From knowing a lot about hypnotherapy and hypnosis, one should be extremely skeptical about anyone who is selling this.
It really has to be approached as one approaches a medical doctor, a real MD that a person sees for real medical issues. If a person goes to see an MD or a surgeon, one has to be certain they know what they are talking about, if you are going under the knife, for example.
Hypnotherapy is no different, whether done by a licensed hypnotherapist, or done by an unlicensed person in a covert way.

Anyone advertising on the internet or on lampposts or even in the yellow pages, as doing hypnotherapy over the phone, promising magical results should absolutely be avoided. There are too many levels they can work on without the subjects knowledge.
Those who are doing it in person, and doing covert hypnosis, should be avoided at all costs. If they try to start doing it at a seminar, for example, a good response is a Pattern Interrupt where their processes are interrupted with an outloud verbal description of what they are doing. But beware, their response will be like that seen in this thread initially, angry and agressive, then denial.

Frankly, the field is so perverted and expoitative at this point, for someone with experience would just avoid the entire thing.
Perhaps a really good licensed psychologist or MD who a person trusts, who has had good hypnosis training, could try it. At least then you know that person is not going to slice and dice your belief system to buy their products, without your awareness.

An experienced person in hypnosis NEVER allows other hypnotists to put them in a trance, that is a fact. For example, Richard Bandler would never allow anyone else to do it to him. None of the big hypnosis Gurus would ever allow anyone else to do it to them, they know what can be done.

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buffman

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Penelope
I have sought out hypnotherapy in the past to help deal with anxiety disorder and I'm much more wary now.

Hypnotherapy can be very effective for anxiety disorders. So can Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction, and many other approaches.

Some degree of wariness is good--but keep in mind that ALL therapeutic approaches, spiritual practices, and religious traditions can be distorted and perverted to unhelpful ends...not just hypnotherapy. Hypnosis is probably more appealing to shady manipulators due to techniques of indirect communication, but one can be very manipulative with direct commands too, with meditation, or even "logical" arguments.

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Penelope
You'd think a good 'persuasion' expert like Lakhani would keep his fits of rage in check if for nothing that it is just extremely BAD PR. A person would have to be incredibly narcissistic to not recognize how bad it looks and how it takes away from their professional image.

Funny you should say this, Penelope. Mr. Lakhani has just offered his wisdom on dealing with reviews/complaints:

"Love or hate the reviews that customers put up, you must know how to handle the reviews when they come and you must be proactive in getting your customers to give you good reviews (particularly since Google is talking about buying YELP, which will have even greater impact on local search for your business)."

See Lakhani's latest blog: [[url=http://boldapproach.typepad.com/bold/2010/01/what-does-yelp-say-about-you.html]boldapproach.typepad.com[/url]]

Right, one "must know how to handle the reviews".
If we are to follow Lakhani's example on Amazon, then it means we can insult and/or bully our critics. That's the way to do it!

An "Erica" commented on Lakhani's blog re YELP.
She singled out one of his statements and then offered a WARNING about it.

Lakhani: "If you have friends who own businesses, do them a favor and give them a review and ask them to do the same for you."

Erica: "Careful--I know a local business owner who did this and she got banned from Yelp. The other biz owners were her clients, too. Yelp doesn't have good support (perfect for a Google acquisition...they pretty much ignore complaints) and will ban you without recourse."

Is it weird of me to perceive that an "expert" seems to be rather less informed than a commenter on his blog?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2010 12:30AM by helpme2times.

It would never cross Dave Lakhani's mind, that cross-shilling reviews on Yelp or Amazon is not only unethical, and against their policies, that it actually backfires.
But that is all these guys do.
They "trade" fake positive reviews for eachother, as they do an Amazon.

Same with Twitter.
If you look at their Twitter accounts, many of them have more than 10,000 followers. But they are also following more than 10,000 twitter accounts! So they are trading Twitter followers as well, as in you follow me and then I'll follow you. So no one reads anything, so its an orgy of cross-shilling in an echo-chamber.

Worse, when the public sees your unethical and dishonest SHILLING and CROSS-SHILLING on Yelp, Amazon, Twitter, Blogs, and everywhere else, they don't trust anything you say, or anything your fake friends/shills/stooges say about you.

Someone should cross-post on Yelp, on Dave Lakhani's page, that he unethically recommends trading cross-shilling on Yelp with other companies on Yelp.

They should just have a Yelp section that says...here is what my paid shills and stooges are saying...

Of course, all of this cross-shilling bartering is the main advertising model for all of the internet scammers and self-promoters, fake shill-blogs are not enough.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2010 01:23AM by The Anticult.

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The Anticult
Someone should cross-post on Yelp, on Dave Lakhani's page, that he unethically recommends trading cross-shilling on Yelp with other companies on Yelp.

They should just have a Yelp section that says...here is what my paid shills and stooges are saying...

Yelp clearly disallows shilling and other manipulations:

Restrictions on Use

You agree that you will not, and will not assist or enable others to:

a. use the Site to threaten, stalk, defraud, incite, harass, or advocate the harassment of another person, or otherwise interfere with another user's use of the Site;

b. use the Site to submit or transmit spam, chain letters, contests, junk email, pyramid schemes, surveys, or other mass messaging, whether commercial in nature or not;

c. use the Site for promotional or commercial purposes, except as expressly allowed in writing by Yelp;

d. use the Site in a manner that may create a conflict of interest, such as trading reviews with other business owners or writing or soliciting shill reviews;

e. use the Site for keyword spamming or to otherwise attempt to manipulate natural search results;

etc.

