Re: Warren Whitlock, Ben Mack, NLP, CallMeDr.com Viagra for sale
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: January 28, 2010 09:54PM
I ran a complete security check on my machine after looking at the warren whitlock site and it came up clean.
The problem with these guys is that once they are seen to be deceptive in one area they lose all credibility in all other areas also. I have no problem at all believing that malware was deliberately attached to the site in an effort to make money any way possible from anyone unknowing enough to assume that the site is primarily what it purports to be.
I am currently reading 'The Game' by Neil Strauss about 'Pick-Up Artists', not because I want to learn the tricks (way too old and jaded for that) but because it supposedly shows how these guys become so voracious in their 'game' and use their persuasive tricks on everybody and each other to the point of total breakdown. I can see parallels between the way cult leaders and types such as Death Ray are completely taken over by the 'game' they have spun for themselves.
I don't have any sympathy at all for those who knowingly employ this technique--hoist by their own petard is the cliche that comes to mind---but the devastation wrought on those they come into contact with is mind-boggling. Even me, momentarily visiting a website, has had my faith our common humanity taken down a notch.
Buyer beware, even blog-reader beware.
The problem with these guys is that once they are seen to be deceptive in one area they lose all credibility in all other areas also. I have no problem at all believing that malware was deliberately attached to the site in an effort to make money any way possible from anyone unknowing enough to assume that the site is primarily what it purports to be.
I am currently reading 'The Game' by Neil Strauss about 'Pick-Up Artists', not because I want to learn the tricks (way too old and jaded for that) but because it supposedly shows how these guys become so voracious in their 'game' and use their persuasive tricks on everybody and each other to the point of total breakdown. I can see parallels between the way cult leaders and types such as Death Ray are completely taken over by the 'game' they have spun for themselves.
I don't have any sympathy at all for those who knowingly employ this technique--hoist by their own petard is the cliche that comes to mind---but the devastation wrought on those they come into contact with is mind-boggling. Even me, momentarily visiting a website, has had my faith our common humanity taken down a notch.
Buyer beware, even blog-reader beware.
Re: Warren Whitlock, Ben Mack, NLP, CallMeDr.com Viagra for sale
Posted by:
buffman
()
Date: January 29, 2010 03:19AM
It's impossible to know whether these guys were attacked by malware or installed it themselves, but I agree with Stoic that once they are seen as deceptive in one area they lose credibility in all other areas as well.
For instance, Kevin Kelly's blog was also attacked by malware recently, but I find his report totally credible:
[www.kk.org]
For instance, Kevin Kelly's blog was also attacked by malware recently, but I find his report totally credible:
[www.kk.org]
Re: Warren Whitlock, Ben Mack, NLP, CallMeDr.com Viagra for sale
Posted by:
Christa
()
Date: January 29, 2010 08:52AM
Quote
The Anticult
[SNIP]
Also, they are using some type of SPOOFING on that website.
For example, if you search Google for their website bestsellerauthors.com/blog
something weird happens.
The title page says...
______________________________________
[This is Google's cache of [bestsellerauthors.com]. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 18 Jan 2010 11:05:24 GMT]
[74.125.47.132]
FREE GENERIC VIAGRA, VIAGRA FOR SALE IN KANSAS CITY
free generic viagra, viagra for sale in kansas city
viagra on sale
cheapest viagra uk
viagra tabs
viagra side effects
cialis cheap
____________________________________
Then there is a HUGE list of links selling viagra.
Right below the dozens of viagra links is the Warren Whitlock BestSellerAuthors.com website. So the viagra sales links were inserted above the website, to make money off link click referrals.
So someone is spoofing the website with viagra links to make money[SNIP]
WOW! Google HATES that. It violates their rules, and they discuss it explicitly at Google Webmaster Central.
It sure would be a shame if these sites got reported and taken down. I mean a real shame. Really, I do. A shame.
From Google Webmaster Central:
Hidden links are links that are intended to be crawled by Googlebot, but are unreadable to humans because:
* The link consists of hidden text (for example, the text color and background color are identical).
* CSS has been used to make tiny hyperlinks, as little as one pixel high.
* The link is hidden in a small character - for example, a hyphen in the middle of a paragraph.
