and the over-emphasis on the Apostolic Ministry. That was where all my original questioning originated and it pains me that so many ppl just take what is taught at face value because they trust him. I did for over 2 years and now I regret not saying something or questioning while I was still there.

Do I think that ALL of SOMA is horrible? No.
Did I personally benefit from SOMA? Yes.
Do I think that SOMA is a huge waste of time? For some it probably is, but not all.
Do I think that ALL the instructors are full of it and have their heads in the sand? No.
Do I think that SOMA over-emphasizes on the Apostolic Ministry and the Apostle's authority to an unhealthy degree? Yes.
Do I think that it is unhealthy for Mike to teach from all of his own notes and not teach the whole picture? Yes.

Now...with all that explained...I would like to close with this. I do not regret what I wrote. For too long (the last 4-5 months) I haven't expressed anything about what I think or how I feel. What I wrote in that first post was true...whether it was my emotions or the facts.

I am sorry though to those that I told and promised I would never post on this web site that are still in attendance at TP...even Mike Villamor. I should've never promised that. I am entitled to change my mind, but to say that I wouldn't do it was wrong. I actually had a friend within the first week of me leaving TP say that they "didn't know what to do if I ever started to post on here." All I could think was...be my friend and love me anyways.

The reason I posted this was because I still do love and care about my friends that would still call me friends that attend TP. If I am in the wrong at all I like to think that it is in my character to right that wrong. But I will not apologize for what I wrote...its true. And I am sorry to those of you who honestly asked me why I left and I didn't give you the whole picture. I was wrong in not telling you everything.

- Emily



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2009 07:29AM by hidden.

Silverlunace, thank you for confirming about TP not handing out grocery cards. I can only shake my head in disbelief. A church that doesn't help people? Please, if you still need help, pm me and I will be glad to do what I can.

Does the pastor still make 15k a month? And yet people in his own church that he supposedly loves and serves goes hungry? Is his belly full? Is he thirsty? Does he need clothes?

Matthew 25:41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

A fancy stage, with a concert on Sundays, bouncy toys, these things do not make Christianity. Christ came to love. Bring back benevolence. Take away the concert lights, the big rented building that isn't needed, give some pay cuts to the top pastors, and give back to the people who NEED it.

Hidden,

Thank you for having the courage to voice your concerns and convictions. You have incredible courage. I suspect that there will be attempts made by those in leadership at TPc to find ways to discredit you because you have spoken out. No doubt you realize this and perhaps have already experienced some of these attempts already.

You are in a process of grieving and your feelings, emotions and experience are all valid. Part of healing is the opportunity to share your story- to be heard and affirmed. I know there have been support groups in your area (marysville) for those who have left unhealthy churches. I hope there will be another opportunity for people who have left TPc to get together for the purpose of healing. If so, perhaps you might be able to participate.

If you havent already I would encourage you to read the blog site: [pureprovender.blogspot.com]
There is so much information and insight to be found there and it is nice to be able to work through it at your own pace.

I dont know if you will share anymore on this site or not. That is not important. What is important is that you and your family are able to continue on in your healing process. God loves you and He will not forsake you. I will keep you and Dan in my prayers.


TPR

A couple of questions for TP leadership (inspired by other posts here):

What would a course correction from God look like for you? What would warning signs that you were on the wrong path look like for you?

In a book I'm currentlly reading, there were leaders who would only listen to their own prophets and advisors, ignoring heartfelt warnings from the voice of an outsider (i.e., not one of their select) whom God had sent to them. The outsider's name was Jeremiah, same as the title of the book. The leaders were sure Jeremiah was just a liar and a traitor. That's EXACTLY what they called him. The leaders ended up dead or in exile because they were so self-assured and didn't think they needed to change their ways. They lost everything.

Please stop thinking you've cornered the market on hearing from God. You've violated his Word so badly in His name that there is no way you can possibly be hearing from Him. The evidence is just not there to support your claims.

Does this post make you angry? The leaders in the book I'm reading smote Jeremiah and put him in a dungeon and later in a cistern becasue they were so angry at him. You are so much like them that it makes me tremble to think of your fate if you do not repent. It's a greivous thing that has happened in your hearts and minds to lead you to this place. Please turn back before it's too late. Please.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2009 11:20AM by LearningPoint.

