Giftofsong
Thanks for adding to your testimony What struck me reading this is I'm sure there are some of the elders that are angry and gnashing there teeth reading your testimony.
I'm sure they are embarrassed and ashamed and if they were honorable people they would give you back all your money you spent attending SOMA.


How to tell if you’re at a seeker sensitive church....
If you perceive that the church is trying to be relevant, cutesy, cool in any shape mater or form. Is the pastor trying to be one of us acting cool, being the hipster.....
You have a church that has a low view of God,
a high view of self,
and a low view of scripture!

Your in a Seeker Sensitive Church!

Quote
Mville04
There had been some concern or questions in regards to where all the money for the new church had gone. I had read a commet from an ex-church member that said Mike held yearly budget meetings and that copies of the budget would be given to all those who attended.
Can someone here varify any of that? Does he hold these meetings and is it open to anyone?

Yes. TP does hold a yearly business meeting, and a copy of the budget is provided to anyone/everyone.

A budget is theoretical, though. Is there any information about what ACTUALLY has happened to the finances during the previous year?

What about the building campaign fund information. Is there information readily available about what has come in, what has been spent and on what, and what remains?

Might an independent audit be in order? And if so, how does one go about getting the ball rolling?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2009 03:08AM by LearningPoint.

Another great quote from a friend of mine from Charles Swindoll Insight for Living

God's Word is infallible; people are not. Yesterday, we noted that this point is particularly underscored in the realm of leadership. We
naturally seek after ministers we can respect and follow. Andthen---glory!---we come across some whose lives are admirable, whose
leadership seems to be blessed of God, and whose instruction is biblical, wise, and dynamic. Everything's great until one such
individual teaches something that is different from another minister who is equally admired. That never fails to leave groupies in a
confused tailspin. This is a good time to consider the sage counsel of Bernard Ramm:

How do we settle the truth when two people of equal piety and devotion
have different opinions? Does the Holy Spirit tell one person the
Rapture is pre-tribulation, and another that it is post-tribulation?
The very fact that spiritually minded interpreters come to different
conclusions about these matters distresses many people's minds. They
have presumed that if a man is yielded to the Holy Spirit, his
interpretations must be correct.

But certain things must be kept in mind. First, the Holy Spirit gives nobody infallible interpretations. Second, piety is a help to
interpretation, but it is not a substitute for knowledge or study or intelligence.Third, all of us are still in the human body and subject to its
limitations and frailties . . . we make mistakes of interpretation in Scripture as well as errors in judgment in the affairs of life.

It is the present temptation of at least American evangelicalism to substitute a class of devout Bible teachers for the Catholic Pope. To
such people the meaning of Scripture is that which their favorite Bible teacher teaches. But the Protestant principle must always be this: The
truest interpretations are those with the best justification.

I could just as easily have used an illustration regarding a physician's diagnosis or a therapist's counsel. The issue is
identical, and it brings us back to where we started yesterday. If I could change a term and put it in the language of a famous historical document: all
men are created fallible. Yes, all. If you remember that, you'll have fewer surprises and disappointments, greater wisdom, and a whole lot
better perspective in life. Rather than slumping into cynicism because your hero showed feet of clay, you'll maintain a healthy and
intelligent objectivity. You'll be able to show respect without worshiping him or her. And when you really need to know the truth,
you'll turn to the Scriptures with firsthand confidence.

If you're looking for infallibility, look no further than God's Word.

Excerpted from Come Before Winter and Share My Hope

TPWOC sermon for Sunday March 22nd : Awakening the Warriors ( Resession Proof your Emenies ) by Pastor Cyndi Villamor is now online at TPWOC web site: The enemy is scheming against us and is sending confusion, fear, intimidation, accusations, half truths and sucker punches at the people that attend TPWOC. Pastor Cyndi said she has been listening to false word-faith prosperity preacher Casey( helicoter guy ) Treat and Pastor Mike has been reading John Bevere! Pastor Cyndi is here to save us, she said she is going to engage us into the battle and she is going on a courageous rampage and her favorite weapon is going to be the victory dance!

In her sermon, Cyndi said that anything that brings confusion is bad.

So the Reformation spearheaded by Martin Luther--which brought long-standing falsehood into question and created a level of confusion as people sorted things out--was not from God? As Jesus began to speak truth to the people He was ministering to, there was a lot of discussion about what He was saying and whether it was true or not--that is, there was confusion. So was Jesus not from God?

