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Truthtesty
To zeebrook:

zeebrook: Rather a long bow to draw that the Thieme cult carries "the violent psychotic potential of the Manson cult".

Truthtesty: I have no idea what a "long bow" is but if you mean it is illogical to draw a comparison between the potential violence of the two cults, then I completely disagree. I from own experience have seen thiemites lose control violently when irritated when their authority was questioned. Also, when a US Army Ranger told my dad at the dinner table that he would assassinate President Carter in 1978 if Thieme gave the order. Then yes Thieme's cult is capable of senseless violent psychotic murder. And Zeebrook I could care less if I can't prove it or if you can't prove it to thiemites. It happened.

zeebrook: Any organisation could be said to have some level of psychotic potential. It is dependent upon the individuals involved with so many personal and environmental factors that would need to be considered. That the perpetrator of such an heinous crime had read some of Thieme's material is irrelevant unless one peruses all that the individual has read. Had he read the morning paper, had he read War and Peace, had he read his morning Navigator's devotional.

Truthtesty: Not every organisation is partially and necessarily psychotic. Also, I cannot believe I am reading this foolish statement"

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zeebrook
That the perpetrator of such an heinous crime had read some of Thieme's material is irrelevant

"

Truthtesty: irrelevant? irrelevant? You must be kidding. Sodini had assurance from Thieme doctrine and Thieme rhetoric and Thieme WRITINGS that he could commit mass murder and still go to heaven. And you call that Irrelevant? Sodini had chickened out before and was trying a new approach and was reading Thieme's writing "the integrity of -od' THE DAY BEFORE THE MASS MURDER when he needed to focus and be absorbed. And you would say that Sodini reading Thieme booklets were irrelevant? You must be kidding?! How fatuous!? You have to deny a huge swathe of reality to say "irrelevant". For whatever reason you appear to be trying to protect Thieme and imply that Thieme's writings had no influence on Sodini whatsoever. Fatuous.

Sodini blog diary: August 3, 2009:(day before the sick serial murder)" I took off today, Monday, and tomorrow to practice my routine and make sure it is well polished. I need to work out every detail, there is only one shot. Also I need to be completely immersed into something before I can be successful. I haven't had a drink since Friday at about 2:30. Total effort needed. Tomorrow is the big day. Unfortunately I talked to my neighbor today, who is very positive and upbeat. I need to remain focused and absorbed COMPLETELY. Last time I tried this, in January, I chickened out. Lets see how this new approach works. Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them. I will try not to add anymore entries because this computer clicking distracts me. Also, any of the "Practice Papers" left on my coffee table I used or the notes in my gym bag can be published freely. I will not be embarased, because, well, I will be dead. Some people like to study that stuff. Maybe all this will shed insight on why some people just cannot make things happen in their life, which can potentially benefit others."

[abcnews.go.com]

Sodini blog diary quote: "December 31, 2008:
Tetelestai Church in Pittsburgh, PA - "Be Ye Holy, even as I have been Ye holy! Thus saith the lord thy God!", as pastor Rick Knapp would proclaim. Holy ----, religion is a waste. But this guy teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him. Call him at [phone number]. If no answer there, he should still live at [address]. In any case, guilt and fear kept me there 13 long years until Nov 2006. I think his crap did the most damage. Their web site: [www.tetelestai.org]"

[abcnews.go.com]

zeebrook: Furthermore your comment that "Sodini was just a sick psycho thiemite who followed Thieme's incompetent loss of reality to the letter" begs the question. Do you know that this man was sick,:

Truthtesty: yes he was sick. What would you say he was "normal"? Lol Fatuous!

zeebrook: do you know that he was a psycho,

Truthtesty: yes he was psycho. What would you say he was "normal"? Lol Fatuous!

zeebrook:do you know he was a thiemite

Truthtesty: yes he was a thiemite/ knappite who was reading RB Thieme jr's booklet "integrity of -od" to focus and be absorbed and prepare for mass murder. Sodini had attended Tetelestai church for 13 years which had a close relationship with Thieme. What would you say Sodini never heard of Thieme? Lol Fatuous!


zeebrook: and do you know if he was following "thieme's incompetent loss of reality"?

Truthtesty: Sure he was reading thiemite material and it leads to an incompetent loss of reality. What would you say he was "in touch with his inner child?" Lol

zeebrook: I am not defending Sodini, nor finding excuses for his actions (all of which I heartily condemn) but find your logic of linking to thieme alone without oher causes illogical.

