Braveheart my sentiments exactly, the church is sleeping and hiding behind the "lets just all be in unity" theme. My question is what unity does light have with darkness. If a people who call themselves brothers are involved in a witch hunt are they truly being brothers? 1john says if you dont love your brother you dont love God the truth is not in you and your father is the devil. My experience with the devil is that he pops his ugly head in my life from time to time and causes me to fall into the hands of a merciful God. My experience tells me that we can all play the devil from time to time but without accountabilty we play him more often than we need to. Mike and Cindi have no accountability even to their claimed local pastors. They are playing God with the people of Marysville and the last one to play God was hurled out of heaven. Annanias and Sapphiras were the first ones to remind us that Gods judgement is the same yesterday today and forever. The kingdom of God suffers violence and the violent take it by force. Yes God will defend the accused but what if none of His servants obeyed His voice because of the fear of man (or of other pastors). Thank God for revolutionaries that know righteous indignation. I poured out my feces in the SOMA classroom in protest to the idolatry of false testifiers. TPWO did not bother to find out why but called the law enforcement and had charges pressed. The result was that I have two gross misdermeanors on my record for life what happened to 1 cor 6 about handling the matter amongst ourselves? Pastor Mike does not follow the Word of God he just preaches it for self gain. eph 4:29 says let no unwholesome speech come from your lips ( corrupt communication) Paul was talking about using a pulpit for your self gain. Congratulations TPWO youve manipulated the masses but youve failed to bind up the brokenhearted, well you bound them up allright, not the binding God was talking about.

I believe that due to the latest issues that have taken place at TPC we will continue to have more views of our postings here at RR. I know for me when I started to really dig deep inside TPC this forum helped me by clarifying what I saw and how I felt. Because of this I have had to search my heart to decide how involved I want to be in expressing myself on this forum. It was made clear to me by leadership at TPC that the mere fact that I had been to this forum, read the posts and even corresponded with its authors that I was 'tainted' and my overall opinion of TPC had been influenced by these encounters. I needed to check my motives - was I posting because I was angry? Did I have pride? Why did I want to share and did I think it would make any difference. I spoke to several couples when I left and explained my concern (only when I was asked to give my reasons did I do this). I felt like I had presented a rock hard case for leaving the church yet those couples still go today. At this point I knew pride was an issue because I had thought that my testimony would surely induce them to leave and it hadn't. I was shocked and quite frankly puzzled. I had to remember that when I started searching for the answers as to why my spirit was not settled at TPC it took almost a year to leave. How arrogant of me to think that just because of my one testimony they would turn and run. I have come to terms with that but I still have remained somewhat quite on this forum over the months. Something keeps nagging at me to shed some light on the subtle issues within TPC. I believe that I have some insight that might help someone to see the deception. Before I do I want to say that Satan is far to clever to steer a church into obvious rebellion of God's word. That would be ineffective at affecting the masses. Satan instead is subtle so with that in mind remember that not everything you hear or see at TPC will be wrong. It only takes one bad ingredient to ruin a recipe.

That said let's look at a scripture that everyone knows – “…And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light…” (2 Cor 11:14). I have heard this used in principle to warn people that Satan will be out there and he will tempt you and it will seem like truth. Though this application in context with God's word is OK the real context of this passage is speaking of False Apostles. Let's read the whole text starting with verse 1 and ending with verse 15.

1I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." 6I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.
7Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? 8I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. 9And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so. 10As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. 11Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

We read that Paul is concerned that the church may be led astray by the teachings of "super apostles". Paul admits he is not as eloquent a speaker as the others and he humbled himself and was not a burden to the church. Then he unveils the scheme of the false apostles and tells the church that they will masquerade as apostles for Christ and he tells the church that if Satan can appear to be an angle of light then are you surprised his servants appear to be servants of Christ? I am not suggesting that Mike is a false apostle and tool of Satan, that is not the subject of this post so let’s move on from that thought. I am suggesting that we all can unwittingly become Satan’s tool for his purpose and not even know it.

