Can anyone explain to me how Reform congregations serve shrimp cocktails at their brunches? I know this may be off topic and you don't have to approve it but if we're discussing Judaism vs. other religions can you please explain to me how one breaks the laws of Kashrut which are central to Judaism to my way of thinking, and still be in the realm of "Judaism".

It's true.

Some members of Reform Judaism (UAHC) keep kosher and some do not.

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rrmoderator
It's true.

Some members of Reform Judaism (UAHC) keep kosher and some do not.

I had gotten into a series of debates against some orthodox Jews who leveled the criticism against both the Conservative and Reform movments in regards to lack of standards. There is a case to be made in this regard.
Nevertheless, I found that orthodox Judaism also has some lack in this regard too. It's a matter of "how high is up" I found.

Christianity vs. Judaism

It's very true that Christianity and Judaism diverged a long time ago. It's also probably true that Jesus would hardly recognize Christianity today because as far as I could tell Brother J(as my favorite singing Rabbi, Shlomo Carlebach, used to call him) used to keep the basics at least of the Tenach (Torah, Prophets, and writings). He seemed to get into arguments over certain issues like that of faith healing on the sabbath.

I read the Catholic Encyclopedia some years ago because I had a Catholic boss when I was at AT&T and the man treated me like gold. So I wanted to know what made him the way he was. The encyclopedia said that in the conflict between the synagogue and the church it was the Jewish community that struck the first blow. Nevertheless, some people would maintain that it was Jesus himself who struck the first blown by calling the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes hypocrites.

The first Christians were weeded out of the Bet Hamikdosh(2nd Temple) after the institution of the Birchat Haminim or "Curse of the Slanderers" which was incorporated in the "Amidah" ("Standing Prayer") also called the Kedusha ("Sanctification") and the "Shmoneh Esrai" (or "18 Benedictions"). It's actually the 12 out of 19 prayers in the Kedusha which still was never renamed and is referred to as the 18 Benedictions. It was composed by someone named "Shemuel Hakatan" or Samuel the minor. It says that all slanderers and sectarians should perish and that wickedness should be cut off immediately.

The Jewish establishment seemed to believe that whatever it was looking for in a messiah, Jesus wasn't it. And to this day one of Judaism's central prayers is "Ani Maamin" which means "I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the messiah and though he tarry, I'll wait for him daily. This prayer is actually one of Rabbi Moses Maimonides (aka the Rambam) 13 articles of the faith which is an almost universally accepted code in Judaism.

Jesus criticized at least certain members of the Jewish establishment (actually the whole establishment, scribes, priests- Sadducees- and the pharisees ie the payrushim or interperators). The establishment retaliated by banning his followers from participation in Jewish worship and ultimately in crucifying Jesus. His sect was probably seen as inconsequential and the Jewish leaders probably thought that his movement would die, but history didn't work out that way.

Christians have long maintained that the Tenach contains many references to him, but devout Jews have long maintained that those scriptures are taken out of context and stood on their head. This is truly an issue that divides the Jewish world from the non-Jewish one as even the Moslems accord him the status of prophet and some form of messiahship. The Hindus and Buddhists also accord him status. But I wonder if they accord him status because he criticized the Jewish leaders.

As a side note, Aish Hatorah's website claims that Jesus couldn't have been a prophet because in order for prophecy to exist, the majority of the Jews have to live in Israel. I take that with a grain of salt.

The one thing I can say is that until his movement spread, monotheism didn't catch on. The 3 best salesmen for monotheism were Abraham, the first Jew, Jesus and Mohammed. I'm a Jew by birth and my people fought basically every major civilization(Amalek, Caanan, Babylon, Philistia, Rome, Greece) and were the only monotheists until his teachings were promoted. It's true that the church did some horrible things in his name but I think the average church leader today and certainly the recent Popes, have come a long way in terms of having to atone for the tresspasses of the past. It's acknowledged in the Jewish community that the majority of the American support for the State of Israel comes from 40 to 60 million born again Christians.

I take it that Jesus was a man of great insight. He saw that through his death many good things would happen. There certainly are many social service organizations that are Christian. He also said that he came to bring abundant life and Rabbi Samuel Intrator, the former rabbi of the Carlebach Shul once said ("If people find love and warmth in Christianity, who are we, who are we to tell them ....[not to be Christians]".

As bad as the Shoresh Yishai cult was, my mother told me one time "That was the best one you had." In that cult I was occupied 5 times a week minimum. Saturday services, Sunday also, a Bible study once a week, a Thursday night coffee house and Friday night services." I started studying Talmud and classic Jewish sources as well as the Christian literature. That included going to Carlebach concerts and to Chabad for additional Jewish schooling. All endorsed by Jack ("Abba Yaakov

Abensur") Hickman. And Hickman's co-pastor, John Hove, later on converted to Judaism and is now affiliated with the Young Israel movement.

Whatever my problems were, I was not on drugs or alcohol and I had no problems with the law. I had friends, girlfriends etc..

My best friend in the cult had an IQ of 180. Twenty points beyond Einstein's from what I read. So bright people can be fooled too.

I'm currently reinvolved with Christianity and my life is very full one. I go to 5 Bible studies and services a week, I've met new friends and gotten quite a few things from the church and its people in material goods. I'm disabled and I couldn't get around without this situation I'm in.

I don't mix apples and oranges. I go to a church and I don't call it a shul or a synagogue. I'm proud of my church family and I'm happy they let me join.

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rrmoderator
Raina:

You are all born-again Christians and based upon your statement are actually Baptists by theology.
Having a Jewish relgious background doesn't make you "Jewish," which is a religion not a race or nationality.


It appears that some members of your church might be correctly called apostate Jews. That is, they were once Jewish, but have chosen to convert to another religion.


Though Christianity historically was founded by Jews, it quickly became a seperate religion with its own distinctives.

Rick, most orthdox rabbis would tell you that Jews who became Christians are still Jews, but are apostate Jews (Heb. [i:33bef574d2]Meshummadim[/i:33bef574d2]) or Jews who are "spiritually destroyed."

[quote="rrmoderator]
Jews are not a race, nationality or simply an ethnic group, but historically and practically defined as a group of religious adherents.

They might call themselves apostate Jews, or Christians, Muslims, Buddhists with a Jewish family background, but they are not simply "Jews" without qualification.[/quote]
Jews are part of the race of semites and the arabs are our kinsmen. We are an ethnic group. I don't believe that Judaism is one main religion. There are many versions of Judaism, including variants of orthodoxy.

My girlfriend's mother says that their family is Jewish, but they go to the same church as me, which is Baptist.
She said if youre Jewish there is a disease called tay-sacks that comes from a gene defect that Jewish people have more often, so if being Jewish is just a religion, I don't see how that can happen.
She says being Jewish is more like being a race than a religion.

Does anyone know about that?

andychee:

Some white European Jews have that gene, but their race and ethnic background would not change the fact that if they are now Baptist, they have become identified as another religion, which is Chrsitan.

Just to make it easier to understand, a person could be a Baptist with a family history that included Jews or a Jewish background.

Or a person could be an apostate Jew that has coverted to Christianity.

The point is that you can't be two religions at the same time and that Jews are not one race, nationality or ethnic origin, but like Christians from many races, nationalities and ethnic backgrounds.

There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Russian Jews, American Jews, etc. etc.

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rrmoderator
andychee:

There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Russian Jews, American Jews, etc. etc.

Yes, there are but these people all hav it in common that the origin of their stock was Israelite in origin having been descended from Jacob.