At some point in time you just have to ask yourself has each and every member of the leadership of TPC lost every little brain cell they ever had? I don't know who Pastor Mike serves anymore, I just know that I cannot follow a man who has lost sight of the truth and the way to eternal life...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!

Daughter of Dorcas

Sad Episode 1: Please Pass the Millstones

The church I was attending prior to Turning Point was a Seeker Targeted church. Along their way, Christ was pushed from the center of what they were doing, and everything, absolutely EVERYTHING seemed to center around their target audience. Worship services (which were scheduled before the "seeker service") were being altered and "toned down" to make sure "Seeker Steve and Sally" were comfortable. All of the programming became about "Steve and Sally" and Jesus got pushed to the side.

Since I often have the opportunity to bring people (friends, coworkers, etc.) with me to church, I always want to be certain that the church will be Christ-centered and Bible-based. But even while I was becoming concerned about this other church and my concerns had been "shot down" or not understood a couple of times by leaders, I wasn't really looking to leave. But when I attended a service at Turning Point with a friend, I fell in love with the unrestrained love for and declaration of Christ and His gospel.

I began attending Turning Point semi-regularly and then exclusively after some weeks of trying to attend both churches. A couple of women I was mentoring also wanted to attend Turning Point when they experienced the unashamed and open-hearted love for Christ. It was like breaking into the sunshine after being in the shadows. One of the women who began attending TPC with me has a husband who is not a Christian. He grew up Catholic, and his experiences growing up at home and in church led him to the conclusion that there really isn't a God. Well, I think it was partly due to the changes in his wife's demeanor and our conversations about God that caused him to start attending Turning Point with her. He even came to some Alpha classes and met Jeff Barnes, who was his main connection to TP leadership. I began having some meaningful conversations with this man, and his questions and grappling with spiritual issues showed he was moving from a place of adamant nonfaith to a place of doubt that was opening up his heart and mind to "the possibilities" of a life of faith in Christ.

Then the stewardship campaign came along. Mike started focusing his messages on money. My friend's husband began voicing his disgust and objections. Why did the church need a new building? He hated the new gymnasium setup, but more he hated how "slick" things were becoming, and the evidence that money was being spent unnecessarily. "Why not just rent out some classrooms for the kids?" he wondered. I defended the church's actions. But my heart was uneasy for different reasons. Why had the church hired a professional fundraising firm to handle the campaign? In my Bible reading during that time, passages that warn against trusting in man and "going down to Egypt" for help kept coming across my reading path. I went to talk to Pastor Mike and he told me that because he wasn't gifted in administration, he was delegating this task (as an act of humility, recognizing his own weaknesses) to the Generis (?) company. As I listened to his reasoning, my outside person was listening and nodding, too afraid to say what my "inner man" was screaming: "Up to this point, God has helped us in all our weaknesses. He has brought us this far, and He will be faithful to us in bringing in what we need. This is faithlessness; you have 'gone down to Egypt for help.' Please reconsider!" [Those of you who were there during this time will remember that we had pursued another building in Smokey Point/Arlington, and it seemed that doors were opening miraculously, until God just closed the door. But Mike had told us all God had used that experience to show Mike that he could trust God to take us into what He had for us.]

OK, back to my friend's husband. He and my friend lived in a very nice neighborhood in Arlington. Both worked: he at Boeing, she at a clinic. One of their neighbors announced that they would be moving to a new upscale neighborhood called Aspen. My friend's husband, for that reason, became aware of how much the homes there cost. They had gone and looked at them out of curiosity. In the very next week or two, Mike announced that he and Cyndi were moving to Aspen. My friend's husband was aghast. He had heard Mike asking everyone to give sacrificially for the building fund. He knew what the price range was on the houses in that neighborhood. He was livid when I went to their home for dinner that afternoon. I tried to calm him down, tried to tell him that I was sure it was for some purpose of investment to give back to the church. He would have none of it. The next Sunday, he confronted Pastor Jeff about it and asked why Mike was moving in to Aspen when the church members were giving their last dime to the campaign. Jeff got defensive and said, "Don't you think the pastor deserves to live in a nice home?" My friend's husband said, "I'll bet you're moving in next door, aren't you?" (I had no idea that this was actually going to happen.) I don't recall what Jeff said back, but instead of speaking gently to this man who was not a Christian, he was rude and defensive. Jeff had known my friend's husband from Alpha, as I said earlier; he knew of him because I had requested prayer in small group for him. Jeff knew good and well that he was dealing with a "seeking" person.