Why is this important? Simply put you can't merely judge a person by what they do and what they say, even if they use scripture to back what they say. YOU CAN'T! You have been warned and it would be foolish of you not to be on the lookout. I believe that I can help you see the deception by giving you a real life illustration of how crafty Satan can be. But you can't look at the words being spoken. Remember, it will not be obvious, if it were it would be rendered useless. Satan lives in the subtle he wants to be 99% authentic and 100% determined to lead you astray. He is our enemy! Don't forget your enemy wants you out of the battle and made ineffective in the war for souls.

EXAMPLE: Pastor Mike preaches “the church is to be the vehicle in which poverty is brought to an end.” Sounds great! How can you argue with that? You can't. Here's the deception. Pastor Mike has never said this without handcuffing something like this to it "therefore, God wants you to have the raise, He wants you to have that better job. How can you fulfill this if you don't have the means? God wants to give you the means!" You are probably asking yourself, "where's the problem?" The problem is in application. What does this teaching do to the person who puts it into practice?....It puts them on their knees praying for a better job for more money in order to fulfill what God has called the church to do and not DOING SOMETHING RIGHT NOW. In other words it takes you out of the game. Are you shocked? Are you perplexed? Are you reading this and saying "this is crazy talk! How can praying be what Satan wants? How can this be his plan?" Look no further than the book of James - what does he give as his example of true faith and what does he admonish the reader of? Let's read it.

James 2:14-18
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

James is saying DO SOMETHING don't just wish them well. When Mike tells the church to pray that God will give them the means to help our fellow brother or sister and we go home and pray night after night for a raise or a better job we are as useless as the person James speaks of who wishes the person in need well but does nothing. I can see a person who is putting this teaching into practice passing a person in need and praying out to God "Lord, I want to help but I need the means to do it!" All the while we live like no one in the world. We have homes and resources like no one in the world. You may not think you are rich or wealthy but I have news for you. Compared to the world’s standard you are RICH! (Look up every scripture in the bible that Jesus or an Apostles speak about the duties and the judgment awaiting a rich person and look in the mirror because you're one of them.)

You see, in application we can see where the teaching of TPC has neutered the church and made its body ineffective in the battle for souls. I chose this example because it is an extreme example of the subtle lies that Satan can tell. How it can sound so good that it must be true. Does this mean that God does not bless people with good jobs and raises? Of course not! (look into 2 Cor 9 and read what condition must exist for God to supply abundantly.) Let's not get off track here. The point of this post is to open your eyes to what Satan, our enemy is doing. And the issue at TPC is not that it is being preached it is that the authority structure set up by Mike and the elders do not allow the congregation to question or advise the leadership when the ship is off course. The congregation is told (just as I was) to trust the leadership.

I hope this has opened your eyes and I pray that change will come to TPC and that truth will prevail.

Hello once again forum this is my story and perspective.

I have always thought that things did not make sense. Even when i had the privilege of Listening to Sid and Jackie. I knew there was more, although I do not think this is it. Jackie and Sid have been constantly honest about their issues, been open about there failures and humble about there victories. This looks like some smoke to make everybody turn their heads and the bad guy slip out. I would not put it past, our ever HUMBLE apostle.

I don't know if the Church is stupid enough to take this to trial especially over 27,000... If pastor mike gave about half what he makes they would recover the loss in 3-4 months. This looks like a cloud of bull that is trying making Jackie and Sid look dumb, letting someone get away, and making the church look good, by forgiving the "Evil" people that leave TP. I am sure if he was on the stand the jury would note, the pride, arrogance and manipulation that would spew from his mouth like a waterfall.

Who knows the answers to what happened at TP, if they go to trial it will all come out, and some part of me wants this all to come out, no more bull. I want my friends who are at TP to leave. I want them to see the truth, although it will cause great pain to all of us, especially Jackie. That is why another part of me wants them to just continue with the masquerade and let everybody think that pastor mike is awesome.

Either way,
Lets us pray for truth.

Ps. Best of luck to you two, our payers go out for you to be justified and vindicated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2009 04:28PM by Forgiveness_101.