[[url=http://www.yelp.com/static?p=tos]YELP Terms of Service[/url]]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2010 01:25AM by helpme2times.

I agree when it comes to the big dogs, LGAT-trained seminar leaders, etc. But I also know many very decent and kind people who do hypnotherapy. Your warnings are good but don't apply to the folks I'm thinking of--folks who willingly undergo hypnosis and therapy from others regularly, who don't promise magic, who don't exhibit fits of narcissistic rage, who charge a reasonably low rate (and often a sliding-scale rate based on what the client can pay), and who are generally mild-mannered professional therapists interested in clients' well-being. Most of the folks I know are also trained in many other modalities including Gestalt therapy, EMDR, CBT, Hakomi and other somatic psychotherapies, and other therapeutic approaches. None of the people I'm thinking of have written any books on sales, seduction, or covert persuasion--and I'd recommend avoiding these people like the plague.

I also know many people who have been to conventional, licensed and trained therapists and found the process unhelpful, overly expensive, or have had their therapist say or do inappropriate things.

Again, that's just my experience though. The healing arts do very much depend on the skill and care of the practitioner.

Quote
The Anticult
From knowing a lot about hypnotherapy and hypnosis, one should be extremely skeptical about anyone who is selling this.
It really has to be approached as one approaches a medical doctor, a real MD that a person sees for real medical issues. If a person goes to see an MD or a surgeon, one has to be certain they know what they are talking about, if you are going under the knife, for example.
Hypnotherapy is no different, whether done by a licensed hypnotherapist, or done by an unlicensed person in a covert way.

Anyone advertising on the internet or on lampposts or even in the yellow pages, as doing hypnotherapy over the phone, promising magical results should absolutely be avoided. There are too many levels they can work on without the subjects knowledge.
Those who are doing it in person, and doing covert hypnosis, should be avoided at all costs. If they try to start doing it at a seminar, for example, a good response is a Pattern Interrupt where their processes are interrupted with an outloud verbal description of what they are doing. But beware, their response will be like that seen in this thread initially, angry and agressive, then denial.

Frankly, the field is so perverted and expoitative at this point, for someone with experience would just avoid the entire thing.
Perhaps a really good licensed psychologist or MD who a person trusts, who has had good hypnosis training, could try it. At least then you know that person is not going to slice and dice your belief system to buy their products, without your awareness.

An experienced person in hypnosis NEVER allows other hypnotists to put them in a trance, that is a fact. For example, Richard Bandler would never allow anyone else to do it to him. None of the big hypnosis Gurus would ever allow anyone else to do it to them, they know what can be done.

Quote
buffman
I agree when it comes to the big dogs, LGAT-trained seminar leaders, etc. But I also know many very decent and kind people who do hypnotherapy.

<snip>

Again, that's just my experience though. The healing arts do very much depend on the skill and care of the practitioner.

I was thinking of this the other day when we discovered this Ben Mack dude isn't a real "Dr."

Yes, there are some wonderful practitioners out there, with varying levels of training.

Unfortunately, even someone as highly trained as a doctor can engage in malpractice.

I mean, there are even doctors who've been serial killers: [[url=http://www.galenpress.com/demon_doctors.html]Demon Doctors[/url]]

I realize that such monsters are (thankfully) out of the ordinary, but they do exist.

Let the buyer beware.

Yea, the way I think about it is that there are people who deliberately and brazenly lie about their credentials and the tactics they use to manipulate people. Avoid those people completely!

Then there are legit doctors and therapists for whom it is best to exercise a reasonable degree of caution, but probably not avoid entirely.

Of course it is entirely up to the client which professional they want to work with, what modalities and approaches they choose or reject, or whether to do a more self-help approach. Finding a good therapist, doctor, mechanic, or spiritual teacher can be a difficult task...and nobody is perfect.

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helpme2times
I was thinking of this the other day when we discovered this Ben Mack dude isn't a real "Dr."

Yes, there are some wonderful practitioners out there, with varying levels of training.

Unfortunately, even someone as highly trained as a doctor can engage in malpractice.

I mean, there are even doctors who've been serial killers: [[url=http://www.galenpress.com/demon_doctors.html]Demon Doctors[/url]]

I realize that such monsters are (thankfully) out of the ordinary, but they do exist.

Let the buyer beware.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2010 04:45AM by buffman.

'The healing arts do very much depend on the skill and care of the practitioner.'

The patient/client has a part to play also, in using critical thinking to evaluate the skill and care on offer from the practitioner.
Corboy has provided extensive information in other threads (notably James Ray and Byron Katie threads) on the correct nature of the fiduciary and boundaried aspects required of the practitioner in the therapeutic relationship. The nature of these relationships requires a high level of trust from the patient/client in order to be of use to the patient/client.
If the focus is not fully on the welfare of the client--who is paying for just that---the relationship is corrupt from the beginning.

I look for the same in books that I buy, if the book is a thinly disguised advertising piece for the other paid services on offer from the author and his buddies, why am I paying him for the opportunity to sell this crap to me?

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buffman
Finding a good therapist, doctor, mechanic, or spiritual teacher can be a difficult task...and nobody is perfect.

That's why it is wonderful that venues like the Cult Education Forum exist; they help the public make informed choices.