"One of my family members worked at MH for a time. The Pastor's make upwards to 200,000 per year which does not include what they make from writing and selling their books to the membership nor does it include special speaking engagements."-Tell the truth


I am assuming that you are referring to Mark? I don't know any of the other pastors, so my comments are in defense of him making 200,000 if in fact that is true.


This is why i had trouble with TPC,

Not accountable financially
-dislike being asked about it too

Spent the money (which thankfully i did not donate or give too) that was going for the building fund.
-LIED to the attendants, by paying himself and his wife and all the other staff from the building fund when we thought it was for property and a new building
-By staying in Totem Middle School he is able to make more money, especially with people leaving. The more people the more attention, the more attention, the more accountability. If they do get big they will have to do Enron level shredding.

What i was told by Pastor Jackie is that pastor mike and his wife were bringing in 15,000 a month, with there pay from soma and other such speaking events.
-On top of this i was told that he spends much of his time as a "pastor" correcting papers... when did that enter in the job title of a pastor... seems like a conflict of interest, both pasturing and teaching want his time, but what is he more accountable for... oh right SOMA cause if he didn't show up for that who would tithe, while screwing us and telling us to honor and submit to the authority placed above us (inferring himself), so we are stuck paying the bill for him to teach a bunch of non-sense... Come on really how long can you teach a class off one verse then claim that it is biblical... sorry silly rant on the 5 fold ministry.
-On top of that some of his staff were barely making it. It that situation at least you are supposed to recede in a recession, not going on a spending spree, at best you take a pay cut and push more money into the benevolence ministry (this program was the program that helped financially unfit people, such as single mothers....it did have its problems enabling people, but it did far more good than harm) instead the congregants who can't pay there bills are guilted into "submitting" and honoring their pastor while they go homeless and starving, his pockets fill and his house grows... anyone get a new theater system in your home? A theology that appeals to ones desire for wealth, we all have it, we just know its wrong, morally and theologically.


Hear is why i don't care if he makes 200,000 a year.
-From what i have heard from people, he stuides like a mad man... I have heard 30 hours a week. Somebody correct me if you KNOW HIM PERSONALLY...
-If that is true then I do not have a problem with 200 thousand. (although maybe on the high side)
-If he writes books and is doing speaking engagements, then only to make money off of it, does it really matter? I suppose it might matter if he was doing it before his pastoral duties, but he doesn't hide the fact that he does those things i have heard him openly speak about preaching at churches as a secondary income for his family, and it is understandable if he doesn't mention how long he studies as he would be opening a door of pride to come in.
-The reality of the situation is that they are open with there financial situation, although maybe not perfect, honest.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 08:31AM by Forgiveness_101.

False apostle Mike Villamor has a huge influence on Jakes house and Pastor kieth! I believe Pastor kieth is on board with all of the false doctrines that false apostle Mike teaches. I believe Benny Perez claims that Jakes house is one of his network churches! And we all know Benny's connection with false prosperity church city church! Also his word of faith movement buddies. As far as a good speaker, Benny is a excellent speaker and very popular up here but seems to love to be a slay me in the spirit holy ghost bartender. When Benny was up here for the grand opening at Jakes house during his sermon I believe Benny bragged about how Oral Roberts prayed for him at TBN and how Benny said he was going to be the next reincarnation of Oral Roberts. That is my interpretation of what he claimed happen! I believe Benny also has had false word faith movement teachers like Mark Chirona speak at his church! And I believe Benny was at Casey Treats vision conference in march! Pastor Mikes relationship with churches that teach false doctrine is growing! Tony Cunningham , Casey Treat, Benny Perez,City Church etc. I believe staff and Soma TPWOC people are indoctrinated by false teacers from City church, christian faith center and many other false teachers that teach false doctrine! And its only going to get worse! The inner circle people will stand by false apostle Mike Villamor no matter what false doctrine he decides to teach! The list of false teachers can be found on some of the TPWOC inner circle twitter sites. I hope my information is correct if not please feel free to correct me. Northwest had questions about Pastor kieth and if he believe in some of the stuff Mike has been teaching!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 10:05AM by buddy.

Great Post Northwest.

I had watched a video by Sam where he quoted a sermon by Mike Villamoor. I confess my first thought when I heard Mike say that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely is of the devil was that Sam cut and pasted to distort and make Mike sound terrible. Thank you M04 for posting the gist of the sermon. It is hard to believe.

Anyone familiar with the context of Lord Acton’s quote would know it refers primarily to political leadership. It would seem that anyone who has followed church history has read and in all probability witnessed abuses of power by churches or leaders who have not been accountable. Again in the scripture there is constant warnings and examples of Kings and leaders who start out good and then fall in part because of the power they have. King Saul the other king who insisted on sacrificing and then got leprosy, and then Hezekiah showing the Babylonians his treasure, and Solomon, and David. In these cases and others kings started well, meant well, and then became blinded by their own power.