I want to share a piece of why I left TPC.

I was a full time SOMA lemming. I don't say lemming because that's how I see SOMA now, that's how I felt then. Time after time, in my notes, I caught myself writing that word.. lemming. I was so excited to go to SOMA. I had waited three years for God to let me know it was the right time. Finally the time came. By the end of the first week, I knew something was very wrong. It felt wrong. We were told things like "don't think about things too much". Although I liked some of the classes and I enjoyed my classmates, something always felt off about it all.

From the beginning, however, the Principles of Apostolic Ministry class bothered me to my core. Though this class was supposed to be about the fivefold ministry, all we ever heard about - for the whole quarter I was there - was about the apostle. The authority of the apostle, the role of the apostle, the authority of the apostle, so on and so on. I came to hate the class because I felt I was getting this rammed down my throat. Of course with Mike teaching the class, it was all about him. I honestly felt like I was being brainwashed. Normal humans can learn a point after a couple of times of hearing the lesson. This was taught over and over again.

The authority thing got ridiculous. Mike told a story of a teacher who took over a situation, to point out the hub of the fivefold. A student asked if that teacher had authority over him at that moment and would he have to do what the teacher asked him to do. Mike said, "No, I still had ultimate authority. But because I'm a humble man, I would do what the teacher asked." (I won't go into my opinion about people speaking about how humble they are.)

The moment where I made up my mind that enough was enough was the day Mike spoke on 2 Corinthians 12:12. "The things that mark an apostle - signs, wonders and miracles - were done among you with great perseverance."

He taught a bit and then turned to the class and said; "I want to hear about the signs, wonders, and miracles you have seen me do." No kidding. Not miracles God had worked, but the things HE had done. The class went on and shared story after story of how prayers that Mike had prayed had been answered and other nonsense. I just sat there with my jaw hanging open as this class - to me (this was probably taken differently by the people in the class) - worshiped and praised a man. One person started a story and Mike interrupted her and said, "No, that was someone else. I only want to hear about the things I've done."

I knew then, that it was time to leave. There is no force on earth that can convince me that this was something Jesus would want to see. To GOD be all the glory. Not man.

I looked up my notes for that class recently and was disturbed. Other then the verse notations, all I had written on there was; "There is great benefit to accepting Mike as an apostle."

There is great benefit to loving God and putting nothing before HIM. Period.

Paired with several other reasons, I soon left TPC without looking back.

Part of my anger and hurt comes from the fact that I feel like I was ripped off. I feel like this man who God gave to shepherd this church, this school, is using it for his own gain, to feed his own importance, to raise himself up as this god like apostle that everyone should stand in awe of.

I am somewhat grateful for that, however, because that is a side the congregation will never see. Otherwise I may still have been there, trying to ignore the screaming red flags.

SOMANW is now called Pacific Northwest Bible College

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TurningPointReject
SOMANW is now called Pacific Northwest Bible College

That's a misleading name! When your teachers have not been through an accredited college themselves how can you call the school a "college"? It takes away from those schools whose teachers went to an accredited college to gain a degree in order to teach others.

Why the importance and emphasis on a college anyway. The pastors are expected to do full-time ministry on a part-time work week. For those that do not know the teachers at PNWBC (formally SOMA) are the pastors of TPCWOC.

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TurningPointReject
SOMANW is now called Pacific Northwest Bible College

I just ran a corporation search on the state web site. What I found conspicuous by their absence was SOMANW, School of Ministry Arts Northwest, School of Ministry Arts NW, or any other derivative thereof. So contrary to what everyone has been told, was and is SOMA a wing of the church or a separate entity? According to Mike and company SOMA was a separate entity, however if it was separate why wasn't it registered. Does it operate with its own UBC Number and Federal Tax Identification Number or does it operate under TPC's UBC and TIN Numbers? There is also no listing for Pacific Northwest Bible College or any derivative thereof. So are they running an unlicensed college now? Is this the transparency they are trying to suggest they now have? So were Mike and Jeff running a for profit business, or at least profitable for the Villamor and Barnes', so that they could hide from the members of the congregation the amount of salary they were raking in from SOMA. Hmmmmmmmmm every day a new disturbing thing to consider. SOMA having a separate set of books from the church does not make it a separate entity; it just gave the appearance of being one. It would need to be registered and have a separate UBI and TIN.