The problem with Cyndi's sermons, is that she generalizes grossly and, as was mentioned, takes scripture out of context to prove her points. "Proof texting" is such a common occurance at TP that no one notices and knows how to challenge it. Leaders just throw in a few out-of-context verses to validate an opinion, and--wah-lah!--they have a sermon made to keep the troops under their control (in the name of God).

So, people who have been asking valid questions were labeled "confused" by this sermon, and any and all confusion, Cyndi says, is not of God. So, per her interpretation of the "confusion passage" (which was taken out of context), she implies that these people asking questions are playing into the devil's hand. Rather than continue their search for truth, they need to stand up and defend what they have been taught at Turning Point, whether it's true or not.

What a weak and pathetic attempt to manipulate the troops. I hope the ones really searching for truth can see through it and won't be deterred in their quest. Asking questions to get to the truth is not confusion. Were Bereans confused because they spent time checking things out? Searching is not the same as confusion. Confusion may come as you are sorting things out, but that sorting won't be a continual state of mind, since you are moving toward a conclusion.

Hang in there, all you truth seekers, especially if that sermon shamed you and worried you that you're out of God's will by insisting on truth. Nothing could be further from the truth. Keep searching!!

I was told once that by a Somaite that Martin Luther was not good for Christianity because he pointed out that we are saved by grace alone. I, at the time, did not want to question that statement because of the person that was telling me that and that it was in the hallway at TP. We came upon the subject because I had just seen the movie "Luther" and asked if he had seen it. I liked the movie and was shocked at his comment. I like Cyndi but I find that it was difficult to be around her because her perfectionist ideals become evident as she states she has never said a swear word, she works on becoming better and better. She is told she is evidence that God is real, ect. I wish she knew how to appear more humble and human like the rest of us sinners. I know she is human and a sinner but I wish to hear her confess that she has struggles like the rest of us. I definitely can relate to living by God's grace. Who cannot?

Thanks Learningpoint for your last posting!!!

You have great insight and discernment. Sad to say I would have been one of those sucked in by Cyndi's sermon.

LearningPoint, Excellent post!!

Wounded Warrior - I like what you said, especially the part.... "I like Cyndi but I find that it was difficult to be around her because her perfectionist ideals become evident as she states she has never said a swear word, she WORKS on becoming better and better."

I think the word, WORKS she used - says it all. The problem is that since the fall, man has always tried to USE WORKS TO EARN GOD!! Works cannot earn God. We can become as righteous as we want but without the saving grace of Jesus Christ we are still lost. Our righteousness is as FILTHY RAGS...

Even if Pastor Cyndi has walked "righteous" her whole life - according to scripture that is nothing to boast about. For even if she breaks no sins with her mouth, she breaks them in her heart because she is boasting of her own righteousness. And God tests our hearts - not just our actions.

If I recall - JESUS WAS APPROACHABLE - by sinners, children, and the sick. Yet, the ones that thought they were righteous and set themselves apart from the "sinners" of their day were Pharisees. Didn't Jesus rebuke the Pharisees harshly because they were blind and prideful?

I don't know about anyone else, but I get so tired of Turning Point using fear, guilt, shame, discouragement, and threats to keep people from finding TRUTH! (....Talk about the works of the devil!!)

Why is Turning Point constantly defending themselves. If they are innocent in these claims, they would not need to defend themselves week after week after week.

If I lived in L.A. that would be my norm. A "norm" is what is comfortable, familiar, predictable and safe. We as humans tend to adapt to our norm. Then we try to justify it, resist against anything that comes in opposition to it and then naturally try to protect it. If a person is taken out of this norm there will be a gambit of emotions - fear, confusion, worry, anxiety etc. That is why a woman will stay with a husband who beats her or a gang member will struggle leaving their gang "family" ties to find safety, health or happiness. People may be injured where they are. They may even find themselves sad or they may lose their identity all together. But unless they have walked outside the world they know for some time, they will return time and time again to the familiar.

Confusion will come when we start to consider something "new" or different from our social "norm." That is an understandable and a NORMAL response for anyone, not demonic.

Do not be fooled that Turning Point is the only way. Do not be taught to FEAR anything else out there. A church that God will bless does not instill fear in its members. They do not have to defend themselves. They are open, honest, and filled with approachable people. They do not condemn other people. They do not condemn other churches or denominations. They do not keep secrets or hide behind lies. They are not afraid of questions or giving answers. They do not have power trips or control issues. They do not need to use intimidation or manipulation to "direct" their members. I could go on and on.