If your site is perceived to contain hidden text and links that are deceptive in intent, your site may be removed from the Google index, and will not appear in search results pages. When evaluating your site to see if it includes hidden text or links, look for anything that's not easily viewable by visitors of your site. Are any text or links there solely for search engines rather than visitors?
[www.google.com]
Also:
Cloaking, sneaky Javascript redirects, and doorway pages
Cloaking
Cloaking refers to the practice of presenting different content or URLs to users and search engines. Serving up different results based on user agent may cause your site to be perceived as deceptive and removed from the Google index.
Some examples of cloaking include:
* Serving a page of HTML text to search engines, while showing a page of images or Flash to users.
* Serving different content to search engines than to users.
[www.google.com]
Re: Warren Whitlock, Ben Mack, NLP, CallMeDr.com Viagra for sale
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 29, 2010 01:37PM
That of course is the problem.
Once dozens of lies have been spotted, they have lost all credibility. They now have to literally prove everything they say with hard evidence.
For example, Dave Lakhani must prove his claims he has made in his advertising with actual evidence.
Just trying to ignore everything is not going to work.
They don't teach their covert persuasion students that when you get busted for persuading/lying, your lose all credibility.
Like the old phrase, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Once a guy fools you a couple times, then they have lost all their credibility.
But it does make logical sense.
Look at the definition of covert persuasion by Dave Lakhani, its exactly the same process as installing malicious software on people's computers. They implant a malware program on your computer without your awareness, slipping it past your computer defenses, and then it spreads to others computers.
Its the exact same process.
[forum.culteducation.com]
'Subliminal persuasion occurs when you are able to successfully implant a message in the mind of a person or group of people whom you target for change without their conscious evaluation of the change, and encourage them to spread the idea organically to their associates.' --Dave Lakhani
Once dozens of lies have been spotted, they have lost all credibility. They now have to literally prove everything they say with hard evidence.
For example, Dave Lakhani must prove his claims he has made in his advertising with actual evidence.
Just trying to ignore everything is not going to work.
They don't teach their covert persuasion students that when you get busted for persuading/lying, your lose all credibility.
Like the old phrase, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Once a guy fools you a couple times, then they have lost all their credibility.
But it does make logical sense.
Look at the definition of covert persuasion by Dave Lakhani, its exactly the same process as installing malicious software on people's computers. They implant a malware program on your computer without your awareness, slipping it past your computer defenses, and then it spreads to others computers.
Its the exact same process.
[forum.culteducation.com]
'Subliminal persuasion occurs when you are able to successfully implant a message in the mind of a person or group of people whom you target for change without their conscious evaluation of the change, and encourage them to spread the idea organically to their associates.' --Dave Lakhani
Re: Dave Lakhani, cult mind control tactics, covert manipulation
Posted by:
Penelope
()
Date: January 29, 2010 04:39PM
It's amazing that Lakhani has the nerve to try to pull his BS on a site like this. Reading his responses were infuriating; Christa you brilliantly called him out on specific tactics, it was a relief to read your replies to his nonsense. And Anticult, this is the stuff you've warned people about in other threads, it's fascinating to see it being done right in front of your eyes. The complete arrogance of people like Mr. Lakhani is just astounding. Based on his posts there seems to be an underlying contempt for his fellow man and woman, he must rationalize his underhanded tactics by thinking most people are stupid and deserve to be conned.
Just like Bill Harris in response to McDufee's criticism, he resorts to threats and intimidation and personal insults. If these people were legit they would present real evidence to refute what they say is false information about who they are and what they (or their products) do.
And Mr. Lakhani, the people on this forum do make the world a better and hopefully safer place (and for free, what a concept!) by really exposing cult techniques and encouraging critical thinking skills. They don't teach people how to use these cult like techniques in order to exploit others. Repeatedly saying you don't and that you're just trying to help people doesn't make it so. One has to just look at your reading material to know what a bold-faced lie that is.
Again, thanks Anticult and everyone who posts here regularly. I have sought out hypnotherapy in the past to help deal with anxiety disorder and I'm much more wary now.
Just like Bill Harris in response to McDufee's criticism, he resorts to threats and intimidation and personal insults. If these people were legit they would present real evidence to refute what they say is false information about who they are and what they (or their products) do.
