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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: September 15, 2012 04:58PM

1 Corinthians 12v7 says 'a spiritual gift is given to each of us SO WE CAN HELP EACH OTHER'
NLT..emphasis mine, obviously


to help, not intimidate..... and we all, from the greatest to the least, have the right - and responsibility - to 'test the spirits'...ie to 'discern' if what we're hearing is from God, as per 1 John 4 v 1

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: September 15, 2012 07:34PM

Quote
Rensil
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cbarb

The youth outreaches on Saturdays with fun activities, I have never heard of and never known such. They must have been stopped. There used to be occasional Barbecues or outings but they were for Sunday School kids. I know SMC hold Youth Weekends in Greenock every few months, because a friend's children used to attend them, when the kids stay overnight in the School or at Cedars house and go to the meetings. On Saturdays they have outings and activities. That's the only stuff I know of. These were for church kids though, not kids outwith the church.


What about the satellite churches like Neath, London and the one called The Refuge ?

Judging from posts made on the other thread on the RR forum theres plenty of activities being focused on the vulnerable and easily indoctrinated young there:

[forum.culteducation.com]

Seems to me that its a sign of the spiritual failure of a church movement, if the only way it can grow its numbers is to go for the ones least able to question and critically assess their ways.

As to the strong element of women and how things appear to have been run and approached differently by past SMC men, as the resident "village sceptic" here - I do wonder whether it is down in part to psychology. There is a growing field of research being carried out in the field of psychology of religion, and i have often wondered whether women may be more predisposed towards an experiential, devotional and mystical approach to their beliefs whether
men have more of a predisposition towards the cerebral, intellectual and propositional aspects - ie the theology.

[epiphenom.fieldofscience.com]

( part 2 )
[epiphenom.fieldofscience.com]

( part 3 )
[epiphenom.fieldofscience.com]

( part 4 )
[epiphenom.fieldofscience.com]

and here

[epiphenom.fieldofscience.com]

Of course its a mix in the real world.

I do have to say - it seems to me that it is essential that one anchors pentecostalism into something more grounded - for example like the Assemblies Of God do with their structure and modus operandi - their attempts to provide accountable leadership.

Compare this with the free-form "anything goes" televangelist faith healer churches like Benny Hinn or Creflo Dollar, where the only time they seem to pay attention to failings in how they run things is when they are exposed and embarrassed by revelations in the secular media.

I strongly suspect that Benny Hinn and the like attract sizeably more followers and donors who are female than male.

It would also be interesting to find out how often it is women in the fundamentalist Islamic world that are encouraging their children to become martyrs instead of men.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2012 07:49PM by Clive.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: September 15, 2012 08:26PM

I should make it clear that the links I put up there weren't intended to suggest that the content endorses or confirms my own hunches as written here.
But just provide material for anyone interested in the ongoing psychology based research .

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: September 17, 2012 05:18AM

Most if not all pentecostal churches have a proper leadership structure and Board of Management. Most if not all ensure that leaders and elders are accountable to those further up or at the Head. Most have male pastors, leaders and elders as well as some women in these positions, which is fine. SMC is totally unique and different in this regard, in having all three main leaders women and most of the branch-church leaders are women aswell. No other church, pentecostal or otherwise, has a structure like theirs. There is obviously something not quite right there. Why is it that down through the years is it always women who are in charge of SMC churches?

I don't think it can simply be explained by psychology because, as I said, most other churches have plenty of men to fulfil leadership roles. Yes, there may be more women than men attending churches and doing all kinds of church-related work, but that doesn't mean there are no men to pastor and lead them; there are men to do it. So I think there's a spiritual problem in SMC which has brought and encouraged control through women.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: September 17, 2012 02:03PM

am pretty sure the next leader after Mrs Gault at the Greenock church will be a man, will that make him the main leader of the movement since that's Mrs Gault's status at the moment?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2012 02:17PM by squareone.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: September 17, 2012 08:18PM

Quote
Rensil
Most if not all pentecostal churches have a proper leadership structure and Board of Management. Most if not all ensure that leaders and elders are accountable to those further up or at the Head. Most have male pastors, leaders and elders as well as some women in these positions, which is fine. SMC is totally unique and different in this regard, in having all three main leaders women and most of the branch-church leaders are women aswell. No other church, pentecostal or otherwise, has a structure like theirs. There is obviously something not quite right there. Why is it that down through the years is it always women who are in charge of SMC churches?

I don't think it can simply be explained by psychology because, as I said, most other churches have plenty of men to fulfil leadership roles. Yes, there may be more women than men attending churches and doing all kinds of church-related work, but that doesn't mean there are no men to pastor and lead them; there are men to do it. So I think there's a spiritual problem in SMC which has brought and encouraged control through women.

Some interesting points there.

Yes, I think one could very much characterise this as a spiritual problem. On top of this I do suspect that there is a self-reinforcing/filtering mechanism going on in SMC, in that the way SMC operates on an experiential and highly emotionally charged level I suspect appeals significantly more to women than to men.

So those women in the church who like this, will want to support any new or upcoming women who seem to be following the same emotional model. And anyone - particularly men - who gives the impression of diverging from this,
- in the way they speak, pray, frame things, will stand out. It will be a subtle even subliminal thing - in that women who like things "as they are and have always been" will have their internal warning bells sounded at the slightest thing that in their struthers mindset - seems an oddity. Of course a man will immediately stand out based on this - merely because the female association is gone.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: September 17, 2012 08:28PM

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squareone
am pretty sure the next leader after Mrs Gault at the Greenock church will be a man, will that make him the main leader of the movement since that's Mrs Gault's status at the moment?


I wonder that if this indeed happens , If that would mark a return to the SMC apologetic I once heard many many years back that the "male" leader - Mr Black - was there to give the official "teaching" and "headship" ( so as to tick the typical doctrinal evangelical stance that women are not to "teach" - are not the "head' of the household etc etc ) but all the same allows the women to be the "spiritual anointed and discerning guru" and - in fact -will carry on being the ones really wearing the trousers.

And does this hunch ( if true ) indicate that in some small way SMC are having to come face to face with issues being raised on this forum ? maybe though, it is not through this forum directly, but because other churches - in particular the charismatic ones in the Greenock and Cumbernauld areas have now become so much more aware of what is going on in the SMC churches that the "word has gone out" amongs the churches to avoid SMC. Maybe people in the regular community at large are starting to get drift too and see their outreach efforts such as coffee shops and youth activities in a different light.

SMC leaders may gradually be compelled to act reactively as a form of damage limitation.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2012 08:36PM by Clive.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: September 17, 2012 09:01PM

what I said may have been somewhat misleading I now see. No, what I meant was that at the Greenock church there was a particular male who, to my mind, would be the natural successor when and if the time comes. Could be completely wrong of course.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: September 18, 2012 12:23AM

Ah, ok squareone.

Would this person perchance be a son of one of the SMC Dynasty or "inner circle" ?


back to the previous topic:- can someone here please give a firm figure for how much was lost in the Mr Black finance fiasco ?

a few hundred thousand ? half a million ? million ? more ?

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: September 18, 2012 03:09PM

Would this person perchance be a son of one of the SMC Dynasty or "inner circle" [Clive]


guess so. He does at least have obvious leadership qualities though. In all probabilty he would lead the church in the same vein as it's now being led, but how do we know for sure? Unless we're now the ones who are all knowing! ;)tongue is in cheek



sorry to be off subject, know nothing about how much money was lost

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