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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: October 07, 2012 08:46PM

Hi guys

Happy Sunday!

Squareone, don't go quiet. There are some people in Struthers who are loving and caring but the problem is that this is not supported by the leaders and more often than not is actively discouraged. However, those who are not 'easily led' will still be able to separate the church from their own feelings of love towards others in need. It's just a pity that none of these people are given the opportunity to take an ACTIVE role in the church (in spite of being members for most - if not all - of their lives). Unfortunately there aren't more of these loving people to be able to get together and stand up for what is right and Biblical. I know of some members of a family who have attended for most of the church's existance who, while they practice loving their fellow man outside of the church, are so ingrained in SMC that they would feel completely LOST without it.

The big problem is that members are told such an awful lot of tosh about the people who have left and most of them just believe it unquestioningly because they have been indoctrinated from very early on not to question anything they are told by their leaders. They therefore don't actually research why people have left or contact the people to find out the truth. The SMC way is rather like the way of ex-president George Bush Jnr. "If they're not with us, they're against us!" That's the attitude of SMC and is what makes it so easy for them to ignore and shun the very people who could contribute so much to the church. When George Bush declared war on terrorism what he left out was the most important piece of information - various USA official groups were and are involved in actively aggitating terrorist groups because war (in any form) creates profits for someone (in this case America's provision of weapons to other countries is a massive part of their economy).

The same applies to SMC, it's what they leave out that is the most important information. They declare spiritual war against those who don't conform and they get away with this by telling half-truths and outright lies about those who don't blindly follow the SMC way. To my mind, these are satan's ways and not God's ways and I believe that satan has a great platform, in SMC, to separate and confound those who are truly seeking God but are misguided enough to believe that they should not mix with the 'unclean'. But we know without a doubt that the 'unclean' were the very people Jesus went out of his way for and taught his diciples to do the same, in fact he told them off if they were reluctant to do so.

SMC don't teach the words of the Bible because they know that they can't justify what they do to people, using Biblical references. They therefore say 'if you're not with us you're against us' and if asked to back-up what they're saying the questioner becomes 'faithless', 'in need of deliverance', 'demon posessed' etc. That absolves them from having to explain themselves in Biblical terms. Very neat and convenient for them! These brainwashing methods are used by every cult on the planet as a means of CONTROLING their fellow man rather than LOVING them. Istead of spiritually feeding their members they CRUSH them into spiritual zombies who can't think for themselves and are afraid to question anything they don't understand for fear they will become demon posessed. However, my belief is that the leaders of the church, Diana Hoar (or whatever her name is now) in particular, are the ones who are truly demon posessed and in need of deliverance.

My prayer for today is that the leaders of SMC will be delivered from evil and denounce their unchristian and anti-Biblical ways because, right now, they are the most unfit people to be shepherding God's flock. I pray that they will be brought to their knees in shame and repentance for the damage they have caused to God's children.

As always, Biiiiiiiig love and huge huggggggs to all.
God bless you all richly xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: October 07, 2012 08:53PM

PS. The 'unclean' in the Bible were anyone who wasn't Jewish. So that's pretty much the majority of the planet and most certainly EVERYONE in SMC!

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: October 08, 2012 12:33AM

Hi guys

Just another P.S.

I found this on another thread on this site and it might as well have been written about SMC:

"1. Does a member’s personality generally become stronger, happier, more confident as a result of contact with the group?

In an abusive church, the use of guilt, fear, and intimidation to control members is likely to produce members who have a low self-image, who feel beaten down by legalism, who have been taught that asserting oneself is not spiritual.

One of the first disturbing characteristics to be reported by relatives and friends of members of these churches is a noticeable change in personality, usually in a negative direction.

2. Do members of the group seek to strengthen their family commitments?
Nearly all unhealthy churches attempt to minimize the commitments of their members to their family, especially parents.

Young people may be told that they now have a new “spiritual” family, complete with leaders who will “re-parent” them.

Church loyalty is seen as paramount, and family commitments are discouraged or viewed as impediments to spiritual advancement.

3. Does the group encourage independent thinking and the development of discernment skills?

Control-oriented leaders attempt to dictate what members think, although the process is so spiritualized that members usually do not realize what is going on.

A pastor or leader is viewed as God’s mouth piece, and in varying degrees a member’s decision making and ability to think for oneself are swallowed up by the group.

Pressure to conform and low tolerence for questioning make it difficult to be truly discerning.

4. Does the group allow for individual differences of belief and behaviour, particularly on issues of secondary importance?

