Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Happy Survivor ()
Date: October 18, 2013 01:38PM

Hi folks!

Corboy, thank you for your last post. I found it very helpful. I came to this forum looking for kindness and community. It is my only community as I will never seek to join any group of Christians again. Every church, it seems to me, is someone's fiefdom. Organised religion seems to bring out the worst in those who participate. I often visit the websites of local churches and try to imagine what it would be like to be part of a warm, loving fellowship and to have a few Christian friends that I could share the joys and trials of life with. But then I draw back and realise that I just can't take the risk. This solitary walk does get very lonely at times but it is safe and simple. I have my God and His Word.

I felt condemned by Clive's recent posts. Maybe I am not turning the other cheek and I should be. I freely admit that at the moment I am thin skinned. I hasten to add that he is fully entitled to post here as was Bingowings and any pro SMC person. I wasn't offended by Bingowings. I was relieved when she was banned because I suspect that the personal attacks she tried to post were directed at me. Maybe if I was a few years down the line I would be thick skinned...I don't know.

I walk past the Glasgow church because the pavement is for the public and I don't see why I should re route my walk because SMC are gathering. I also want to face them and try to overcome my fear of the leaders and of some of the members. I will always be haunted by them. It is an evil movement. They all give me the creeps. When they are en masse in their buildings they are much more confident and self assured than they are when you meet them individually on the street. Safety in numbers, I guess.

Thank you guys, for all your encouragement and for simply posting here. Yes, you are all anonymous to me but you are my Christian friends and my community and you are a blessing to me in so many ways. One day we will meet on the Other Side and we will meet face to face.

Until then...keep up the good work and keep posting!

Happy Survivor.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: October 18, 2013 07:54PM

To whom it may concern:

Personally attacking anyone posting on this message board is against the rules and will not be allowed.

Repeated attempts to denigrate or somehow personally insult or slight other members of this message board will be considered a violation of the rules.

Please refrain from such posts or you will be banned from this message board.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Happy Survivor ()
Date: October 19, 2013 02:49AM


I don't know if your warning was directed at me. Did I unwittingly attack Clive? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. Posting this warning and addressing it "to whom it may concern" leaves us wondering who you are warning.

Posting here is becoming like walking over a minefield.

Is it really worth it I wonder.

Kindest regards,

not so Happy Survivor.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Cornelius Dredd ()
Date: October 20, 2013 01:51AM

RRModerator: noted but don't understand.
Apologies to anyone, for any offence I may have caused.
Regards one and all, Cornelius

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Happy Survivor ()
Date: October 20, 2013 03:03AM

Hi folks!
I feel that this forum is somehow not the place for someone who speaks from the heart and has been hurt by SMC. I do not get some kind of kick out of posting here. Some people clearly do. Maybe there are certain contributors who think that by constantly carping, criticising and nit picking that they are being cool and objective. They really need to sit down before they post and ask themselves why they are following this thread and whether their contribution will serve the purpose of this thread which is to expose the harm of SMC and to warn others.

I still have many concerns about SMC and Cedars School and there is much more that I would like to expose. But, I am getting really fed up with logging on and reading justifiable warnings from the moderator because a certain person is posting here and using this thread to be pedantic and to get some kind of gratification. I never objected to Bingowings. Her motive for posting was to defend SMC. Fine. I have no problem with that. She gets her kicks from SMC. That's up to her. At least we all knew where she was coming from.

Forums are a free for all. I have to accept that. You just have to put up with people flattering their ego if you want to continue to post. I am not prepared to put up with such people.

Congratulations to the one who posts here for kicks. You are subverting this thread. I withdraw from this forum. I will keep my concerns and revelations to myself.

Happy Survivor.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb-again ()
Date: October 23, 2013 01:54PM

Hi folks

I'm thinking that maybe the moderator was just re-iterating the reasons BW was banned and not necessarily having a go at anyone who is currently posting.

Happy Survivor, we are all here to talk from the heart - however hard it might be. There have been many harrowing tales - granted 2 years worth of post disappeared after the domain name switch. However, in those posts were many harrowing tales of families split up, marriages ruined, mental and spiritual anguish and none of these stories is taken lightly or with a pinch of salt.

I myself have had posts banned by the moderator for breaking rules - I accepted the fact I'd broken rules and changed my posts to suit and have avoided having any more posts banned. The moderator would have given BW several chances to make posts without breaking any forum rules - but BW obviously continued to try to make posts that were not acceptable and therefore led to them being banned from the forum.

BW being banned from the forum is of no consequence to us really and the moderator's (sometimes cryptic) posts are only to reinforce the rules of the forum to everyone who READS the forum and not necessarily directed towards those who are currently posting.

None of this is really anything to do with the issues we are discussing here but only to do with the rules of use on this forum so I don't think you need to worry overly much about it.

As far as I'm aware the only contributor who posts here for 'fun' is Clive, who is not and has never been a 'paid-up' member of SMC (although he has family in the church).

