'Shows what little trust these people have in gods ability to take care of them, once members dare to make contact with the "unclean''. Preach to them, pray for them, deliver them from demons by all means
but don't associate or break bread with them, because you might get infected.' [Clive]

in a nutshell. Yes that's absolutely the meaning I took from them being directed to be careful who they had in their home. Immature faith and perhaps a misinterpretation of :

'I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such people' ?

Maybe a wee touch ironic that.

Yes, there is a great deal of irony in so many of the behaviors in struthers. On of the ones I find most ironic is the whole coffee shop idea. There is all this stuff about not mixing with the unclean, and being soooo spiritual that you are some sort of Christian mystic. That might have been believable if they did "separate themselves" but they don't, they spend their time making coffee and cakes.

They don't have to do this, it isn't making money, and it isn't brining people into the church, so there is no obvious value. So, the same people that they will not visit in their homes are encouraged to come and spend time drinking coffee and chatting! If it is ok to have coffee and chat, why is it wrong to make pastoral visits?

If Miss T was still around, she would probably be preaching on the evils of latte and cappuccino and telling us that ordinary coffee should be good enough for anyone who was dead to self!

If Miss T was still around, she would probably be preaching on the evils of latte and cappuccino and telling us that ordinary coffee should be good enough for anyone who was dead to self!

That's beautiful but sadly probably very true! :-)

xxx

It wasn't/isn't only the unclean and those out in the world, who we were told not to associate with or let into our home. I was told on two occasions that I remember (there may have been more) not to have certain persons who were members (not new to the church, I add) of the church i.e. SMC, come to my house. I queried this because I found it hard to understand, as we like to welcome people to the home, but I was not given a very satisfactory answer. I was just told that these persons were "not quite with us in spirit" or their "behaviour had not been Christ-like". Being steeped in the SMC way at the time, I listened and didn't have the persons to the house. I regret it now, but I was simply indoctrinated into the SMC way of thinking.

I myself have also been told not to visit certain persons, who were (not new) members of SMC at their house. In two cases, the persons had illness/disabilities and needed support! When I queried this, again, I just got a similar explanation to that above. I remember not feeling very happy about this but, again, I just went with the SMC flow. That's why I can understand why members behave as they do and don't think for themselves but just go by what their leader tells them. The lack of love and care is passed on and infects others there.

Squareone, it may appear to you that there are many happy little social groupings in SMC where they all help one another and socialise together. Maybe so or maybe temporarily so. But I can assure you, that all is not always as it appears. There are many controlling relationships, hostility to outsiders (I mean to those in SMC church itself but not part of a grouping), lack of unity between different age-groups, gossip, self-seeking for positions etc. How can true love flow, if as we have just been reading, there are hardly any pastoral visits to elderly and lonely folk nor invitations to lunch/coffee from the leaders?

there are some genuine friendships there I think..but anyway, yes I'm aware of the gossip...it's called 'discernment' is it not? ;)... and am painfully aware of the hostility to outsiders within the group and the controlling relationships, was in one for long enough.


l guess for the love to flow, the members maybe have to take the initiative and go be salt and light wherever they live and work. I think some do already



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 05:20AM by squareone.

I see a lot of parallels to SMC in the movie "Chocolat".

Methinks the SMC lot could benefit greatly from taking a few lessons from its themes.

They need to focus less on "Fasting For Lent" and a little more on welcoming "River Rats" and "them from outside" wafted in on the wind.

Maybe Rensil, cbarb, and any others who live in Greenock and are ex-SMC, instead of starting your own coffee shop, should open a Chocolate shop opposite them
and serve good drinking chocolate !



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 08:17PM by Clive.

Hi guys

Opening a 'chocolate' shop sounds like a great idea, Clive - I'm a bit of a choco-holic myself! :-)

I remember being told to keep away from my best friend because she was 'demon possesed' but I was fortunate to have the parents that I do because they told me to ignore the advice given to me by Hugh Black, Mary Black and another member (who shall remain nameless because they have left and have since apologised for screwing with my head so badly).

