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Truthtesty
Conflating nothing. You are not answering the questions. I am showing the weakness and irresponsibility of your human approach to evil. I just inserted a known evil person BTK killer into the same scenario as Thieme and all you will do in that scenario is approach the the evil teacher with your disagreement. No more no less. This allows evil in this world to fester.

Evil doesn't fester because Christians aren't working hard enough; evil festers because every person and the earth and everything in it has been corrupted by the taint of sin. We have sick heads and deceitful hearts. After decades of being saved and being an Apostle of Jesus Christ, even Paul writes "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?" (Rom 7:24)

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Truthtesty
Do you really consider yourself a contributing competent member of society? Or do you just parasite off of society?

So I'm an incompetant leech because I post dozens of scriptures that disagree with people?

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Truthtesty
I think the definition is pretty simple. I'll rephrase the question. If you see something evil do you scream in fear or do you fight it verbally and if necessary physically?

Depends on the situation. If I see evil as in someone being shot, should I run up and tussle with the shooter if I have no weapons? What if I see evil such as some atheist yammering on about there being no God? What if I see evil in some guy lying to his wife about cheating when I saw him in a bar with another woman; is it my duty to walk up and tattle? So getting to our discussion, if I see some preacher teaching things I disagree with, should I go out on the internet and start posting all kinds of personal attacks against him?

You are conflating. You are making all forms of evil the same in their physical consequences; true all sin is sin in the eyes of God, but I don't think God called Christians to walk the streets looking for robberies to stop and so forth. Neither of your choices work for most cases: I would neither scream in fear and run away all emotional, nor charge in like Superman to save the day.

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Truthtesty
You seem detached. I would bet that most people would call for the heads of a false teacher if they were physically harming someone in thier family and teaching the bible at the same time. Would you?

Yes, because of the physical harming; not because of the teaching.

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Truthtesty
The NT doesn't give us instructions on how to drive a car either. Do you drive a car? Where's your common sense? This is a difference between calling Koresh a "jerk" vs a murderous Cult leader that let children die and "taught" death. I am calling evil what it is - evil, that simple.

Come on now, driving a car is not a spiritual issue. But you appear to have gone much, much further than any theologians in associating Thieme with "evil", as you have implied a number of times in your latest post.

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Truthtesty
I am just putting up a big red warning sign, if you have a problem with that then you are in the wrong forum.

I only came here to this forum offer my outsiders opinion of some of the posts in this thread. But I am sad that you are essentially implying that I should leave. Good Christian fellowship! Maybe I'm also evil because I disagree with your point of view?

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Truthtesty
So basically here you to tell me that I am conflating what you say and you accuse me of personal attacks on Thieme which you don't have evidence of.

Actually I have not accused you of anything. In all five (?) of my posts thus far, I have never named another person. In my first post, I specifically mentioned this. The purpose is self-examination as scripture calls for, not for me or you or anyone else to judge another person. Ever.

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Truthtesty
You'd [b:64ce188f68]probably[/b:64ce188f68] decline to answer? You just [b:64ce188f68]did decline[/b:64ce188f68] to answer. Are you this unsure about everything you do?

More Christian love?

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Truthtesty
You must be kidding. You're not going to give me details of my so-called personal attacks. You're not here to discuss specific doctrines, except for one of your own choosing - namecalling. But you have no "recollection of Thieme's personal attacks on christians? His attacks are there on tape.

I said earlier on in the thread that I was never a taper. I also said that even IF he had done these things, is it our place to publicly rebuke him about it? I've posted dozens of scripture in my first post on this very thing and, for all of your replies, have not received one verse back.

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Truthtesty
Thieme might be christian, but considering the psycological methods he used and his background he could just as easily been CIA.

So it's either CIA or Christian? Are members of the CIA not able to believe in Christ for salvation?

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Truthtesty
Do you think BTK is christian?

No idea. None of my business.

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Truthtesty
Everything I have said about Thieme is backed up with evidence. If I made a mistake, then I admitted it.

I have not even once challenged the specifics of your claims, nor mentioned you or any specific person (except when directly replying to your posts today). I have ONLY challenged the motivations of those who judge Thieme's person. In your brotherly love for me, you are seriously misrepresenting many of the things I have said so far.

Greetings.

I have authored a rather comprehensive article on Bob ("the Colonel") Thieme and Berachah Church, which may be of interest to members of this forum and visitors. The article is based upon my personal experience at Berach over the period from about 1966 to about 1985, and continued contact with members of the congregation.