And Mr. Lakhani, the people on this forum do make the world a better and hopefully safer place (and for free, what a concept!) by really exposing cult techniques and encouraging critical thinking skills. They don't teach people how to use these cult like techniques in order to exploit others. Repeatedly saying you don't and that you're just trying to help people doesn't make it so. One has to just look at your reading material to know what a bold-faced lie that is.
Again, thanks Anticult and everyone who posts here regularly. I have sought out hypnotherapy in the past to help deal with anxiety disorder and I'm much more wary now.
Re: Dave Lakhani, Persuasion, Amazon review, bullying
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: January 29, 2010 11:58PM
Mr. Lakhani's bullying and intimidation have been demonstrated a number of times in this thread.
Here's another example. Lakhani didn't appreciate a poor review on Amazon of his book "Persuasion" and hopped all over it.
But how does Lakhani respond to the 2-star review?
Lakhani: "get a life"
Lakhani: "I don't think you are a legitimate reviewer"
Yeah, you should INSULT someone who actually took the time to review your bloody book. That sure is a great way to persuade people.
It's pretty comical to me that Lakhani ends his comment to that poor reviewer with:
"And is that not marketing and manipulation itself?"
Pot, meet kettle.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2010 12:00AM by helpme2times.
Here's another example. Lakhani didn't appreciate a poor review on Amazon of his book "Persuasion" and hopped all over it.
Gee, Lakhani, SEVEN OUT OF NINE PEOPLE found that review HELPFUL.Quote
2 STARS
7 of 9 people found the following review helpful:
It's Overdone, May 29, 2009
By Reviewer
Dave's books are thin on content and usually artificially inflated.
I like Dave for many things especially his vigor in exploring dimensions of marketing and persuasion. But these 2 books have very litte insightful content.
It looks like they have been written in a flurry,with a belief,that 'anyone' can write a book,even if they have very little of 'original insight' to share.
I am sure Dave has great insights to share.But they don't come out in either of his 2 books (Persuasion, Power of hour).I guess book writing requires much more time and effort.Its a long term project.And these books seem to have been written in a very short time.
Also it's hard to believe Reviews of Dave,because he always gives 5 star reviews to his fellow marketeers, who in turn return the favor.(Like Ken Hogan)This is something Dave Liebermann also does. Especially his recent books, are a lot of hype with very little real content.
As a recent trend,many marketeers in America have started doing 'artificial hype' of their books on Amazon. This gives a biased possitive view of the book.It may or may not be justified.But what is missing is that the real readers voice (neutral and unincentivized) is getting buried.
I wish this trend can stop and the marketeers can trust the discretion of the readers and pay more attention in working on the quality of the book.
I am sure some of the same marketeers have great insights to share. Its just not coming out in their books because of rapid fire techniques of writing books they are employing. It may make money for them but in the long run,their books will be found to be very light on content.
I am sure good authors would like to take a different approach.
But how does Lakhani respond to the 2-star review?
Lakhani: "Another review from someone outside the United States who doesn't bother to identify themselves, probably didn't read the book."Quote
Dave Lakhani says:
Another review from someone outside the United States who doesn't bother to identify themselves, probably didn't read the book, who only reviews negatively. But, in response to your review, here goes. First, read the book. If you don't find an original idea then you obviously didn't read the book. There are a number of five star reviews because people like the book. Some people don't, that's ok, it isn't for everyone. In terms of my personal reviews of books. I actually read 30 - 50 books a month and I typically only review books I like a lot, the book has to be really bad for me to take the time to write a negative review. And, in response to your implication that books shouldn't be marketed, get a life, books are products like everything else that is sold in America (or Germany) and when there is significant competition for mind space, marketing is part of the deal. Virtually no person who has reviewed any of my books have received incentives for their review, people read the book, come to their own conclusions and then review.
So to the reviewer, who took the time to email me his review as well as his very negative review of Ketih Ferrazi's book, I don't think you are a legitimate reviewer and I see by your profile that your friends and connections are only people who write negative reviews, which is typically a strategy to get a lot of votes for your reviews so that your reviewer rank goes up. And is that not marketing and manipulation itself?
Lakhani: "get a life"
Lakhani: "I don't think you are a legitimate reviewer"
Yeah, you should INSULT someone who actually took the time to review your bloody book. That sure is a great way to persuade people.
It's pretty comical to me that Lakhani ends his comment to that poor reviewer with:
"And is that not marketing and manipulation itself?"