How could Debbie Bowman find a discrepancy three years before she supposedly had access to the books? If Mike had been concerned he would have marched into Jackie’s office and rebuked her on the spot. New procedures put in place and that would have been the end of that. He didn't do that, he wasn't being too trusting -- He knew what was going on and it didn't matter until it suited him to suddenly care after Jackie left with a trail of wallets and checkbooks walking out behind her. The funny thing is the majority of those who left didn't even talk to Jackie and she wasn't the reason they left -- Mike's new title was. His new doctrine was the reason so many ran for the exits. Jackie was the trusting one. She did what was asked of her, she acted in a totally submissive role, and look at what she gets for her trouble.

Saddened

I am not sure of all the legal and technical details and terms, but I can shed some light on this.

As a church in the USA you are automatically given a tax exempt 501c3 status. At this point you can elect to file as a 501c3 and by doing so come under the rules and regulations of an official 501c3 entity. This is what most churches do, it is automatic. TPC has willingly elected not to file as a 501c3 and therefore not have to abide by the rules set forth by the government. These rules are mostly to insure that no one is being inured by the tax exempt entity (inured is to be favored or benefited by an organization). There are some filing and transparency laws that also are required by an abiding 501c3. The transparency laws include making financials available to the members, listing the top 5 salaries and what they are, accountability to where moneys are spent, etc. By abiding as a legitimate 501c3 you also are officially a recognized tax exempt organization and its donors can write off the gifts. TPC is none of these and they have chosen so willingly. They do not want to be held accountable by its congregation or the government. If they were a compliant 501c3 then the Stewardship Campaign Moneys would have to be spent for the intended purpose they were collected. The check itself written to the church with 'stewardship campaign' noted on the check becomes a contract between the giver and the church. As stated TPC is not required to do so. All you have to do is ask the church for its financials and you will find out (via an email from Mike himself) that you will not be getting any detailed financials and that they are in 'full compliance' under the regulations set up for a non-filing 501c3 organization. Also, minutes from the board meetings would have to be available as well and they are not, just ask, you'll see.

One must ask themselves why? Why would a church do this? This is not by some strange accident, it was intentional. TPC did not want anyone to see what was going on with money or what was discussed in the board (elders) meetings. This lack of transparency is disturbing to say the least. Check with other local churches. You will soon find that TPC is the only one doing this (at least I could not find one).

Trust begins with openness and honesty. There is no reason that TPC can't start now and be more transparent to its members.

(As stated - I don't claim to be an expert and would welcome someone who has more experience with these tax laws. As a basic truth my post is correct I just admit I may have some of the terms incorrect)

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Saddened

Quote
TurningPointReject
SOMANW is now called Pacific Northwest Bible College

I just ran a corporation search on the state web site. What I found conspicuous by their absence was SOMANW, School of Ministry Arts Northwest, School of Ministry Arts NW, or any other derivative thereof. So contrary to what everyone has been told, was and is SOMA a wing of the church or a separate entity? According to Mike and company SOMA was a separate entity, however if it was separate why wasn't it registered. Does it operate with its own UBC Number and Federal Tax Identification Number or does it operate under TPC's UBC and TIN Numbers? There is also no listing for Pacific Northwest Bible College or any derivative thereof. So are they running an unlicensed college now? Is this the transparency they are trying to suggest they now have? So were Mike and Jeff running a for profit business, or at least profitable for the Villamor and Barnes', so that they could hide from the members of the congregation the amount of salary they were raking in from SOMA. Hmmmmmmmmm every day a new disturbing thing to consider. SOMA having a separate set of books from the church does not make it a separate entity; it just gave the appearance of being one. It would need to be registered and have a separate UBI and TIN.