I guess I don't understand how people can read about themselves on a forum and continue on in the same way they have for years. Ways that demean and devalue the name of Christ and all He stands for. Jesus hung out with the losers, the people who suffered and were willing to believe because that was all they could do to change their circumstances..there was no other way and they knew it. They realized Jesus was the way, the truth and the life, not Mike and Cyndi Villamoor or any of the worship leaders up front and center every Sunday. I can remember being in the choir and people struggling with each other to raise their hands in worship, but in the process, hitting each other with flailing hands just to be "seen" in worship and therefore, judged worthy. The frenzy that was whipped up alone bespoke "self" and pushed out the Holy Spirit. The dancers up front, while many were well intentioned, further reduced the believers focus on Jesus as we worshiped and the aggrandizement of self was further perpetuated. You cannot tell me that the worship of people dancing around being seen was authentic. While I believe some were, many weren't. In reality, it matters not what I think, but what God knows.

When I left TPC, after attempting time and time again over the years to go there and "commit", I realized that leaders were being worshiped. While many of these people were kind and well meaning and were devoted to God, they were purely and simply being worshiped. It made me sick to my stomach and it also made me wish that someone would worship me like that. When I started having thoughts of self aggrandizement, I knew that it was a cultish church. TPC had its own language, it had its own idols, it had its own doctrine, and if you didn't sell your earthly possessions and give ALL you have to the CHURCH, you were in sin and God was going to smote you. My husband was laid off while we attended TPC, and I would agonize that we couldn't give more, and more and more. My husband saw what was happening to me "the fall into legalizm", and was very directive that it was legalizm and I needed to move out of that. When I left, I wrote a letter to my discipler. I never heard back from her. I didn't realize that by leaving, I was in sin. I went back to my little old spiritually dead church and went through a withdrawal of sorts. The music wasn't good enough, people didn't move with the music, people and their works were dead, no one was excited about service, blah blah blah. While it is great to be involved in such glorious worship, and you feel like you have arrived, how can you have Heaven on earth in worship? Heavenly worship? There is no way that we can have Heavenly worship here on earth. Human beings cannot sing at all like God can sing. Human beings cannot bring into the Spirit of God worship that is pure. We always bring our sin sick selves into worship. Oh anyways. I feel so sorry for the people at TPC. I even feel sorry for Mike and Cyndi. They are so deceived by the grandiosity they have experienced. In some ways, people who have failed to draw upon God and instead, draw upon people, do a disservice to people like Mike and Cyndi. I would also add here, Casey Treat and his wife. People put them on heavenly thrones because it is easier to worship what we see and feel rather that which is unseen. Worshiping God, who is unseen, requires faith in what is not seen. People are lazy, and when there are leaders who are visible, who have power and hellicopters and lots of money and big houses, that becomes what we strive for. Even posters who have attended SOMA have admitted that their eye was on the prize....of being a leader, not necessarily serving in God's army.

I just believe that the people left at TP need to rise up and put God first. The church will not fail if Mike and Cyndi are removed from leadership not to mention the Barnes. The church may flounder a bit, but if you put God first, He will take care of you. Quit putting your feelings of disappointing Mike and Cyndi first, and put your allegiance behind the One who is worthy. I pray that your eyes will be opened and your heart will receive the truth.

Like many here, I fear for the leaders at TP. There will be an account of what has happened, what is happening. Repent.. meaning stop what you are doing and turn away from it!

There was something on a popular social site tonight that turned my stomach. As much as TP says they don't practice spiritual parenting, there it was, for all to see. MV praising his daughter and his spiritual daughter (also a deacon). That deacon also posted a thank you to her spiritual father and mother, of course, the V's. So much for them not practicing it.

I wish I was as well spoken as some of you here. I'm just frustrated. That a church of 500 (or less, lately) can't see what is going on. That the leadership won't see what is going on. They'd rather see their lovely homes, concerts at Starbucks and at church, and people all around them to worship them. All in the name of our God, our King of Kings. It makes me sick!

We know the leaders read this site, they've said as much! How could they not even check themselves a tiny bit, just to see if maybe, just maybe there is something to what has been said here.

Do you all realize this thread was started on October 18, 2008? Not even a year? And there is 157 pages and almost 70,000 views. This in itself should be able to send a message!!

Romans 16:16-18 (The Message)

16 Holy embraces all around! All the churches of Christ send their warmest greetings!

17-18 One final word of counsel, friends. Keep a sharp eye out for those who take bits and pieces of the teaching that you learned and then use them to make trouble. Give these people a wide berth. They have no intention of living for our Master Christ. They're only in this for what they can get out of it, and aren't above using pious sweet talk to dupe unsuspecting innocents.

Sounds like Mike to me! Twisting words and situations to benefit himself.

Saddened



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2009 09:57PM by Saddened.