A legalistic emphasis on keeping rules and a focus on the need to stay within prescribed boundaries is always present in unhealthy spiritual envionments.

Lifestyle rigidity in such groups increase a member’s guilt feelings and contributes to spiritual bondage. This rigidity is often coupled with an emphasis on beliefs that would not receive great attention in mainstream evangelicalism.

5. Does the group encourage high moral standards both among members and between members and non members?

In intense, legalistic churches and religious organizations, the official, public proclamations usually place special value on high moral standards.

In some instances, there is a double standard between those in leadershp and those in the rank and file membership.

Abusive churches tend to have incidents of sexual misconduct more often than most conventonal churches; leaders sometimes exhibit an obsessive interest in matters relating to sex.

6. Does the group’s leadership invite dialogue, advice and evaluation from outside its immediate circle?

Authoritarian pastors are usually threatened by any outside expression of diverse opinions, whether from inside or outside the group. When outside speakers are given access to the pulpit, they are carefully selected to minimize any threat to the leadership’s agenda.

Coercive pastors are fiercely independent and do not function well in a structure of accountability.

For the sake of public relations, they may boast that they are accountable to a board of some sort, when in actuality the board is composed of “yes-men” who do not question the leader’s authority.

7. Does the group allow for development in theological beliefs?

Another hallmark of an authoritarian church is its intolerance of any belief system different from its own.

They tend to measure and evaluate all forms of Christian spirituality according to their own carefully prescribed system, adopting an “us-versus-them” mentality.

8. Are group members encouraged to ask hard questions of any kind?

A cardinal rule of abusive systems is “Don’t ask questions, don’t make waves.”

A healthy pastor welcomes even tough questions. In an unhealthy church disagreement with the pastor is considered to be disloyalty and is tantamount to disobeying God.

People who repeatedly question the system are labelled “rebellious”, “unteachable”, or “disharmonious to the body of Christ”.

Persistent questioners may face sanctions of some kind such as being publicly ridiculed, shunned, shamed, humiliated, or disfellowshiped.

9. Do members appreciate truth wherever it is found even if it is outside their group?

Whether they admit it or not, abusive churches tend to view themselves as spiritually superior to other Christian groups.

This religious elitism allows little room for outside influences. There can be no compromise with external sources, who, the leadership will say, really don’t understand what is going on in the ministry anyway.

10. Is the group honest in dealing with nonmembers, especially as it tries to win them to the group?

Sometimes abusive groups illustrate a “split-level religion”. There is one level for public presentation and another for the inner circle of membership.

The former is a carefully crafted public relations effort, the latter a reality level experienced only by the “true believers”.

Recruitment tactics are usually intense, even if they are not actually deceptive or fraudulent, they can be manipulative or exploitive.

Sometimes high pressure religious groups are evasive about there ture identity: “We really don’t have a name, we’re just Christians.”

A healthy Christian group should have no qualms about revealing who it is and what its intentions are.

11. Does the group foster relationships and connections with the larger society that are more than self-serving?

First impressions are not always correct. Sustained contact with an First impressions are not always correct. Sustained con
tact with an unhealthy church, however, will usually reveal a pattern that is consistent with the characteristics we have identified.

Members will be requested to serve, to become involved, to sign up for a variety of activities that, upon closer inspection, appear to maintain the system and serve the needs of the leadership.

Abusive churches thrive on tactics that promote dependency.

Emphasizing obedience and submission to leaders, these churches often require a level of service that is overwhelming to members, resulting in emotional turmoil and spiritual breakdowns."

So it seems SMC are just like any other cultish group and are not unique in any way even although they believe themselves to be bigger and better than anyone else.

Hmmm... it says it all really, doesn't it? And I'll bet there are hundreds more postings just like this about religious groups all over the world.

So, SMC leaders can you defend yourselves against this? I think not!

Much love and hugggs to all.
God bless xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: October 08, 2012 01:49AM

No, as Cbarb also says, please don't go quiet and stop posting. That's the kind of reaction which SMC leaders aim to produce - that if someone asks questions or is told something, they go quiet and stop speaking out. I saw this happen to intelligent people who have done well in their jobs and had rich things to contribute, but early on, were subtley told by SMC leaders in meetings where comments or questions were allowed, or one to one, to be quiet and just listen. So, thinking that they had nothing spiritual enough to contribute, that's what they did and their spiritual and personal (emotional) life has stagnated.