Truthtesty: I never said that. I just asserted that I could see it happening from the Thieme cult which equals the pyschosis violence of Manson. That it is logical to assert that from Thieme's influence alone that this psycotic violent behaviour is possible and that this person was demonstrating behaviuor similar to the thiemite irrational psycotic violent behaviour that I had witnessed.
And you are trying to absolve Thieme.

zeebrook: My reading of this site gives me the impression that the discussion is supposed to centre on Thieme's teachings and influences that one can factually demonstrate and not utilise fatuous links.

Truthtesty:Show me the fatuous links. Also you will not restrict the conversation of this site. It includes debunking of Thieme which I and others have spent hours providing evidence. So get busy reading what you are supposedly here for.

zeebrook: The teachings of Thieme certainly polarise sections of the church. Some through faulty concepts of Thieme, some through misunderstanding of his concepts, some through devotees not thinking through or studying the concepts who mindlessly mimic attitudes. So let the forum have rationale discussion and not emotive arguments that stretch beyond the factual arguments.

Truthtesty: Thieme was more than just a political polarizing simpleton. Thieme spoke violent speech. Check you own fatuous assertion of Thieme's writings as being irrelevant. Lol (unbelievable) before you would try to claim the course of conversation of this forum is irrational or fatuous. Lol also research Sodini before and after Tetelestai to gather evidence instead of entirely dismissing Sodinis 13 year involvement with Tetelestai AND suggesting that it was some mysterious factor ALONE and not Thieme at all, as the cause of Sodini's psychosis.

Truthtesty: There are emotional reactions that occur here all the time and it does not interfere with logic. And? That will continue. However, the argument that Thieme's potential violence was equal to the level of psycotic violence of Manson cult is logical not irrational. I can not prove the US Ranger story but it happened and is a logical example and not a fatuous link. Also Sodini himself from his own diary was a thiemite who was reading RB Thieme jrs writing "the integrity of -od" and was following Thieme's assurances that he would go to heaven even though he committed mass murder. THE DAY BEFORE THE MASS MURDER of 3 innocent women. It is fatuous to say Thieme's writings were "irrelevant".

Truthtesty

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truthseek
I had a look at the forum today as I had not logged in for a while. I hadn't heard about the Sodini murders. I don't live in America. I don't think the murders made the main newspapers here. Sodini's statement "you can commit mass murder and still go to heaven" really hilights a very big misunderstanding of how salvation works. Yes, salvation is the work of Jesus Christ, not the work of any human. But people often misunderstand the definition of faith as taught by Jesus. Faith is not just a thought in the mind. Faith is shown and manifested by the act of doing what one believes in. Saying one believes in Jesus while behaving in a hateful manner towards others is not a true or sincere faith. What did Jesus mean in the the Sermon on the Mount when he was asked "Teacher, how do I gain eternal life?" Jesus replied, love thy neighbor as thyself." This is a direct reference to acts of love resulting in eternal life. Is Jesus contradicting himself? He also says "He that believeth in me shall never die, yet shall he live." And Jesus said "not of works lest any man should boast" Why does Jesus appear to be telling us to believe in his name only with no work involved to obtain eternal life and then tell us to do the work of acts of love to obtain eternal life? This is a question that haunted me for years. Then one day, the answer came to me. By faith, Jesus meant the ACTION of living the way. Acting out your belief is faith. Jesus said "I AM THE WAY, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the father but through me." Jesus did the work of his sacrificial death on the cross when he poured out his righteousness and mercy on mankind. No human did the work of forgiving mankind. However, when man has faith, believes in the gift of forgiveness this manifests in a contrite and repentent heart and the person does acts of love as a result of their belief in the way of Jesus. By faith, Jesus was not referring to just a thought in the mind but true faith which shows itself in action. A person who commits acts of hate such as murder cannot sincerely believe in the name of Jesus. After all, Jesus is God and God is love.

I would also like to say something to Sistersoap regarding posting # 157. I attending Berachah from 5 or 6 years old to the time I was an older teenager. The judgemental name calling retoric from Thieme resulted in horrible feelings of judgement and rejection of most people as I was growing up. The bible tells us that we cannot love God whom we have not seen if we do not love our neighbor whom we have see. I can tell you that this is absolutely true. I did not begin to feel love coming from God until I expelled all the feelings of judgement and nonforgiveness and nonacceptance that I had learned from Thieme. Negativity blocks the love of God from reaching us. God does not think about man in a judgemental way. This is also a common misconception of God. God is accepting. God does not look at man and think how bad he is. God accepts man. God looks at man and sees the good in man. For example, if someone cuts you off in traffic, we think about how rude the person is. God thinks about what good the person is trying to do. He is trying to get to work so he can feed his family. It took me years and years to learn to accept everyone and forgive everything. I now realize that if someone hurts me they do so from ignorance. Only recently as I look at my fellow humans with clear accepting eyes free of nonforgiveness that I can honestly say that I feel God's love. God's love is a real force that can be blocked by the real force of negativity.