I would say sadly that Mike has fallen into this same category. Mike started well, I believe he meant well. I honestly believe he is unaware of the abuse of power he has engaged in. I believe he is totally unaware of the irony of him saying that statement is of the devil yet he is fulfilling it as he was speaking.

I think it was also fascinating how effortlessly he is able to honor himself by referring to the person saying he rocked after only speaking for 20 minutes. It seems so normal until you try to picture yourself saying the same thing to a group of people. I think it is the same total lack of awareness.

To the elders at TP I hope you are praying about this. If Mike and Cyndi are being corrupted by power it is only going to get worse. At what point will you stand up to protect those you are sworn to protect?

Ok, he makes $300,000 per year for a church body of 6-8,000 every Sunday. He also gives away much of his income every year (half) and just sponsored a speaking tour on his own dime. And he does study like a madman. The church is open about the finances, however, has very interesting practices such as private suites at sports events etc.

So all of that being said, what is so attractive to the human race that congregates people in such high numbers every Sunday? Paul wasn't a great orator from what I have read, but his message of the gospel is true and timeless. In our society, we are so attracted to beauty and charisma. Is the mega church just another thing of the world? Not mine to answer.[/b]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 01:43PM by tell the truth.

Quote
tell the truth
Ok, he makes $300,000 per year for a church body of 6-8,000 every Sunday. He also gives away much of his income every year (half) and just sponsored a speaking tour on his own dime. And he does study like a madman. The church is open about the finances, however, has very interesting practices such as private suites at sports events etc....

I have heard and seen his bragging as to things like Summer Jubelee, community feed and such. None of this adds up to 150,000 a year in give-aways out of his personal pocket. If there were any value to his giving I think he would be bragging his ass off about it! On the other hand, things like private suites at sporting events and keeping it quiet is more like what is going on. If he is "giving" half his money away every year, then what on? Suites? Parties? Hookers? Giving isn't always "giving".

I'm sorry but I am suspicious as to this "speaking tour" you are taking about. Are there resorts involved? Kick-backs? Are speakers being paid by the hosts? I mean if the whole thing out of Mike's pocket adds up to transportation via renting an old school-bus then he could claim he is sponsering the "trip" right? What is involved here? "Speaking tour" could be code for mini vacation!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 04:50PM by Mville04.

False apostle Mikes twitter site is becoming ridicules,who cares what the guy is doing every couple hours! Mike must feel famous that people want to know every moment of his life! Mike Villamor must feel like Michael Jackson the famous one! You know what mean, this famous stuff is really going to Mike Villamor head! I don't know how he can handle all the fame! On Mikes twitter site 9 hours ago he claims he watched the fireworks in Seattle with some seminary profs! What is he trying to make us think now ,that he is smart! Maybe they can help him with his false doctrines! Now Mike has me following him all around his twitter site!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 11:23PM by buddy.

ok so marysvile4 told me in a pm that hes an athiest yet he sounds so knowledgeable of our plight to me this is a wolf in sheeps clothing. now buddy who is disrepectful of brothers even if they are in sin which makes His stuff sound personal, has now moved on to other churchs to attack (all without any real knowledge of things) yet spews opinions like there facts. and then others post stuff that just isn't true. thats the stuff that went on at tp and now its here selfrighteousness has made its way here that is why I am removing this site from my favorites and will not be on it again this post will probably not make it on here but at least I wrote it. its so fun talking about the problem, makes you feel a little superior but what about the solution. I God still in control. or did he turn control over to the marysvill04 and aavon phenonix 's who have nothing I want. or to the misimformed youth or angry ex members this forum serves no purpose anymore but to spew garbage. I guess thats what happens when you meet evil with evil you become evil

You make a great point! nooneofanyimportence! It is important that will know what the facts are!

Quote
Mville04

Quote
tell the truth
Ok, he makes $300,000 per year for a church body of 6-8,000 every Sunday. He also gives away much of his income every year (half) and just sponsored a speaking tour on his own dime. And he does study like a madman. The church is open about the finances, however, has very interesting practices such as private suites at sports events etc....

I have heard and seen his bragging as to things like Summer Jubelee, community feed and such. None of this adds up to 150,000 a year in give-aways out of his personal pocket. If there were any value to his giving I think he would be bragging his ass off about it! On the other hand, things like private suites at sporting events and keeping it quiet is more like what is going on. If he is "giving" half his money away every year, then what on? Suites? Parties? Hookers? Giving isn't always "giving".

I'm sorry but I am suspicious as to this "speaking tour" you are taking about. Are there resorts involved? Kick-backs? Are speakers being paid by the hosts? I mean if the whole thing out of Mike's pocket adds up to transportation via renting an old school-bus then he could claim he is sponsering the "trip" right? What is involved here? "Speaking tour" could be code for mini vacation!

Hello Mville,

I believe the quote you are responding to is about a different church and has nothing to do with TPc or MV. When we start discussing other churches on the TPc thread it can lead to confusion. If you (anyone) have thoughts or opinions about other churches it might be helpful to share those either on a new thread or via the PM. This cuts down on the confusion. Just a thought....

