Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Cornelius Dredd ()
Date: October 14, 2013 08:16PM

Happy! Hello! I'm glad you feel free to post. And it sounds like your anti-phobia incentive will be doing some good for you. It was most likely a basic fight/flight/freeze reaction, after having been threatened, and now you've gained the upper hand, regarding perspective. Well done you and those who won't be cowed.
Better watch though. haha, you'll be spotted and preached about. About how you're now a lost soul, wandering forlornly passed the only spiritually nourishing place on Earth.
Don't be too discouraged that there is nothing we can do. We can continue. It is a worthy cause and they are on the back foot, however they act unperturbed. These definitely are the worst days for smc....until even more people wise up. Which is where we come in. :)
Seriously though, things are changing, take heart and get through your smc phobia. That must be the only phobia I've never had. I would relish attendance at any branch now. I would be interested to see if I could gain entry and if I did I would question much, until asked to leave!
Anyway, glad you are back. They have subdued enough people for too long.
Regards and happy days to you all, Cornelius Dredd

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: October 16, 2013 08:12PM

Some of you may be aware of the USA based QuiverFull movement.

I came across an interview with one of its ex members that seemed so reminiscent of what has been shared here.

Her name is Vicky Harrison and she now runs a blog to help others who want to or are thinking of leaving the "movement"

In the interview link below she talks about how she was treated when she left.

Skip to 45 minutes from the beginning, in order to hear her interview.


She now runs a blog with the heading:

"NolongerQuivering - A Gathering Place for Women Escaping Spiritual Abuse"


Oh - and Cbarb - maybe you might want to consider starting a blog of your own too :)

Time to "come out" ? seems everyone struthers connected already knows who you are
by your own account here...

Now that would be a very suitable outlet for your eager pen !

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2013 08:32PM by Clive.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: October 16, 2013 08:51PM

Cornelius Dredd
Err, I doubt Jesus meant turn the other cheek constantly! Not that I was there but I don't believe he would advocate continuing to let people speak down to their flock. Nor probably for any of that flock to meekly accept abusive, controlling behaviour.

Cornelius: The NT passage isn't ( imo ) meaning that christians should just let violence be done to them endlessly.

No, the passage is instead intended to tell christians that if they are personally "slighted" , humiliated, insulted - which in many cultures - and according to some biblical scholars - is the cultural metaphor of the "face slap" being talked about in the passage. It has particular resonance in those days and in many societies today because, it was considered a deep wound for one to be made to "lose face".

And a face slap is in this context just that - an insult. Making someone lose face. And Jesus is saying "don't rise to the bait" - ignore any attempts by your enemies to insult you - and instead of returning or avenging the slight - the insult- turn the other cheek.

And it is in this sense that I believe the passage very accurately applies to how the three minuscule posts from Bingowings should be viewed. Namely that when it comes to insults - one should have a thick skin.

In any case - just exactly what form of words coming from an SMC supporter here would be deemed "kosher" ?

Are you expecting that they word their replies in some meek - penitent, very carefully penned - ultra diplomatic language ?

Have we here "held back" ?

dont think so. And if we have not, we shouldnt expect pro SMC supporters to either.

At the end of the day - do people here want any form of dialogue or debate with the SMC side or not ? Carry on being ultra thin-skinned like this and you cannot expect to get much in the way of comment from the other side.

But then maybe all some here really want to do is preach to the choir. Kind of what SMC want to do too isnt it ?

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2013 08:58PM by Clive.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 16, 2013 10:29PM

Clive wrote:


Carry on being ultra thin-skinned like this and you cannot expect to get much in the way of comment from the other side.

When people unmask bullying, the bully's standard reply are cliches such as accusations that the protesters are 'thin-skinned' or 'lack a sense of humour' or are 'too sensitive' or 'have taken it out of context.'


Oh - and Cbarb - maybe you might want to consider starting a blog of your own too :)

Time to "come out" ? seems everyone struthers connected already knows who you are
by your own account here...

Now that would be a very suitable outlet for your eager pen !

One standard accusation made is to suggest that persons already speaking out here on Cult Education are doing too little and should start thier own blogs.

* It doing a very great deal when someone gives his or her inside story here on Cult Education. On this thread, many persons have given first hand accounts, so a reader or concerned friend can see many reports all gathered in one spot.