It wasn't just your views about the School, but about the church aswell, but thanks for explaining how you feel. I am just concerned for you too, because I wouldn't want you to get drawn back into SMC, because you thought it wasn't that bad after all. This has happened to several folk. I believe that people who leave SMC have to cut their ties and renounce all involvement with this church, in order to make a fresh start and settle in a new church. If they don't do that, they are in danger of being sucked back in. As I said, I have seen this happen to several folk so I am not making up a story. However, not everyone may agree.

I don't believe that there is a good future for SMC, sorry. If they do repent and see the light, they will have to start mixing and sharing with other churches and ministry organisations, like all the other pentecostal (and other) churches do. They are not prepared to do that and never have been. So I see no future for SMC as it stands. I do pray for the folk in it, though.

Thanks, Cbarb for your information points about signs of a cult. Yes, it could have been written about SMC.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: October 08, 2012 02:25AM

Rensil, I don't really know what you mean. Have looked back at all my posts since I first came on this forum 20 or so pages ago and have said very little in defence of the church other than that I quite liked the singing, that I thought the person who may take over leadership at Greenock has leadership skills, that the congregation, of which I was for a time part, has some responsibility in all of this and that I have hope. Am sorry if I seem to be taking what other people say lightly. It's really not the case.

I do need to take a break. Thank you all again, talk to you soon x

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: October 09, 2012 02:23AM

Hi guys

Bye for now squareone and we hope to hear from you again soon, take care xxx. I know sometimes it gets a bit much to keep opening old wounds when posting here and it can wear you down now and then.

On the up side, you may well be right about Cedars being free from SMC teaching. One of my son's pals told me recently that he knows a lad who attended Cedars and I've asked if he wouldn't mind talking to me about it. From what my son's friend says the lad and his parents are not Christians and don't attend SMC but he isn't sure about the daily life in the school or what, if anything, they are being taught about SMC as a group.

I'm hoping to get a chance to speak to the boy at some point, if he's willing to talk to me, and I'll let you know what I find out. It would certainly put my mind at rest to discover the absolute truth of life in the school and I'll be soooo glad if the boy comes back to me and tells me that there is no SMC mind control and manipulation going on in the school, since that's probably one of the greatest worries about the whole shabang. I'm sure it would take a weight off everyone else's minds too to discover the truth from the 'horse's mouth' so to speak.

On another note, we're currently having some rotten smelly power cuts here in Wemyss Bay so don't be surprised if I go quiet myself for a bit. It's on just now... well that's kind of obvious really coz I'm online at the moment :-) but we can't put the old candles away just yet because the electric board are still working at all hours and they can't promise the power will stay on; so this is just a quickie which I wanted to post before we get cut off again!

Take care all and speak to you soon (I hope!)

Huge love and hugs to all.

God bless xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: October 11, 2012 12:13AM

Hi folks

Well the power has stayed on here although not everyone in the street has been so lucky.

Just thought I'd mention something that happened this morning. Usually when I spend time reading my bible I stick to the New Testament and I was somewhere in the middle of The Acts of the apostles but my bookmark had fallen out of my bible so I'd lost my place. As I was turning pages to get back to where I was, one of my cats started demanding attention and I laid my right hand on my bible (to keep my place) while I stroked him for a bit - to my surprise, when I looked back down at where my hand was, the verses immediately above my right thumb were Jeremiah chpater 25, verses 34-36!! Coincidence? Maybe but very pertinent to what we've been discussing regarding unfit shepherds for God's flock!!

Just thought I'd share that one with you all, I think my jaw actaully dropped!

Take care for now and God bless xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: October 11, 2012 07:01AM

Cbarb, I looked up and read these verses in Jeremiah. Wow! Yes, so very apt and a very real warning to Shepherds of the flock. One of the things SMC leaders used to repeat over and over again was that God is real and people don't like that about God, that He is real and to be obeyed and feared. Perhaps they need to take that on board for their own lives and for the way they've treated people?

I'm taking a leaf out of The Petitor's book and I'm going to quote something Mr Black used to say many times, as we sat there quaking: "The mills of God grind exceeding slow but they grind exceeding sure." Something along the lines of : you reap what you sow even if the reaping comes a long time after the sowing.

Cbarb, can you not get hooked up to a wave or wind turbine out on the Clyde?! So that you'll have electricity?

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: October 11, 2012 07:20AM

Hi Rensil... LOL

I'm OK just now, the power seems to be fine on my block but the electric guys are still beavering away outside so who knows how long it will last. I might just stand on the roof with a windmill if I get cut off again! :-)

I was so surprised by the verses myself that I read the whole chapter and discovered that God gave the false prophets and unworthy shepherds 70 years to get their act together... so how long have SMC got to do this? Is it about another 7 or 8 years or so? I think there may be some interesting times on the horizon.