All of these vices are from the devil! And if you are feeling them just because you want to know truth - it is likely the DEVIL CONTROLLING YOU, NOTHING ELSE. He will try to STOP you from finding a way out.....a way to freedom.....a way to hope and true happiness.

It is hard leaving Turning Point. It takes courage, boldness and fearLESSNESS to find truth. Yet, God said "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE." He did not say - "Turning Point is the way, the TRUTH, the life."

The devil will do what he can to stop you. He is the father of LIES. He hates truth. THERE IS NO TRUTH FOUND IN HIM!!!

So I plead, do not be swayed by either us on this site or Cyndi's sermon. READ FOR YOURSELVES WHAT THE BIBLE REALLY SAYS. SEEK TRUTH FOR YOURSELVES, NOT WHAT SOMEONE ELSE TELLS YOU TRUTH IS. LOOK FOR ANSWERS. DO NOT FEAR ASKING QUESTIONS. After all, God will hold you accountable to whether you knew Him....THE TRUTH...or not, in the end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 04:31AM by Painfuljourney.

LearningPoint, Excellent post!!

Wounded Warrior - I like what you said, especially the part.... "I like Cyndi but I find that it was difficult to be around her because her perfectionist ideals become evident as she states she has never said a swear word, she WORKS on becoming better and better."

I think the word, WORKS she used - says it all. The problem is that since the fall, man has always tried to USE WORKS TO EARN GOD!! Works cannot earn God. We can become as righteous as we want but without the saving grace of Jesus Christ we are still lost. Our righteousness is as FILTHY RAGS...

Even if Pastor Cyndi has walked "righteous" her whole life - according to scripture that is nothing to boast about. For even if she breaks no sins with her mouth, she breaks them in her heart because she is boasting of her own righteousness. And God tests our hearts - not just our actions.

If I recall - JESUS WAS APPROACHABLE - by sinners, children, and the sick. Yet, the ones that thought they were righteous and set themselves apart from the "sinners" of their day were Pharisees. Didn't Jesus rebuke the Pharisees harshly because they were blind and prideful?

I don't know about anyone else, but I get so tired of Turning Point using fear, guilt, shame, discouragement, and threats to keep people from finding TRUTH! (....Talk about the works of the devil!!)

Why is Turning Point constantly defending themselves. If they are innocent in these claims, they would not need to defend themselves week after week after week.

If I lived in L.A. that would be my social norm. A "norm" is what is comfortable, familiar, predictable and safe. We as humans tend to adapt to our norm. Then we try to justify it, resist against anything that comes in opposition to it and then naturally try to protect it. If a person is taken out of this norm there will be a gambit of emotions - fear, confusion, worry, anxiety etc. That is why a woman will stay with a husband who beats her or a gang member will struggle leaving their gang "family" ties to find safety, health or happiness. People may be injured where they are. They may find themselves sad or they may lose their identity all together. But unless they have walked outside the world they know for some time, knowing true freedom, they will return time and time again to the familiar.

Confusion will come when we start to consider something "new" or different. That is an understandable and a NORMAL response for anyone. Yet, the enemy also likes God's people bound. They are weak if they have no knowledge, truth and freedom. Loosen the chains with truth and expect a little turmoil. But after awhile, you can look back and see everything so clearly. You will wonder why you didn't question earlier. Why you didn't fight for what was right before now. You will come away a little stronger, braver and smarter to the works of the devil.

Please, do not be fooled that Turning Point is the only way. There are other amazing churches out there. Do not be taught to FEAR the unfamiliar. A church that God will bless does not instill fear in its members. They do not have to defend themselves. They push them toward freedom, not away from it. They are open, honest, and filled with approachable people. They do not condemn other people. They do not condemn other churches or denominations. They do not keep secrets or hide behind lies. They are not afraid of questions or giving answers. They do not have power trips or control issues. They do not need to use intimidation or manipulation to "direct" their members. I could go on and on.

All of these vices are from the devil! And if you are feeling them just because you want to know truth - it is likely the DEVIL CONTROLLING YOU, NOTHING ELSE. He will try to STOP you from finding truth, because he hates it. THERE IS NO TRUTH FOUND IN HIM!!!

God said "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE." He did not say - "Turning Point is the way, the TRUTH, the life."

I plead, do not be swayed by either us or Cyndi's sermon. READ FOR YOURSELVES WHAT THE BIBLE REALLY SAYS. SEEK TRUTH FOR YOURSELVES, NOT WHAT SOMEONE ELSE TELLS YOU TRUTH IS. LOOK FOR ANSWERS. After all, God will hold you accountable to whether you knew Him....THE TRUTH...or not, in the end.