* One, this website and message board are held to a high standard. The message board has existed for ten years. Mr Ross, the owner and moderator, has attracted millions of dollars of pro bono representation from a series of eminent attorneys when various oppressive groups named here tried to sue this site out of existence.

* A lone individual starting a blog would have to start from scratch to obtain his or her own legal advisor and would also be stuck with the burden of cleaning spam out of the comments section. Two, a blog is vulnerable to troll attacks. Moderating a blog is very hard work and no one is obligated to start one--especially when a platform such as's message board is available--and registration and participation are for free.

*This message board is searchable. For example, if someone new to this discussion wishes to study the rhetorical patterns of Clive's posts all one need do is put Clive in the author slot and select 'all dates' for the search.


Have a look at this page It is from 2011

Latigo published some articles.


Resil wrote on August 13, 2011 11:48AM


There are two new excellent articles on the Latigo site. Both have been an absolute eye-opener for me. I had no idea of the information contained therein regarding the church finances, loans, accounts, employees, which ones get paid and who are church "members". I don't remember any of this information being made available at church meetings or announced from the platform by leaders. I knew the Cedars School obtained charitable status but I didn't know that this applied also to SMC as a church and that in fact, it was all one company with charitable status. We were told that the School being a charity meant that now it could apply for grants and fund-raise etc. Nobody ever explained what being a "member" of SMC was in the light of what Latigo has uncovered regarding the special few. I am, to put it plainly, shocked. How can a so-called Christian holiness church walk around covering over everything they are doing? Hiding things from not just the general public, or school parents, but also from the members, you and me, as we were once. Is it any wonder they don't like people asking questions.

Clive replied on August 15, 2011 06:04PM--minimizing the whole thing.


Excuse me, but where exactly is the smoking gun in these supposedly “shocking” revelations about their finances ?.

I took a look through these two new articles and frankly - I think if any of the SMC leaders can be bothered to read this stuff they’re probably
laughing their heads off - if not just yawning. I’ve never seen such nitpicking and pointless pedantry in my life!.

And i speak as someone who is in no way approving of the SMC, as you all know.

But seriously “latigos”. If you think just going through annual accounts with some nitpicking toothcomb and adding the odd “note” here or then - is going to
have the attention of the SMC youre seriously deluded.

So in 2009 the church had a few hundred thousand in debt ? so many of the leaders turn out to be involved in running the finances too - big surprise.

Honestly guys LESS IS MORE !. I cannot see anything here to cause shock. As the police say - nothing to see here - move on.

Just raising so called “questions” all over the place is frankly just pissing in the wind. Get real chaps. The way the Latigo web site is starting to
pad out makes me wonder if the person/persons behind this site are more screwed up than the SMC is itself.

I really am beginning to think that people in the SMC, having taken the odd look at this latigo site are just having a good bemused snigger at it all, and its
overblown pompous self importance.

And NO - I repeat I am no SMC sympathiser, but get honestly, this Latigo site really does not paint our concerns and grievances here in a good light.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2011 06:08PM by Clive.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 16, 2013 10:31PM

''Your recent private e-mails to a number of the contributors to this forum have possibly not given you the answers you wanted. Nevertheless my suggestion to you would be to stop trying to interfere with what people what to say here, on Latigo, or anywhere else and let the information that is out there help whoever it can.''

on the next page


Chester55 wrote August 15, 2011 08:43PM



Quote from Clive :
And NO - I repeat I am no SMC sympathiser, but get honestly, this Latigo site really does not paint our concerns and grievances here in a good light

Can I invite you Clive to resist the temptation to speak for other people.

If you mean the Latigo site does not paint YOUR concerns and grievances here in a good light (whatever that actually means) you are free to say that and other contributors here can either agree or disagree with you. Your use of the word "our" is inappropriate. Your views expressed here are in no way what I as a contributor to this forum feel, so please don't suggest there is a common view.

Perhaps you should speak for yourself and by that avoid the danger you see in others of sounding pompous.

Your recent private e-mails to a number of the contributors to this forum have possibly not given you the answers you wanted. Nevertheless my suggestion to you would be to stop trying to interfere with what people what to say here, on Latigo, or anywhere else and let the information that is out there help whoever it can.