As for the rest of us, we HAVE been members of SMC and have all experienced the control and damage caused by the leaders of the organisation. I wouldn't class our posts as 'constantly nit-picking and carping on'. We have brought to light some very serious issues regarding SMC and instigated the action now being taken by the OSCR to investigate the organisation. The Charities Commission wouldn't take our posts seriously if they appeared to be just nit-picking and criticising for fun.

Yes, sometimes we may get bogged down on a particular subject and maybe beat it to death a bit but the main issues remain the same and since we have all posted volumes already on all the issues - including the school and how children are treated in the church - we have nothing fresh to add to what we've already said. Of course, if a poster comes along with some new information or thoughts on the issues we've been discussing then this will move the debate along.

I understand that because of the loss of so many posts, you might not be aware of the full extent of our debate to date but don't think we are just posting for the fun of it. We have been waiting to hear from others who have concerns about the school and children in the church, as well as other issues, because there is no point in the contributors who've been posting for years rehashing old posts and regurgitating the same stories and concerns ad infinitum.

Till now, we have had limited information about the school (other than what is published) and are therefore not in a position to say any more about it than we already have done. These were the posts which originally prompted the OSCR to investigate the organisation.

If you do have further information and really want to help other people to avoid SMC, then it would be much better if you could contribute this information and perhaps help the OSCR with their investigations. We are all very perturbed by the school but have a lack of REAL knowledge regarding it, since no-one here has been closely involved in the school, until now.

I would urge you to share this information, if not with us, then at least with OSCR because only they can make a difference to how SMC operates and you might then be able to stop any more harm being done to children by the narcissistic leaders of SMC. Keeping quiet won't help anyone, so even if you don't post here any more DO tell your story to OSCR - they could do with any help you can give them.

We'd be sorry to see you go though!

As always, biiiiiiiig love and huge huggggggs
God Bless xxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: October 24, 2013 07:18AM

I would re-iterate what Cbarb-again has written above. Thank you for your clear analysis and explanations, Cbarb.

Happy Survivor, take heart and please don't stop posting. Yes, we would like to hear what you have to share about your experiences in SMC and your observations concerning Cedars School. I don't see anything wrong with you doing that on here. If you look back to the very beginning of this Forum Thread, on the first couple of pages, you will see posts in which Covlass described to us in some detail, unpleasant and damaging things which had been happening to her and to others while she was within SMC. These "exposure posts" kick-started this Forum thread and got many other ex-SMC folk involved on here and enabled the truth about what has been happening in SMC for many years to be brought out into the open.

Perhaps you could read these initial posts, Happy Survivor, and remind yourself that several others have written of their experiences, so that you have no need to feel bad about what you have already posted or about what you would like to post. That is what this Forum is for.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb-again ()
Date: November 01, 2013 10:25PM

Hi folks,

I've been having a look at OSCR site to see if anything has been decided yet about SMC continuing to function as a charitable organisation. The review started in September last year and, it seems, is still ongiong - so it's taking quite a long time to complete but I guess they have to give SMC the benefit of the doubt and allow them time to make changes as necessary.

The entry on OSCR site merely states:

Discussions continue with three charities - Fernhill School, Glasgow; Struthers Memorial Church, Greenock; and the International School of Aberdeen - as their particular characteristics require more detailed consideration.

However, on reading the published 'Activities' of SMC (as a charity) I was somewhat surprised by the following statement:

It makes grants, donations, loans, gifts or pensions to individuals,It makes grants, donations or gifts to organisations,It carries out activities or services itself

My question here is: Given that the charity is consistently LOSING money how on earth can they make grants, donations, loans, gifts or pensions to anyone if they can't cover their own expenses??

Also, is there anyone out there who has actually received any of the above mentioned grants, loans, gifts or pensions? It would be enlightening to know how many people/organisations have received these and how much they have received.

According to SMC's own published accounts for 2011, Cedars school was given a subsidy of £79,602 from the collection plates of the 11 churches - this excerpt taken from the Latigo site:

In our article on "the generous gift" we have indicated that in 2009 there was, in addition to the other school income sources, a subsidy taken from the 11 churches collection plates and given to the school amounting in 2009 to £158,142. This seemed to be a surprise to a number of people who have contacted us who believed the claim had been made that the school fees fully covered all the school expenses.

The equivalent figure reported in the 2010 accounts was £83,949 transferred from church collection plate income to subsidise the school.

In 2011 this figure was £79,602.

As you can see, the school has received such subsidies in 2009, 2010 and 2011. It doesn't take an Einstein to realise that this just doesn't equate with the statement of SMC 'Activites' as published on OSCR site. How can they possibly be giving gifts, grants etc. if they can't even cover the expenses of their own school without taking money from the collections given by existing members?

In addition, it is still unclear where the £234,000 in restricted funds has been spent and whether or not this was spent on the intended activities.

So my main question is: Are the activities published on OSCR a lie, concocted to please the Charities Commission, or have the activities of the organisation changed since they acquired charitable status?