Pot, meet kettle.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2010 12:00AM by helpme2times.
Re: Dave Lakhani, Persuasion, Amazon review, bullying
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: January 30, 2010 12:13AM
The Amazon reviewer raised some valid points about Lakhani:
It looks like they have been written in a flurry, with a belief, that 'anyone' can write a book, even if they have very little of 'original insight' to share.
Funny, Lakhani talks about how to write a book "in 30 days or less" in "Persuasion". His claim is that if you can appear to be an expert, such as by publishing a book, then you can better persuade people. (Maybe some people will fall for that.)
Also it's hard to believe Reviews of Dave, because he always gives 5 star reviews to his fellow marketeers, who in turn return the favor. (Like Ken [sic] Hogan) This is something Dave Liebermann also does. Especially his recent books, are a lot of hype with very little real content.
As a recent trend, many marketeers in America have started doing 'artificial hype' of their books on Amazon. This gives a biased possitive view of the book. It may or may not be justified. But what is missing is that the real readers voice (neutral and unincentivized) is getting buried.
This point has already been covered numerous times here. Ahem.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2010 12:14AM by helpme2times.
It looks like they have been written in a flurry, with a belief, that 'anyone' can write a book, even if they have very little of 'original insight' to share.
Funny, Lakhani talks about how to write a book "in 30 days or less" in "Persuasion". His claim is that if you can appear to be an expert, such as by publishing a book, then you can better persuade people. (Maybe some people will fall for that.)
Also it's hard to believe Reviews of Dave, because he always gives 5 star reviews to his fellow marketeers, who in turn return the favor. (Like Ken [sic] Hogan) This is something Dave Liebermann also does. Especially his recent books, are a lot of hype with very little real content.
As a recent trend, many marketeers in America have started doing 'artificial hype' of their books on Amazon. This gives a biased possitive view of the book. It may or may not be justified. But what is missing is that the real readers voice (neutral and unincentivized) is getting buried.
This point has already been covered numerous times here. Ahem.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2010 12:14AM by helpme2times.
Re: Dave Lakhani, cult mind control tactics, covert manipulation
Posted by:
buffman
()
Date: January 30, 2010 05:02AM
The problem is that they don't have any evidence, just a web of lies.Quote
Penelope
Just like Bill Harris in response to McDufee's criticism, he resorts to threats and intimidation and personal insults. If these people were legit they would present real evidence to refute what they say is false information about who they are and what they (or their products) do.
Hypnotherapy can be very effective for anxiety disorders. So can Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction, and many other approaches.Quote
Penelope
I have sought out hypnotherapy in the past to help deal with anxiety disorder and I'm much more wary now.
Some degree of wariness is good--but keep in mind that ALL therapeutic approaches, spiritual practices, and religious traditions can be distorted and perverted to unhelpful ends...not just hypnotherapy. Hypnosis is probably more appealing to shady manipulators due to techniques of indirect communication, but one can be very manipulative with direct commands too, with meditation, or even "logical" arguments.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2010 05:04AM by buffman.
Re: Dave Lakhani, Persuasion, Amazon review, bullying
Posted by:
buffman
()
Date: January 30, 2010 05:09AM
I've been reading that article on L. Ron Hubbard and Malignant Narcissism and have to say that Lakhani's responding with such attacks on all criticism looks a whole lot like narcissistic rage--something a lot of these professional persuaders seem to share.
Re: Dave Lakhani, Persuasion, Amazon review, bullying
Posted by:
Penelope
()
Date: January 30, 2010 07:11AM
Quote
buffman
I've been reading that article on L. Ron Hubbard and Malignant Narcissism and have to say that Lakhani's responding with such attacks on all criticism looks a whole lot like narcissistic rage--something a lot of these professional persuaders seem to share.
You'd think a good 'persuasion' expert like Lakhani would keep his fits of rage in check if for nothing that it is just extremely BAD PR. A person would have to be incredibly narcissistic to not recognize how bad it looks and how it takes away from their professional image.
Thank goodness technology has advanced far enough where people can easily share their experiences with these abusive gurus/teachers/experts. Joseph Smith died in the process of destroying a printing press that wanted to expose unflattering information about him. And I think someone mentioned this earlier, but if this kind of communication existed when L. Ron Hubbard started his scam, it would never have gotten to the point of being a mulit-million $ 'church' globally.
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