Chester55 wrote:


But the worst part of your story is how they can sit and appear to be listening to you but then dismiss your pain completely. In that many of us seem to be testifying to the same thing. They are not listening. They are just waiting for us to stop talking so they can try to crush us with their never varying take on how we must be the ones at fault as nothing they ever do could possibly be wrong.

How did they end up here? When did it become impossible for them to listen and hear with their ears and understand? As The Petitor says: how can they continue to pretend that they have no idea how much they are hurting people? And no idea how many people they have hurt? Many of us have told them this in detail before we left, and this has been going on for years. It seems each one of us they mentally dismiss as a failure and move on to the next selected person trying the same failing approaches to control and clone people into their image. No question or pause to see if that is what God wants. No check to see what the bible says. No accountability to anyone. If you complain who decides if it is legitimate? They do themselves! And the very fact you are complaining shows how unspiritual you are. If they are criticised it is spoken of as “opposition” and proof they are doing God's work.

This is delusional, self serving, shameful Pharisaical nonsense.

Thank you for speaking up and sharing your experience. I think it will be very helpful to a lot of people inside and outside Struthers. Like you I thank God daily that He brought me out to a healthy and real faith with the support and guidance of people who actually know what they are doing.

And welcome to the forum too Grace-girl.

Chris19 is so right. There is a life beyond SMC and there are so many healthy churches out there where qualified and trained people will help you become who you were always meant to be in God. Struthers pretends that is their goal but they leave most people in the pew literally for decades to sit and listen while they and their favourite daughters (mostly) drone on. As far as I know not one Struthers leader has ever attended a bible college or received pastoral training. (If they have let's hear it.) Before they complain that this is unnecessary let's ask the teachers and nurses who are in Struthers how many of them would have those jobs with no formal training whatsoever. Not one. Yet the Struthers teaching is that the church doesn't need this. All a leader needs is to say they are called by God to leadership, then everything they do after that is beyond question and criticism.

Well the damage to people lives reported on this forum declares that leadership approach in Struthers is not working.

This forum has been running for months now. Since you left more recently, Grace-girl, do you have any insight into what is happening in Struthers at the moment? Is there any sign at all that the leadership are realising that there is a serious set of complaints now in public and that they have to do something to address these – or are they just dismissing it all and trying to explain it away? Or worst of all are they pretending it is not real as long as they ignore it? Anything you can tell us would be interesting. Some of us left a long time ago!

Finally The Petitor - well done for calling out anon201062 to bring forth his promised army of 1250 happy Struthers people. I hadn't remembered he had made that point about checking facts before posting! Covlass should get an apology.

It does draw attention to the fact that the real enablers in Struthers are the members who support it financially. Until they take responsibility for what is happening, and has been happening unchallenged for many years, then the harm is very likely to continue. My view is that like most organisations the leadership will not change because they recognise the hurt they are causing, or because it is the right thing to do. They will change when they are obliged to by the congregation who will no longer finance the leaders until they commit to change and addressing the problems.

Unless that happens, as the Petitor says, they are simply “following orders” funding more problems for more people. If they believe in God then they will presumably believe they need to be ready to explain to Him one day why they enabled that. Those who have posted on this forum cannot directly change anything in Struthers but at least we will be able to say we spoke up and told the truth and did not pass by on the other side while people were hurt and suffering.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 08:51PM by Chesterk55

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Cornelius Dredd ()
Date: October 16, 2013 11:01PM