The article is in printer-friendly PDF format and is available for downloading without charge on the website: www.gospelbroadcasting.org . Look on the greeting page for the link to "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing and Hirelings".

Voltaic Posted: 08-29-2007 11:31 AM Post subject:

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"It is my opinion that some here, in their zealous desire to expose their disagreements with Thieme's teachings, have gone far beyond this and are in danger of acting in sin; not because they are right or wrong, but because of the motivations of their hearts. I think this has been demonstrated a number of ways, both by outright false statements and personal attacks."

Truthtesty
Show me where the [u:f2aaaf546c]outright false statements[/u:f2aaaf546c] and [u:f2aaaf546c]personal attacks [/u:f2aaaf546c]are, [b:f2aaaf546c]specifically[/b:f2aaaf546c]. Because if you can't, then your opinion is not fact based. Then it is you who is making false accusations.








Truthtesty

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"Evil doesn't fester because Christians aren't working hard enough; evil festers because every person and the earth and everything in it has been corrupted by the taint of sin. We have sick heads and deceitful hearts. After decades of being saved and being an Apostle of Jesus Christ, even Paul writes "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?" (Rom 7:24)

Truthtesty
Evil festers because it is not confronted and defeated. Plain and simple logic, the same logic used in driving your car.



Truthtesty

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"So getting to our discussion, if I see some preacher teaching things I disagree with, should I go out on the internet and start posting all kinds of personal attacks against him?"

Truthtesty
Again where are these personal attacks?

If Thieme showed himself to be a villan, then pointing out the truth of the matter is not a personal attack. Someone isn't villifying Thieme, if Thieme already made himself to be, by his own free choice, a villan. That's just pointing out the truth.

For example: If I said Saddam Hussein was a cut-throat murderer. I am not villifying Saddam to be a cut-throat murderer, by making that statement. That is just pointing out the simple truth. It's not a personal attack.

The answer to your question is yes you should go to the internet and point out the truth. Have the debate. Put all the facts on the table. You might be right or you be wrong, but the truth is out there.



Truthtesty

Truthtesty wrote:

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You'd probably decline to answer? You just did decline to answer. Are you this unsure about everything you do?

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More Christian love?

Truthtesty
Not all love is gooshy, pal. If I elbow my best friend on the side of his face and take his keys so he doesn't drive drunk, then that's a tough act. But I am doing what needs to be done for my friend and the other people on the road.




Truthtesty

Truthtesty wrote:

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I am just putting up a big red warning sign, if you have a problem with that then you are in the wrong forum.

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"I only came here to this forum offer my outsiders opinion of some of the posts in this thread. But I am sad that you are essentially implying that I should leave. Good Christian fellowship!

Truthtesty
Voltaic when I tell you something like "I am just putting up a big red warning sign" THEN THAT IS WHAT I AM DOING. I don't have time to play games.

I didn't imply you should leave, you did. You should stay, you will probably learn something.

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"...Maybe I'm also evil because I disagree with your point of view?"

Truthtesty
No. You have a right to disagree.



Truthtesty

Truthtesty wrote:

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Thieme might be christian, but considering the psycological methods he used and his background he could just as easily been CIA.

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So it's either CIA or Christian? Are members of the CIA not able to believe in Christ for salvation?

I didn't say that was the only 2 possibilities either or. Sure Thieme could have been both or neither or a near endless amount of qualifiers.

Note* The CIA does use christianity in psycological warfare.

PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS IN GUERRILLA WARFARE

[tinyurl.com]



Truthtesty

Truthtesty wrote:

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You seem detached. I would bet that most people would call for the heads of a false teacher if they were physically harming someone in thier family and teaching the bible at the same time. Would you?

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"Yes, because of the physical harming; not because of the teaching."

Truthtesty
What if the teaching from the teacher was causing people in the family to "rebound" so much that they would bump into walls or fall down stairs, hurting themselves? What if the teaching from the teacher was causing people in the family to have dysfunctionalizing nervous breakdowns, breaking down the individual's identity? causing them to hear voices? (and on and on you can read what damage people have witnessed on this forum) WOULD YOU CALL FOR THE FALSE TEACHER'S HEAD IN THIS CASE? THIEME IS STILL CAUSING PHYSICAL HARM IS HE NOT?



Truthtesty

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But you appear to have gone much, much further than any theologians in associating Thieme with "evil", as you have implied a number of times in your latest post.

Truthtesty
Quit wasting my time. Either have the guts to be specific so that I can at least see what your saying specifically so I can answer specifically or quit making generalized accusations about me.

I can answer partially. Sometimes the "theologians" did not go far enough.



Truthtesty