Quote
nooneofanyimportence
ok so marysvile4 told me in a pm that hes an athiest yet he sounds so knowledgeable of our plight to me this is a wolf in sheeps clothing. now buddy who is disrepectful of brothers even if they are in sin which makes His stuff sound personal, has now moved on to other churchs to attack (all without any real knowledge of things) yet spews opinions like there facts. and then others post stuff that just isn't true. thats the stuff that went on at tp and now its here selfrighteousness has made its way here that is why I am removing this site from my favorites and will not be on it again this post will probably not make it on here but at least I wrote it. its so fun talking about the problem, makes you feel a little superior but what about the solution. I God still in control. or did he turn control over to the marysvill04 and aavon phenonix 's who have nothing I want. or to the misimformed youth or angry ex members this forum serves no purpose anymore but to spew garbage. I guess thats what happens when you meet evil with evil you become evil

You bring up some thoughtful points. Anger, Opinon, Respect, Selfrighteousness.

Each of us must continually weigh our reasons and motivations for participating in this forum. I believe it is true that some find this to be outlet for their anger. I suspect that if each of us were to go back and read through our own posts that we could find times when we posted out of anger. Anger is a healthy, natural, emotion. Even the Bible affirms this as so. No doubt, nooneofanyimportance, you have found yourself angry about what you have seen and experienced at TPc. Perhaps you might even find that you, too, have expressed your anger here on this forum. I don't know this for sure as I haven't gone back and re-read your past comments. It is common, natural and healthy to talk about our anger. This forum provides an opportunity to do so. It is not the ideal setting. But it is a place for this to happen. If TPc were to allow its members an outlet to express their disappointments, concerns, and, yes, even express their anger, forums such as this site wouldnt be necessary. Yet many have testified that when they have sought to meet and discuss what has caused their anger they have been met with excuses, denials, and have even been labeled as trouble makers, rebellious, divisive, etc.

Regarding opinion, a forum's main purpose is to provide a place for people to express their opinions. Many opinions have been expressed here on the RR site. I find there are often opinions that are posted that I disagree with. I also know that many people disagree with the opinions that I myself have posted. The nature of web forum allows for posters to sometimes come across in ways they would never come across in person. Its not a perfect venue to express and discuss opinions by any means. But again, TPc has fostered an environment where the expression of opinion is discouraged, is it not? How many times have you sought to express your opinion at TPc only to get shut down by those in leadership? Should we here on this site follow the same practice and shut down others when their opinions don't match ours? I myself have struggled when others with differing opinions have posted here. And yet, I realize that they are entitled to their opinion and I demonstrate that I value them as people when I give them space to share their opinions without trying to shut them down. I do not have to agree with their opinion but I can be respectful of them as children of God.

That leads me to respect. I can treat a person respectfully and still not respect their actions, beliefs, or character. Respect, in one sense, has to do with ones worth and value. As a Christian, I should respect all people because of the great value placed upon them by Christ. Therefore I should value Mike and MVille as much if not more than I value myself. At the same time I do not have to place equal or greater value on either of their views, beliefs or character qualities. I can value them without having to value their behavior, belief, or character. If Mville is an atheist I can still respect him as a person without having to attribute equal value to his belief system. I can respect Mike because he, too, was bought and paid for by Christ. However does that mean I have to place the same value or level of respect on his teachings, beliefs, actions, and behavior? No. Absolutely not. Jesus, himself addresses this issue in the New Testament when speaking of heaven he says, "Some of you will come to me and say 'Lord, didnt we teach and prophesy in you name' (actions and behaviors)? I will say, 'Depart from me because I never knew you'". I believe someone like buddy respects the value placed on Mike's life by Christ but has lost respect for Mike's behavior and actions. The challenge faced by each of us is not allowing our disrespect for the teachings, behaviors, and beliefs of Mike to become disrespect for Mike as one of Christ's redeemed. The same must be said of our respect for Mville. We find it easy to disrespect people when we see ourselves as more valuable than others; worthy of greater honor than others; requiring others to submit to our opinions while rejecting their opinions; This is self righteousness. It is pride.

Self righteousness means we lean on our own actions, behaviors, opinions for validation. I found this definition in the dictionary: confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others. When we dismiss others opinions and decide that their thoughts, postings, concerns are illegitimate then we have veered into self righteousness. I have found this to be my greatest struggle here on this forum. Many times I have not wanted to tolerate the thoughts and postings of others here. I can't tell you how many times I have had to go back and apologize for my selfrighteous attitude. No doubt there will be times in the future which will require that I humble myself and ask for forgiveness for being selfrighteous here.

Nooneofanyimportance, I appreciate you and have been challenged by many of your posts. Thank you for the contributions you have made here. I celebrate with you this new step in your personal journey and I value your friendship. You will be missed here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2009 04:34AM by TurningPointReject.