In Christ
Truthseeker

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zeebrook
I am with you Sistersoap on Truthtesty's less that honest responses. Why is it important about the false impression you make Truthtesty is because in your post of November 8, 2007 you proclaimed "I am an expert in the truth" yet you deliberately obscure it here.

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zeebrook
As to Dr Wall's thesis I do not believe you played any role.

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zeebrook
By the way the challenge you put to Sistersoap to get a papercopy, what does that prove?

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zeebrook
On page xii of Wall's introduction he says
It is the prayerful desire of the author that no part of this dissertation will be construed as a malicious attack on a man but rather a fair evaluation of doctrine, and that the ultimate impact of this study will promote the unity, growth, purity, and stability of the body of Christ and will bring glory to our blessed matchless redeemer and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Note the purpose of the dissertation is to be construed as a malicious attack on a man, unlike many of the postings in the forum. Dr Wall asked for a fair evaluation of Thieme's doctrine. From what I have read on this forum Truthtesty has made malicious attacks against the man including calling a Fascist etc etc. A number of posts by Synergy October 1997 hightlighted these.

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zeebrook
Also very interesting is a post of 11 October 2007 confirming Truthtesy's antichristian bias and the that he is not a christian.

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zeebrook
What does the post about totalitarian governments have to do with the issue apart from you trying to deflect the errors you have made? Sounds like you have just read Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". Let us stick to Thieme's doctrinal positions, exegesis etc.

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zeebrook
Well done Sistersoap, and keep it up.

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sistersoap

You give others the third degree for their claims they "can't prove" so come clean yourself.

Sistersoap

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Truthtesty
Dear sister:

Now it is easily found with a search engine. You click and Dr. Wall's dissertation is available "without cost", as a counter to Thieme's "without cost".

Lambrusco is a mellow wine.

Truthtesty

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Truthtesty
Sister:

What difference does it make what role I plyed? The dissertation is available world wide and Dr. Wall wrote it. It is easily available to anyone worldwide witha cick of a mouse. Why can't you just be happy with that? I told you I did not want to go into detail yet? You do not respect that.

Truthtesty

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zeebrook
I am with you Sistersoap on Truthtesty's less that honest responses. Why is it important about the false impression you make Truthtesty is because in your post of November 8, 2007 you proclaimed "I am an expert in the truth" yet you deliberately obscure it here.

As to Dr Wall's thesis I do not believe you played any role. By the way the challenge you put to Sistersoap to get a papercopy, what does that prove? I in fact have a copy of the original thesis, purchased it from Dallas Theological Seminary. It was presented in May 1978 to the faculty of the Department of Theology under the title "A Critical Examination of the Teachings of Robert B. Thieme Jr. on the Christian Life" and signed by the examining committee Charles C. Ryrie, J. Ellwood Evans and John F. Walvoord. So what do you wish to know about the original thesis?

On page xii of Wall's introduction he says
It is the prayerful desire of the author that no part of this dissertation will be construed as a malicious attack on a man but rather a fair evaluation of doctrine, and that the ultimate impact of this study will promote the unity, growth, purity, and stability of the body of Christ and will bring glory to our blessed matchless redeemer and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Note the purpose of the dissertation is to be construed as a malicious attack on a man, unlike many of the postings in the forum. Dr Wall asked for a fair evaluation of Thieme's doctrine. From what I have read on this forum Truthtesty has made malicious attacks against the man including calling a Fascist etc etc. A number of posts by Synergy October 1997 hightlighted these. Also very interesting is a post of 11 October 2007 confirming Truthtesy's antichristian bias and the that he is not a christian.

So I ask Truthtesty what does having the paper copy of Dr Wall's thesis prove in your argument that you provided his dissertation as asked by Sistersoap? Remember you made the statement that you are "an expert in the truth".

What does the post about totalitarian governments have to do with the issue apart from you trying to deflect the errors you have made? Sounds like you have just read Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". Let us stick to Thieme's doctrinal positions, exegesis etc.

Well done Sistersoap, and keep it up.

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rrmoderator
Please refrain from attacking members of this board personally.

The subject of this thread is Thieme, not any individual member.

Let's be courteous, reasonable and stay on topic.