My friend's husband has never been back to a church. They have since moved out of state, and I have gone to visit, but he refuses to entertain ideas about God being real. In the car, on the way back to their house from a meal out, this dear man took the preemptive approach and began to challenge me, his hurt and anger evident. He was thinking I was going to be defensive like Jeff had been, I guess. I was able to have a meaningful discussion with him, soothing his anger, but also learning what he now firmly believes: faith is just something that helps get us through, no matter what its object. There is no God sitting on a throne "up there." There is no living Jesus for us to worship.

My heart is sick as I type it. But that's how it is. That's my sad episode Number 1. Apparently my testimony/witness and his wife's aren't enough for this man, as I believe he's been disillusioned by men in his life who have professed faith but who have failed to live it out. I think he would be more than willing to forgive honest mistakes; but "living lies" are incredibly destructive, and he's encountered a number of them. This man is not a Christian, but he does insist on truth for himself and for others. How ironic that he, the nonChristian loves truth, but cannot find the Truth through the veil of lies he's encountered in the church. Please pray for him.

As a post script, my women's small group was troubled about Mike's decision to move into the expensive house, too, during the push to raise funds. So I gathered my wobbly nerves and made another appointment with him. After a few attempts, I was able to get in to see him. (All my meetings with him were before I got free from my fear of authority, so there was usually lots of trembling, teary eyes, and a quavery voice when I met with him.) I told him I was representing my women's group and had some questions. I asked about the house, and he told me it was an investment; they planned to sell it and give the profit to the church. He also told me that it wasn't to gratify his own desires; the house wasn't really to his liking. But it had the functional qualities that he and Cyndi were looking for. They had wanted a house with a large common area where people could gather to worship without bothering the neighbors; they had wanted a place where there was ample parking for such get-togethers; and there was one other item that escapes my memory. (They had looked at every possible house in Marysville but to no avail to find what they were looking for, until they found this one.) But Mike had assured me that this house was one of the least expensive in Aspen. It didn't have some of the features the other houses had, so they had gotten a good deal on it. Mike pointed out features he'd rather have in a house--different colored wood, for one thing. The others I can't remember. I think I told him about my friend's husband. I think he said that people aren't always going to understand. There was no offer ever given my him or Jeff to try to help my friend's husband understand. So apparently it doesn't matter to them if "little ones" or "fragile ones" stumble over their choices and the way they live. (As if it isn't challenging enough to come to terms with the Rock of Offense, the Stone of Stumbling--Jesus, the One my friend's husband was groping to understand.)

Make what you will of Mike's purchase of a half-million-dollar home (give or take $100,000). In my estimation, it cost at least one soul. Priceless.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2009 11:03AM by LearningPoint.

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Miki
Tell the Truth and Daughter of Dorcas,

Thanks for your input. How do I know what you're telling me IS godly wisdom? I don't know either of you. Just wondering.....

My opinion was simply my opinion and I have worked in the legal system for over 11 years and know what happens to people undergoing a lawsuit. What you do is up to you. Don't look to man for your answers, we all know what that gets us. I don't need you or anyone else to judge whether or not my opinion is 'godly'. On a good day, I'm not that godly. I try, but don't succeed in being 'godly'. I fall everyday because I am a human being separate from God and represented by the great Attorney Jesus Christ who connects me to the Almighty. Now we can drop the subject.

Dear Learning Point,

What a heartbreaking story. Very very touching. I can't wait to read the rest of your story.
My son had read it and wanted to tell me part of it but I yelled over him because I wanted to read your own words.


I hosted one of the Genesis meetings at our house. I feel ashamed now.

In retrospect it was manipulative. It had a veneer of biblical wording and some merit but in the end it was obvious the technique that was used. Get as many people to have little jobs as possible. Some, like the one I was given, were totally meaningless. But I believe the idea was to make you feel "part" of the team. Then gradually build up to the night that the leaders publicly march up and give their pledge then use that as leverage to get others to give their pledge on another night.

It would be interesting to know how much money that company makes a year.

Thanks again.

Marty

I wanted to take a moment to thank Turning Point Reject.

I think over 44,000 people have hit on this site. When I happened upon the RLC forum it was like my eyes were opened. I couldn't believe the parallels. I knew that it was genuine. Though I couldn't judge the particular facts there was no doubt that there was a mark of authenticity.

When TPR started this one I wasn't sure how much impact it would have. But I think many of us have been relieved to hear other's stories, to know we aren't alone.

I liked Tell the Truths reply to Miki. None of us are perfect. This site isn't perfect. I had a good young man. Someone I think highly of and pray God's blessings on write to me that I was gossiping by writing here. This isn't a perfect forum to express and warn others but it is the only one we really have. TP with its authoritarian structure and lack of accountability is what has given life to this site.