No need to waste your time explaining what a biblical metaphor is Clive. And Bingowings didn't, as far as I'm aware, actually cause any offence.
My attempt was a subtle plea to you to just drop this thick-skin guff.
smc leaders have had years to answer here and openly. You seem to be saying that those who have had the most heinous treatment by smc should just "not take offence". I'm sure no one was offended by the absurd Bingowings, but I have to disagree. This platform is really more for information about the practices of smc and the nature of their "true desire".
You are very wrong about holding back though. Have you actually got any real idea how deep the rabbit-hole goes? C'mon man, you do so know it!
Do we have a debate or or any form of dialogue with smc leadership? No. They refused that option by inaction.
Also you are wrong about anyone here being "ultra-thin-skinned". The fact that you even say that is downright derogatory. Not to me though, got my rhino-badge a long-time ago. :)
But I have real concerns that your posts are being read by silent witnesses. They are the victims who may wish to comment but then change their mind because they see you doing this. Gonnae stoap it, big man? We know the score here, all of us. Certainly we will never get a balanced dialogue with smc...which is why we nurtured this forum into a safe place to go public. I think.
If that offends you, well, grow a thick skin!! ta-da!
Seriously though, we aren't preaching to the choir without good reasons. You should be able to work that out...think about it...
But can I just add Clive? Funniest quote I've seen on here. You to Corboy: "Ezekiel eh?"
Man alive it took me about 10 minutes to gain control. However, I don't imagine Corboy is living under a cloud of offence.
Anyway, you are harping on about a subject that is historical. And, if I may be so bold, irrelevant other than an indication of how "anointed" smc royalty speak to people. 3 posts were worth a book.
Let's get back on track?
Regards all, and happy days, Cornelius Dredd

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: October 17, 2013 06:06AM

I'm glad to say that my skin is in much better condition now than it was when I was still in SMC. When I was still in, I developed a thick skin so that I wouldn't need to feel the pain of others or think about people who had left SMC and were badly hurt. My skin is now much thinner, so I am now able to sense the woundings and pain in other people's lives. My emotions now function normally. I have feelings now because I no longer live under the control of others, be they SMC leaders or controlling SMC members. When you're under control of others, you don't have to think for yourself or care about what anyone thinks or feels if it is contrary to what you are being taught at church. You lose your compassion, your sense of empathy, your love for those close to you and your ability to make decisions accordingly.
So I am glad that my skin is now thin.

SMC leaders do read this Forum thread and have reacted to some of the information by trying to introduce new events, have more outreaches etc. Then, OSCR are also investigating the SMC charity. You can read a new article on Latigo about the new Financial Assistance policy for Cedars School, for example. This Forum thread has been and is doing a super job and we're not going to stop posting or responding to pro-SMC criticisms.

Happy Survivor, I know what you mean when you write about the phobia concept and it's quite ironic that SMC make a big thing about delivering people from phobias of various kinds. I too, have felt these "fight and flight" fear symptoms if I bumped into an SMC member at the shops, for some time after I left SMC. One lady I know almost fainted in a supermarket when she came face to face with an SMC leader who just "glared and stared" at her. The lady couldn't go back to that supermarket for weeks afterwards. That is like a phobia. I am much better now and I no longer get these phobia symptoms if I bump into a member although I do still find this an unpleasant experience. I wouldn't be keen to walk past their churches or visit their coffee-shops, though. Best wishes to all. Keep up the recovery!

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb-again ()
Date: October 17, 2013 06:19AM

Hi all

No, Clive, I don't think I'll be starting my own blog - why re-invent the wheel?

The simple fact is that the moderator is here to ensure no one breaks any of the forum rules - to which we are all held accountable - if someone repeatedly breaks the rules, they are banned - simple.

We are asking for answers to some very serious accusations of spiritual and organisational corruption, if someone from SMC were to come here and answer some of these serious questions we would be all ears. There are far more serious issues being discussed here than the lack of any rule-book or accepted conduct documents, not least of which is the question surrounding the level of corruption in a charitable organisation. If there are perfectly plausible explanations for the actions and financial decisions of the directors, we will accept those. We still await the outcome of the investigation by OSCR into the business and charitable practices of the organisation and hopefully this will help to answer some of the questions previously asked here.

It's clear that the posts to which you are referring were not intended to answer any questions but just to spread some bad feelings around. We are a thick-skinned bunch and are not offended by mere words - I don't think anyone said they were offended - perhaps we may have been had the moderator allowed the posts which got BW banned. We did not ask the moderator to ban BW so all this talk of 'turn the other cheek' is completely moot here since we all gave quite sensible answers to the posts made by BW, considering they were about one of the more trivial aspects of the debate and not really to be taken very seriously, in view of the more serious issues being discussed here. SMC is a destructive, corrupt and controlling organisation - which doesn't produce a rule-book! ...... Spot the least uncomfortable issue for an SMC person to introduce themselves to the debate with.