Lots of love and huggggs
God bless xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: October 15, 2012 08:09PM

Hi folks

Here I am again, the electricity is flowing nicely now whooopi-doo!

It seems that everyone has gone a bit quiet now?

Anyway, here's what's been on my mind this weekend, on the subject of questioning the leaders of SMC.

Lucifer was an angel, much loved by God until he decided that he was just as good as, if not better than, God Himself. God cast him out of Heaven as punishment for getting too big for his boots.

In Struthers we are told that to question the wisdom of the leaders is akin to questioning God. So are they saying that they are God? If so, then they are committing the same sin as Lucifer himself, are they not? Do they believe themselves to be on a par with God or, worse still, better than God? They say they are God's anointed ones but their anointing came from previous HUMAN leaders. We know this to be the truth of what they believe because they say 'I've got Miss Taylor's mantle' or 'I've got Mr. Black's mantle'. What about having GOD'S mantle?

I'm reminded of the 'vision of 10 cities' apparently witnessed by the leader of the Glasgow church in which she states that SHE will be raised over the cities in Glasgow. So here she is openly putting herself in God's place and isn't that exactly what Lucifer did? Those of the congregations of SMC who actually believe this hogwash are no better than she is! To revere a human being above God is a heinous sin but SMC members are willing to commit this sin because they are afraid to question the wisdom and biblical interpretations of their VERY HUMAN leaders. They should be more afraid of what God thinks than what their human leaders think. They should conduct their daily walk with God on a personal level and not through their blasphemous leaders who encourage cliquishness and gossip to be used against their fellow human beings - this is NOT God's way. Here, I'm reminded of misleading gossip suddenly being put across as some devine insight from God. If it wasn't such a serious problem it would be laughable. How can anyone in their right mind actually believe the baloney being spouted from the pulpits of SMC? Have you guys all lost your senses - that you would blindly follow and believe in such disrespectful and totally UNHOLY practices?

NONE of the SMC leaders are anointed or in the least bit holy or discerning because if they were they would be out the doors of the church and wiping the dust off their feet as they went, without so much as a glance backwards! The members of the church are so busy trying to please their human leaders that they've forgotten that the one they should be trying to please is God Himself. Take your blinkers off guys, human beings are not God and never will be no matter how much they might try to hoodwink you into thinking they are. Get your backsides off the pews and go out and do some REAL work for the Lord instead of gossiping about and maligning your fellows in the congregation.

We all know the Bible is very ambiguous in places and open to many different interpretations of what is actually being taught, it is therefore absolutely necessary to discuss and question what we read and understand the Bible to be saying to us. To blindly believe that a handful of 'know-it-all' people have somehow got a better insight into the teachings of the Bible than the rest of the planet is frankly pretty retarded. Considering these people have no qualifications in theology or ministry and have absolutely no knowledge of the history of the world before Christianity, it is laughable to suggest they know better than those who have studied religion and beliefs throughout the history of our world.

One thing the Bible is very CLEAR on is the point of dismissing those who say they have had a 'dream from God' especially if that so-called dream is self-agrandizing and designed to engender support for earthly things (coffee shops, book shops, i-Pads, school teacher's wages etc.) Didn't Jesus throw the traders OUT of the temple? You might say that these ventures are solely to help the ongoing costs of the church but I say, if you can't keep your buildings going by the offerings of the congregation then you need to DOWNSIZE the church to a sustainable level. Let's face it, there aren't enough members left to keep all your buildings going and the financial strain being put on members right now is most unholy. You don't need a school when there are perfectly good schools already provided in the communities in which you opperate.

The reasons for having the school at all are ridiculous. To live a balanced life children must be allowed to experience life, in all its facets. It is only through experience that we grow and become discerning adults. If you shield kids and try to wrap them in cotton wool you can be sure it will one day come back around and bite you. I know this because I've been through this wooly upbringing and my naivety led me into numerous problems when I finally flew the coop. Shielding kids is not how you teach them about life. To grow into balanced adults they need the benefit of experience and to be allowed to make their mistakes in order to learn from them; this is what makes kids into strong adults.

Whew! I think that's my rant over for today (not that I think it will make any difference to those still cow-tailing to the 'anointed ones' of SMC and their unholy teachings).

Much love and huge hugggggs to all.
God bless xxxx

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