Like I keep saying, how can you profess to be a christian and, not just any christian but a specially anointed christian, but not have any love in your heart or respect for the human race?

'God is LOVE' that's what the bible says but SMC are cliquey, gossipy and the most UN-loving people I have ever met in my life. They are obsessed with looking good to the leaders and appearing to be 'holier than thou' to everyone around them.

Quite frankly, if SMC is a vision of holiness then I don't want any part of their 'holiness' and not should anyone else who truly loves walking with God on a daily basis. Jesus spent the biggest part of his short life teaching and loving the 'gentiles' (not the priests and church leaders of the day - no, he sent them PACKING with some very angry words concerning God's wrath against the false prophets and heretics).

The leaders of SMC should be quaking in their boots with fear of the wrath of God because they won't go unnoticed or unpunished by Him, when the time comes. They will be called to answer for their horrific actions and misleading teachings. Woe betide them!

Biiiig love and 10G huggggggggggs to all.
God bless xxx

Quote
squareone
l guess for the love to flow, the members maybe have to take the initiative and go be salt and light wherever they live and work. I think some do already

Squareone, I can assure you that members have done this kind of thing many times over the years and got no support or encouragement for doing so. Leaders were often not even willing to pray for such exploits at the prayer-meetings because these weren't Struthers events set up by the church but were an individual's idea or vision. Such individuals usually leave SMC eventually, so that they can get on with what God has told them to do without being hemmed in and hampered by controlling leadership. So SMC loses these people who have a heart to love others.

Squareone, forgive me if I'm wrong, but you always seem to be sticking up for SMC and I can't quite understand the way you are thinking. It is important to see the good in everyone and in every group, I agree, but maybe you weren't in SMC long enough to know all the stuff that has happened there over the years.

I think calling those who run the Struthers church, pastors is laughable. I don't think I ever witnessed an ounce of true pastoral care and from what I hear from others, it seems this was the case long before I even knew Struthers existed. My friend was told to have nothing to do with me and I know the same was said to others. I was told by Diana Rutherford that she would not be happy about me making friends with most people in the church while I was in my 'unclean state'

When I went to her, desperate, after having moved 400+miles away from family and friends, to then be totally ostracised in my church, she couldn't have been less caring. When I told her I had previously suffered from depression and I was scared that I was slipping back into it and had considered taking my own life, she said that if she showed me any sympathy or softness she would not be helping me. What the heck kind of heartless person does that? Certainly not someone called by God to shepherd his precious children.

You know, the most ironic thing about all this was, the night after I was told I could not speak to my friend, not even give an acknowledgement to one another in church, was that evening the service was all about unity. It's kind of funny in a sick way now. They may have been united in Struthers but they were certainly not united in love or in Christ

Rensil, what I've said about the school is just my opinion and apart from the speculations on here I haven't heard anything negative from anyone who currently uses it, until I do I'll probably stay positive about it.

I don't want to say how long I was at SMC as it may help to identify me, but it was a period of years, not months or weeks. I think I've said plenty of negative things about it in terms of leadership and teaching. And yes, that's from someone who generally tries to see the good in everything and finds it hard to write people off. Maybe- and this has just occured to me- I come across as being more positive because I also I think there's hope for the future of the church? I don't know, I'll have to think about that one a bit longer.

My comment about the members going out and being salt and light was perhaps not very well thought out, but there was no offense meant to anyone on here, you've all been very helpful to me. It's just that I'm pretty sure there are current members who may read this who, for one reason or another, just can't find a way out of being at Struthers but who could do a little of what Blackwatch eventually did and ignore much of the teaching (or realise that it's not actually teaching) study for themselves and go out and be salt and light in their everyday lives. That way God's love would flow regardless?

Or maybe I'm just coming from too weird a place! I'll shut up for a bit :) x

a quick p.s. Clive, I LOVE the film Chocolat!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2012 04:45PM by squareone.