We know the rule-book doesn't exist and the whole debate around it has been tongue-in-cheek from the beginning but perhaps too subtle for SMC'ers to catch. Let them come and answer the more uncomfortable questions - they will find a willing audience.

As always, biiiiiiiig love and huge huggggggggs to all
God Bless xxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Chris19 ()
Date: October 17, 2013 06:31AM

Like many on this forum I can testify to the damage and manipulation I experienced during my time at SMC. However I find myself more often than not agreeing with many of Clive's posts. I have never supported him publicly before as I hate conflict and didn't want to risk putting myself in the firing line. However, in my opinion he has correctly asked for caution on occasion and sometimes questioned the way things have been interpreted. It's healthy to be challenged. SMC stifled debate and disagreement. Let's not go the same way - so long as different views are courteously expressed I for one would prefer to hear them.

I don't really understand what happened to Bingowings - what they said on the open forum certainly didn't offend me so I can only presume that things happened behind the scenes which were inappropriate. Their request for more info on the rules etc was I think valid in light of much criticism and it got me thinking. I can't speak for anyone else but the rules were given to me in several ways eg from the pulpit when the evils of "carnal sins" were spoken off, through one to one "counselling" from leaders when I was clearly told what was expected eg not to wear pierced earrings, and thirdly through testimony - I quickly learned what was expected through hearing the testimonies of the approved and favoured ones - if God had told them something was wrong (eg having a record collection) and they repented and disposed of it and then had an amazing spiritual breakthrough then I unconsciously presumed it pointed the way and so I took on board a whole load of stuff which was never directly spoken of by the leaders but which had at least their tacit approval.

Some of the rules were inflicted but others I willingly embraced. I don't blame the leaders for all of them. Yes they encouraged and nodded approval but at the end of the day I chose whether to obey or disobey. Being brain washed through hours of meetings and in the rarified atmosphere of camp made having independence of mind almost impossible and resulted in me making some very bad decisions. I recognise that for some of those involved in the church as children, additional pressure from church-going parents created a suffocating demand for conformity with little room to exercise freewill. However as an adult this wasn't the case for me. I have accepted the role my own decisions played and despite how controlling and misguided the organisation was I still believe that at its heart was the desire to please God.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 18, 2013 12:20AM

For one who is in a boxing match, a bloody nose is part of the game and to be expected.

But for one hit hard by a trusted loved one, a bloody nose will come as a shock and heavier freight of suffering than for the boxer.

Thing to keep in mind is that many here are still faithful Christians. And are trying to make sense of Struthers within the perspective of Christianity. There is a depth of pain when one's heart has been used and abused in a church.

Its like someone who has been hit in the face by a trusted person.

If one has been in that same church and resolved matters by leaving Christianity altogether, one has removed lot of emotional investment from the situation.

And if one gives up Christianity altogether one no longer carries the burden of trying to remain a Christian while making sense of feeling used and betrayed by those who uttered the name of Christ.

And if one gone yet further and decided atheism is a satisfactory stance, one is yet further removed from feeling any emotional impact when bingowings and others appear and make wounding remarks directed at those who left Struthers.

The tough minded person who has become skeptic or especially atheist will lack a vulnerability that the others have. He or she might perceive bingowings and such as interesting, vigorous opponents.

Enjoying debate for debates sake, they may even feel the moderator has deprived them of a worthy fight opponent by banning bingowings for violating terms of use.

This thread is not for the entertainment and amusement of those looking for a mere fight. There are other venues in cyerspace where that is available.

Those those who remain Christians and are still smarting from time spent in Struthers may feel bingowing's comments were wounding, not at all interesting, because they came here for community and validation, not for a the emotional equivalent of a boxing match.

Struthers was already harsh enough. That harshness should not contaminate this discussion. That is why it is moderated.

The person who resolves the Struthers experience by becoming a tough minded skeptic or atheist may well enjoy vigorous opponent such as bingowings and feel free to enjoy the raucousness because his or her heart is no longer in the matter. They may feel that banning bingowings robbed them of a worthy debate partner.

Those whose hearts are still involved are not here looking for a wrestling opponent. They appear to have come here looking for community and kindness.

If someone just enjoys debating for debates sake, there are other venues where this is available.

Here is an older page from this discussion.


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