How could Debbie Bowman find a discrepancy three years before she supposedly had access to the books? If Mike had been concerned he would have marched into Jackie’s office and rebuked her on the spot. New procedures put in place and that would have been the end of that. He didn't do that, he wasn't being too trusting -- He knew what was going on and it didn't matter until it suited him to suddenly care after Jackie left with a trail of wallets and checkbooks walking out behind her. The funny thing is the majority of those who left didn't even talk to Jackie and she wasn't the reason they left -- Mike's new title was. His new doctrine was the reason so many ran for the exits. Jackie was the trusting one. She did what was asked of her, she acted in a totally submissive role, and look at what she gets for her trouble.

Saddened

This talk of being a transparent group of church leaders is intriguing. Really what we witnessed thursday was faux transparency by the Supine Seven (also known as Elders). Its quite easy to be transparent with others faults, failings and mistakes. Don't expect to see too much transparency when it comes to the faults, failings and mistakes of the number one Apostle. The good news is God knows each of our issues. We are transparent to God, whether we know it or not.

Thursday raises more questions than it answered.
Why was this brought to the congregation before the investigation was complete?
Why were there no safeguards in place prior to now?
What safeguards are now in place as a result of this matter?
Did the CPA examine the finance records of tpc? If not, why not?
How can the members be certain that the TPC finances are in order if no forensic audit has been performed on that set of books?
How much money has been transferred from the building fund to the general fund?
When will this money be paid back to the general fund?
Have pastors paid the required taxes on house keeping and yard work performed by members of the church in pastor's homes?
Are members currently performing housecleaning duties and yard work in the homes of pastors without pay?
Have pastors submitted the appropriate tax forms for the gifts and cash they have received from members of the church?
Why have pastors not disclosed what their salaries received from SOMA and/or TPC?
How much money has been given to pastors by Elders in the form of Honor gifts or special tithes or double tithes?
Is this "pay for play"?
How many hours each week do pastors perform duties for TPC?
How many hours each week do pastors perform duties for Pacific Northwest Bible College/SOMA?
How many other businesses are the Pastors involved in and how many hours each week are given to those businesses?
When do the pastors of TPC have time to sleep?
How many children of pastors are on the payroll of TPC and/SOMA?

Just how transparent is this new transparency?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2009 10:52AM by TurningPointReject.

Yup.

But, please remember: the Apostle doesn't have to answer to YOU; YOU must answer to THE Apostle....

Reason and rules do not apply to him.

SICK! SICK! SICK!

Quote
TurningPointReject
This talk of being the most transparent group of church leaders in Marysville is intriguing. Really what we witnessed thursday was faux transparency by the Supine Seven (also known as Elders). Its quite easy to be transparent with others faults, failings and mistakes. Don't expect to see too much transparency when it comes to the faults, failings and mistakes of the number one Apostle. The good news is God knows each of our issues. We are transparent to God, whether we know it or not.

Thursday raises more questions than it answered.
Why was this brought to the congregation before the investigation was complete?
Why were there no safeguards in place prior to now?
What safeguards are now in place as a result of this matter?
Did the CPA examine the finance records of tpc? If not, why not?
How can the members be certain that the TPC finances are in order if no forensic audit has been performed on that set of books?
How much money has been transferred from the building fund to the general fund?
When will this money be paid back to the general fund?
Have pastors paid the required taxes on house keeping and yard work performed by members of the church in pastor's homes?
Are members currently performing housecleaning duties and yard work in the homes of pastors without pay?
Have pastors submitted the appropriate tax forms for the gifts and cash they have received from members of the church?
Why have pastors not disclosed what their salaries received from SOMA and/or TPC?
How much money has been given to pastors by Elders in the form of Honor gifts or special tithes or double tithes?
Is this "pay for play"?
How many hours each week do pastors perform duties for TPC?
How many hours each week do pastors perform duties for Pacific Northwest Bible College/SOMA?
How many other businesses are the Pastors involved in and how many hours each week are given to those businesses?
When do the pastors of TPC have time to sleep?
How many children of pastors are on the payroll of TPC and/SOMA?

Just how transparent is this new transparency?