I say all that to thank Turning Point Reject, if I were you I would feel really good that I helped bring hope to so many people.

Thanks again,

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buddy
I received a e-mail from TPWOC word -faith (name it claim), positive confession, prosperity, health and wealth gospel, I want to be on TBN false teacher womens director Valerie Ralston about TPWOC womens get together on this Sat. She says everyone of us have dreams we would like to see come true, but I believe God is saying to us, “I have a dream for you! Would you be willing to make My dream for you come true?!” I want you to know that He has a dream for your life that will exceed your wildest dreams! His dream for you is for good! I want to find myself living right in the middle of God’s dream for my life, and I believe that you do to, so I invite you to come discover the stages of the dream and how to “push through” to see it come to pass in your life. Valerie wants you to positively confess your dream into reality just like God. In fact you can become a little God and speak out your dreams into reality. Just like Bob harrision ( Dr. increase ) speak out your bible verse everyday and your power will produce wealth. Your faith becomes your power source. That is why we see an Increase in the budget at TPWOC because this stuff really works. I mean its worked for Apostle Mike and the prophet Cyndi. Because they have Great Faith and after Casey Treat gets done with us we will all have Great faith. We won't be these little faith creatures preaching the Spirit of poverty and complaining,gossiping and being way too negative. We all are going to become little Gods with Great faith!

God's dream for my life won't happen until I leave this eartlhy body.

I've been getting alot of flack about the sue thing. I guess maybe I should've kept the legal stuff out of it. Many think that this is because of bitterness, anger or resentment or even unforgiveness. NO. LearningPoint brought up the point of a friend losing his faith in Christ. THAT is what it's all about. It's about the adults and especially children/youth coming out of TPC lost and confused.

My daughter has a friend. She put all her money into SOMA. Now that she's left, what does SOMA do for her? Nothing. It's a school that's not accredited. It's not even looked at as a "school".

When I left TPC, M&C tried to keep my husband and children. I had no say in my daughter's upbringing because she was in discipleship. (I'm not saying her discipler was not a good person, because she is) The false teachings there are false.

They also tried to split up my husband and I. Good try, but God won that battle. Afterward, my husband didn't want to go to church. He had a "bad" taste in his mouth for it. Soon after he and the kids joined me. It has taken 4 years to heal and let go of TPC and forgive.

There is so much more. I don't feel like I've gotten the "go" from God. I've been studying scripture. I must say that I don't appreciate some comments, some of the comments feel like M&C condemning me. People, it was just a simple question!!!! Unless you have been in my shoes, you don't know. So I ask,

"Is this a really safe place?" I am not perfect. I am a person with many flaws. However, I do not deserve to be attacked..... I love God with all my heart and soul. He has taught me many things in this last 4 years. How blessed am I! He is who I will look to, for what can mere man do to me? (I love that scripture!!! It gives me strength and takes "fear" away!)

This will probably be my last post. A dear friend suggested that it's probably not a safe place here. To my "friends", you know how to contact me! I love you all dearly! Miki

Only 721 people have left Pastor Mikes spiritual fathers Church false apostle Tony Cunningham! And Pastor Jeff Barnes said that their still going to invite the self proclaimed false prophet up to TPWOC to teach! What is going on at TPWOC? Who is making these decisions? Is Tony Mikes spiritual father and is Mike Jeffs spiritual father? Who is Tonys spiritual father? Where do all the spiritual mothers fit in? How do they have spiritual babys? What do I have to do to become a spiritual father or son? It seems like there is a connection between the way Mike can't let go of Daddy Tony, and Jeff can't let go of Pa Pa Mike. How do the spiritual fathers punish their spiritual sons when they have been a bad boy?

Moderator -- is there a way for you to fix the timestamps on the posts? Thanks so much!

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buddy
Only 721 people have left Pastor Mikes spiritual fathers Church false apostle Tony Cunningham! And Pastor Jeff Barnes said that their still going to invite the self proclaimed false prophet up to TPWOC to teach! What is going on at TPWOC? Who is making these decisions? Is Tony Mikes spiritual father and is Mike Jeffs spiritual father? Who is Tonys spiritual father? Where do all the spiritual mothers fit in? How do they have spiritual babys? What do I have to do to become a spiritual father or son? It seems like there is a connection between the way Mike can't let go of Daddy Tony, and Jeff can't let go of Pa Pa Mike. How do the spiritual fathers punish their spiritual sons when they have been a bad boy?

i dont know buddy but my spiritual dog had spiritual fleas, is it a sin to kill them