Prebound quote:" I simply thought some folks would like to know the man died. I have no idea about the validity of his biography. It came directly from the Berachah website obit; I wouldn't waste either time or money to pursue the veracity (or lack thereof) of those points."
Truthtesty: That should tell you something don't you think? After all these years and Berachah still "manufactures" its own "set of facts". Thieme was only a major in WWII.
Prebound quote: "The doctrinal issues are another matter. Like you, I disagree with many of Pastor Thieme's "discovered" doctrines. But I do agree with more than a few things he taught. We'll leave it there for now---I need to leave for my "non-clone church" Wed. night Bible study. "
Truthtesty: I'd have to see the actual "more than a few things" that you agree with Thieme on to determine if you are unawarely coerced by the doctrinal cult teachings of Thieme.
Also, I'd need to know the name of actual church and it's doctrinal statement to determine if it were clone or non-clone.
You are safe with info like Thieme was a major in WWII.
Beyond that you should be very specific as to what you agree/disagree with.
As Dr. Wall said:
SUGGESTIONS TO STUDENTS OF R. B. THIEME, JR.
This section is dedicated to those who are presently studying under
Thieme or who may be potential students of Thieme's. The suggestions listed
below may not apply to every student; however, they are appropriate suggestions
in the light of the author's personal experience as a Thieme student, observations
of current problems relating to Thieme students, and information gleaned from a
number of interviews.
1. Check out anything new that Thieme teaches, by engaging in a personal
study of the Word of God. This can be done fairly easily through the following
means. First, read the text involved in its context from at least two different good
translations. Second, use a good, exhaustive concordance (such as a Young's
Concordance), and notice how particular words, that are significant to Thieme's
new doctrines, are actually used in the Scriptures. The use of a word is the major
basis for determining its denotative and connotative meanings. The Young's
Analytical Concordance also includes a breakdown by the particular Hebrew or
Greek words employed. Third, check with other sources, such as other Bible
teachers or Bible commentaries; for in "a multitude of counselors" (Prov. 11:14)
is deliverance. Be like the Bereans in the Book of Acts, who did not believe Paul
until they had checked him out in the Scriptures (Acts 17:1 1). Fourth, sift
Thieme's teachings, so that you are able to screen out that which is truly biblical
doctrine and that which is an extension of Thieme's opinions and personality. If
you are unable to do such a sifting process, you would be wise to refrain from
studying under Thieme at all.
2. Employ other sources of teaching, such as other Bible teachers and
books written on Bible exposition and Bible doctrine, to help you develop a
healthy, balanced Christian life.
3. Plan to become a personal student of the Scriptures, dependent upon the
Lord and the Scriptures, and not dependent upon men. As soon as possible, move
beyond the stage of sucking strained meat; learn how to carve and chew the meat
of the Word of God for yourself.
4. If you are engaged in studying Thieme via tapes, commit yourself to a
balanced diet, using a large number of taped studies by men like, Stanley
Toussaint, S. Lewis Johnson, J. Dwight Pentecost, and Francis Schaeffer. If you
find it difficult to establish your doctrinal categories, you might find it helpful to
read Major Bible Themes by Lewis Sperry Chafer (recently revised and edited by
John F. Walvoord).
5. As you listen to Thieme, be careful to draw only God's truth from the
message, and avoid emulating Thieme's mannerisms. This word of advice is
applicable, not only to students of Thieme, but to students of any teacher.
6. If you are in an evangelical church where Christ is honored and His
Word is respected, do not feel that it is necessary to leave that church, in order to
study under Thieme in a tape group or tape church. You need the ministry of the
members of the body of Christ one toward another under the authority of church
leadership (elders or pastors).
7. Make certain that any practice of separating from other believers is for
reasons clearly stated in Scripture (gross immorality, rebellion against the
church's elders, or doctrinal heresy). Do not allow a man or his distinctive
teachings to be a basis for separation from friends or family.
8. Do not fall prey to the subtle sin of pride in knowledge.
9. Do not confuse your grasping of truth and the collection of information
(either in your head or in a notebook) with truly being affected by truth and
10. Do not rationalize away the continuing existence of sinful actions and
attitudes (such things as moral compromise, spiritual pride, loss of temper, or
harsh, unloving responses to people), just because you have gone through the
11. Decide to express brotherly love to other believers in the body.
Express it by faith, so that it can be the product of the Holy Spirit.
12. Do not let infatuation with a Bible class hinder you from having a
balanced, Christian life including time to build healthy family relationships, time
to develop Bible study tools, time to build bridges for evangelizing the unsaved,
time to show hospitality, and time to meet various spiritual, material and
emotional needs of other members in the body of Christ.
13. Learn how to be ministered to by ministers who use a different
terminology than Thieme does.
14. Commit yourself to be a healing factor, and promote true expressions
of unity. Do not let the Corinthian error affect you, that is, the error of building a pseudo-spirituality on a man-centered mentality.
15. Be sensitive to the hang-ups and taboos of other Christians. Do not
allow your liberty to become a source of stumbling to others.
For people who have never heard of Thieme it is better to not even get involved because of the serious defects and potential harm in Thieme's extremist doctrinal teachings. It is not worth the time.
Hah prebound it is not the "gall of bitterness", what it is pure joy and happiness of seeing Thieme's evil teachings(which have hurt so many) crumble and burn in the face of truth, with all eyes of the world watching.
It is sheer joy that words can't effectively describe.
Anyhow, I would say thanks for the info, prebound, but Thieme's passing is really irrelevant. Barely worth a technical mention. The danger that still exists to the innocent and/or unwitting are the false teachings that are still around.
To the Forum:
Also, another method of discerning truth from propagandized falsehood I suggest people to seek what is "correct", not what forced to be "right".
"Almost always, it is the conviction that 'I am right' or 'my cause is the cause of justice' that triggers violence. That is, ...the moment propaganda does its work, violence is unleashed. And violence can be reduced by countering this propaganda." Jacques Ellul
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2009 09:29AM by Truthtesty.