Wounded Warrior - I like what you said, especially the part.... "I like Cyndi but I find that it was difficult to be around her because her perfectionist ideals become evident as she states she has never said a swear word, she WORKS on becoming better and better. (I wonder how many times she thought about using a swear word! Last time I said A swear word was about 10 years ago on my way to work in the middle of the night when I ran over a dead dog in my car!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 05:36AM by buddy.

Turning Point Church does indeed hold an annual meeting to discuss the budget with the body. However, just because something appears on the budget does not mean it will be funded and that funds will not be diverted to some other line item depending on income. Since the average income of TPC has not met the target budget amount in YEARS, that creates a problem. I would think the best thing to do would be to revamp the budget and have the income and line items balance instead of always having a deficit. That is not my opinion, that is scriptural. Living within your means is a story that is repeated more than once in the Bible. It is a class that Elder Olin and his wife teach to the body at TPC.

Here are some thoughts on John Bevere and some of his "teachings":
[www.deceptioninthechurch.com]


And, remember, submission...its not a bad word...
[www.batteredsheep.com]

And one more article just to add to your "confusion":
[www.batteredsheep.com]

Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
Turning Point Church does indeed hold an annual meeting to discuss the budget with the body. However, just because something appears on the budget does not mean it will be funded and that funds will not be diverted to some other line item depending on income. Since the average income of TPC has not met the target budget amount in YEARS, that creates a problem. I would think the best thing to do would be to revamp the budget and have the income and line items balance instead of always having a deficit. That is not my opinion, that is scriptural. Living within your means is a story that is repeated more than once in the Bible. It is a class that Elder Olin and his wife teach to the body at TPC.

Yes, DofD. I agree. That was what I was saying when I said that budgets are theoretical. Actual numbers are an entirely different thing, and if no one is holding anyone accountable for the actual numbers, the budget that is presented at the annual meeting is not only meaningless, but also deceptive--and by this time, a flat out lie (in the name of faith, I'm sure--like other exaggerated numbers and accounts of stuff) since this has been going on for years.

This stuff is NOT OK!! Why are we second-guessing ourselves about whether or not it's bad to call out these terrible dysfunctions, lies, and abuses of power? It's not rebellion to stand on truth, to stand up to authority that is abusive. When the apostles were questioned and flogged and ordered by their religious authorities to stop preaching the truth of the gospel, they said (in essence), "You decide what's right: to obey you or to obey God."

When it comes down to obeying, we're bound to obey the truth, not lies. To remain in the truth, you have to "rebel" against lies--to put on your armor and use it for what it was meant to do. Stand up to the lies. Check out the Word of God and know what it says so you CAN use your shield of faith and your sword of the Spirit effectively. As Painful Journey said and as so many others have repeated on this thread: DO YOUR HOMEWORK, TURNINGPOINT! Then unapologetically take your stand in the truth. It is God we serve, not people. Mike and Cyndi did not shed their blood for you, Jesus did! You owe them nothing in this life except love. Did you know that? That truth is in your Bible...I challenge you to go find it. Please don't passively follow a human authority down the path of life. Jesus alone is qualified to do that. Those Chuck Swindoll quotes from "Tell the Truth" were right on the money. Did you read them? Please do! Please, please please let God help you think and make decisions by His Word and His Spirit. You are allowed. You are instructed, in fact, to keep in step with the Spirit (see Galatians 5).

Be Bereans!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 07:45AM by LearningPoint.

Acts 17:11

11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Paul, the apostle that some have compared Mike to, was questioned. The words that he spoke were tested and examined for the truth.
Why shouldn't we do the same of any other man?
What reason would Mike or Cyndi have for trying to make you feel guilty about questioning and testing their words?

"Receive the message", the gospel, the truth, the grace of God........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 08:13AM by Brokenhearted.

Mike, how was Hawaii?

"God is not the author of confusion..." This is what Cyndi quotes as she encourages her "flock" to battle. It comes from 1 Corinthians 14:33 Again, here is a perfect example of "proof texting". Let me define proof texting: the practice of using decontextualised quotations from a document (often, but not always, a book of the Bible) to establish a proposition. Critics of the technique note that often the document, when read as a whole, may not in fact support the proposition.

So lets examine Cyndi's proposition: Confusion is not from God. Sounds good. So where does confusion come from if not from God?
When we place that verse back into its context we discover a Glorious Irony. If we look at the verse that Cyndi quotes in its full context we see exactly where the confusion Paul is referring to comes from:

1 Corinthians 14:26-40
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
34 Let your[d] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. [e]
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

The Truth Shall Set You Free

So. We see that God is not the author of confusion. Instead confusion occurs in the church, according to Paul, when, among other things, women are permitted to speak in church. So then I must ask, according to God's Word, is Cyndi causing confusion? Is the TPc structure and belief system and its practices leading to confusion?

Cyndi quotes another verse in James. Lets look at it in context: (I will add commentary in italics)

James 3:13-18 (New King James)

13 Who is wise and understanding among you?Would that be Mike and Cyndi? Are they the wise ones among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdomAre their works done in meekness and with wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envyAre they envious of Tony C and Casey Treat and John Brevere? and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boastDo they boast? Did Cyndi boast of how good she is doing? and lie against the truthIs "spiritual parenting" a lie against the truth?. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seekingDo Mike and Cyndi seek for themselves when they ask you to honor them? exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceabledo they live peaceably, gentleare they gentle or have they been harsh, willing to yieldwhen have they yielded or do they always have to have their way, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 12:09PM by TurningPointReject.

Great Post Turningpointreject!!

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

1 John 1:8

"As so, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion,
kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience; bearing with one another and forgiving each other,
whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

Colossians 3:12-14



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 01:54PM by Wounded Warrior.

This is so interesting,

Please tell me what you guys think, as i have been trying to think of answers for why Turning Point does not recognize, or even understand why someone could possibly disagree or think differently than themselves, and this example of Pastor Cindy and how she (ironicly) misinterprets 1 Cor. is a perfect example.

Not bashing you Cindy, but just a healthy disagreement.

Did it ever occur to you that confusion is a process of learning?
In my experience, the way i learn has often caused a personal confusion with mathematics. If i am in a math class and i don't understand how calculus works and i am trying to learn it, but the concepts are confusing, is mathematics sin, or am i in sin? So, if what everyone is saying is true, that you indeed believe that "ALL" forms of confusion are sin and are of the devil... what is sining, me or the math teacher? Who is causing the confusion... the teaching or the teacher, the way the student likes to learn, or the student its self?

See the obvious problem with this is that you are now the Judge. We are not meant to Judge in the sense of calling a possibly innocent act sin. When we are calling things that are very nominal sin, then we too are judged for the nominal and therefor condemned by the nominal.

This is the problem that I have identified at TPC, that the gap between what they preach and what is "rational" or "reasonable" is few and far between what actually happens in reality!


Like how many people who pray and recite Jer29:11 for a Lexus (to better minister to the rich of course) compared to how many that get that Lexus they prayed for...

Like anyone who has a problem learning, CONFUSION is not of Satan... Although it can be.... It can not and should not be a blanketed statement that covers everything. The problem with doing this makes every person who has one second of confusion in their life feel guilty or shameful for natural responses to learning or something not presented clearly!

Thank you for your Time
FORGIVENESS _KCF

forgiveness_101
you make some great points about the learning process.
what we have here at TP & RLc is classic false teachings & indoctronation. Cindi & Mike are sold our cultests following Tony.

We are right on this!!!
if someone is reading this and you disagrees then bring one shred of evidence to show us our error.

BraveHeart