I haven't seen the complete breakdown of the expenses for 2011 but perhaps someone who has could enlighten us as to how much is reported, in the accounts, as having been given as grants, donations, pensions etc. during that year?

I had hoped that Happy Survivor might be able to shed some light on the activities of school at least, since she seems to have better knowledge of this than any of the rest of us - I still hold out some hope that we may hear more about this from you, Happy Survivor, but like I said before if you don't want to share this with us we understand but please DO share it with OSCR and help them in their investigations.

It was clear, some time ago, that the members of the church were in blissful ignorance of the fact that their contributions were being used to subsidise the school - in other words, the members were paying their hard-earned cash to a couple of the main leaders families who work in the school. Let's not beat about the bush here - the teachers (who are also leaders and family members of leaders in the church) could say that they used those subsidies to buy I-pads or any other equipment but what it really boils down to is: If the school has been consistently LOSING money then surely they should be cutting back on expenses and SALARIES but it appears that, even although they can't afford it, the SALARIES are still being paid in full - at the expense of the congregation who believe their money is being used to help people and maintain church buildings.

OH YES, they are definitely helping people and those people are the leaders and their families and NOT those who really need help from an organisation which claims to have charitable purposes.

I think I can say, with a large degree of certainty, that Miss T herself would be absolutely raging at the thought of leaders benefiting financially from the donations of the members. As far as I can remember, Miss T was dead against commercialism in the church and probably would have a hairy fit about the coffee shops never mind giving salaries to the leaders of the church and their families.

In my day ALL the time given by ALL the leaders of each branch was done freely and without complaint. This was expected and was REQUIRED of them by God, according to the main leaders of the day (Miss T and Mr. B). So has God changed his mind about this in the intervening years? I don't think so!

In fact, casting my mind back, I do remember the subject of an elite school being brought up on more than one occasion, when I was in attendance, and the idea being met by stern disapproval from Miss T every time. I also have the feeling that the subject was brought up, back then, by some of the same people who are now working in the school (if my memory serves me correctly).

So I conclude that, while the current leaders go on and on about having Miss T's 'mantle' they certainly don't hold to her very strict remonstrations regarding such ventures as elite schools and coffee shops.

Another thing that really 'gets my goat' is the false modesty spewing from the mouths of these leaders about how they never asked for, or wanted to have, the responsibilities of being leaders but that God has chosen them for the position. Not only is that insulting to God, it's also completely untrue because at least TWO of the current leaders engineered their rise to the platform through lies and manipulation. If they didn't want the position, why did they lie and manipulate others to get themselves on the platform??

Anyway, I've ranted enough for now so I'm off for a puff on the old electronic cig. to calm me down :-)

As always, biiiiiiiig love and huge hugggggggs to all
God Bless xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 02, 2013 07:41PM

This message board will be moved over the weekend to a new server at a new ISP.

The move will begin at Midnight tonight and extend through the weekend.

Some posts made during this moving period may may be lost due to the move.

Beginning on Monday the message board will be up and running on the new server.

This is all part of the redevelopment project currently underway for all the Cult Education Institute related Web sites.

Thank you for your patience and understanding during this process.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: seekingsusan ()
Date: November 03, 2013 03:26AM

Hi people,

long time and all that,

I recently came across an old comment posted on the BBC website its from a “Fifi” and posted on the Radio 4 PM programme site: and thought i’d share it here. Maybe “FIFI” can verify this story..

"At the age of 17, and just about to leave school, I couldn't resist the temptation - having been specifically invited to do so - to tangle with my headmaster on matters of theology in a public discussion at the end of my final term.

Our (now late) school Rector, Hugh Black, was, though I didn't know it at the time, the head of the Pentecostal Church in Scotland. I just knew him then as head of the Struthers Memorial Church which I'd stopped going to a couple of years before.

He'd spent most of that lunch hour, batting back perfectly sound logical and rational questions from the floor - each time using this-or-that esoteric quotation from The Bible. I was losing patience with the lack of logical answer; but I knew he knew The Bible a lot better than I did.

So I stuck to what I knew: "Sir, you're answering every question with a quote from the Bible, being careful to stress every single word's exact meaning. But the English version you're quoting from is a translation of a translation of someone's interpretation... etc ... how can you know that what we have today is what was actually meant?"

He glared at me for several very long seconds, hooded his little glittering eyes, and spoke in a strange voice that owed more to The Exorcist than to Greenock:

"Young lady... come the Day of Judgement ... I would not like to be in your shoes."

Game set and match. To me! By being a bully, he'd handed me the popular vote - for the first time in six years at that awful school. Utterly confusing but I knew I hadn't lost anything.

I do hope he's nice and warm now.


On a different topic I heard recently from a friend that the small Struthers satellite church based near London called The Refuge is relocating to Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire and intending to expand their youth and outreach activities in that town.

If anyone here knows of friends or pastors in other pentecostal or evangelical churches in the Aylesbury area, maybe they could warn them to them to discourage any people from getting involved with this sect.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2013 03:28AM by seekingsusan.

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