There is a looong, bizarre online exchange featuring Ben Mack, aka "Love" -- in a forum about a book called "Principia Discordia". It appears that Mr. Mack went to the forum in hopes of marketing his book, "Poker Without Cards".

[[url=http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=21524.0]www.principiadiscordia.com[/url]]

He mentions Dave Lakhani at least once in that forum.

In one of his initial posts, Mack says something I find very concerning:

I imagine I hit my rock-bottom about April of 2009, just a precious few months ago. Within a three-week period, the cops were called on me three times, the woman I loved stopped speaking to me and as I closed from a stage in Texas, I made a friend cry. The pride in me compels me to note I still closed seven-units the day I made a girl cry. Little good can come from this pride. Defending my ego with lists of awards, clients and revenue is what was stunting my growth. I was bound by desire to make my system work because I was seeing people as needing my help. Seeing people as needy was stunting my growth; I was foisting my concepts on folks instead of seeing and honoring where prospects wanted to grow. I was breeching the first rule of marketing… sell them what they want to buy.

“Sell them what they want and give them what they need.”
~T. Harv Eker, New York Times bestselling author of
Secrets of The Millionaire Mind

The cops were called on him three times? What the heck for?

And what's with the reference to T. Harv Eker?

If one visits the forum link above, it makes for some fascinating, and disturbing, reading about Ben Mack.

A few things said to Mack by some forum members:

Post by: Kai on July 25, 2009, 04:24:43 PM

Not angry. Disappointed. There's a large difference there.

I'll call you Dr. when you act like a PhD and don't run off at the slightest bit of criticism. Is this how you acted at your dissertation defense? If so, how is it that they allowed you to walk for your degree?

You're a published author with some critical ideas of society. You have to be ready to accept the same criticism yourself. You say this is more like an autobiography and a philosophical work than a novel in many ways. Philosophy, especially prescriptive philosophy, gets ripped apart.

Post by: Iptuous on July 28, 2009, 05:00:26 AM

Ben,

it's difficult for me to believe that you are in marketing based on your communicative abilities demonstrated in this thread.  before you showed up, i thought your book, while needing a little bit more editing, was pretty good.  i would have recommended it to friends.  to buy. 

rest assured that you have 'effected change' in me....

Post by: Kai on July 28, 2009, 07:36:44 AM

<snip>

I like the Buddha's statement "Beware of Teachers". You're obviously selling something, trying to get us to buy into your little teacher act so that we BUY it from you. But I hope that your possible students thoroughly google your name and Poker Without Cards before deciding. If they end up seeing this thread they'll see what an unbelievable egotist and self righteous hypocrite you are.

You'll find that people around here don't want to be sold anything, and they don't trust people who treat them as beneath your faculties.

You sound like a snake oil salesman.

Post by: Corvidia on August 28, 2009, 10:38:43 PM

I don't think I've ever seen someone so hopelessly out of step with a forum as you. Why are you even here, still? Are you somehow hoping that we'll suddenly see the light and fanboi you?

A question: You're bipolar, right? Your posts have sort of off-kilter intensity that manias seem to have sometimes. Maybe you should stop posting when you're manic.

Post by: Triple Zero on August 29, 2009, 03:23:15 PM

As long as he's posting in public forums he gets his gibberish published on a PR5 website which influences the Google Index.

he's a leech.

An interesting comment from Ben Mack above, that was mentioned in this thread many times, that sums up these guys...

"sell them what they want to buy."

Actually, its...make them BELIEVE you are selling them what they THINK they want to buy.

These guys are just manipulative salesmen, they just want to make money selling anything people think they want to buy.
Just glancing at some of the Ben Mack material is very strange.
Who knows if he is a "Dr." in terms of a PhD, or just another fake internet scam.

Whatever he says would have to be verified at source by an independent person, every single time. None of these guys have any credibility whatsoever in their claims and pitches.

But regardless, there seems to be a but more than meets the eye, to Ben Mack, but not much.

Ben Mack probably got fired/downsized from the advertising world...and he now seems to have set himself up as a "coach" to "maximize profitability by thinking two products ahead".
Yet another internet coaching scam. These guys all try to get a piece of the coaching racket, as its easy money if they can find insecure people to bamboozle with their bullshit.

All of the claims they make, all of them, every single one, has to be treated as FALSE until proven with objective evidence by a 3rd party.
Anything they say has to be cross-checked and verified, that is the only way to deal with these types of extremely manipulative salespeople, their professional lying which they call marketing, and making these ridiculous claims to promote themselves and their businesses.

QUOTE: "Ben (Mack) is often criticized for not being understandable, for being too smart and using language that people don't understand."

That is Ben Mack using the old-school sales technique...BAFFLE THEM WITH BULLSHIT.

All of these claims by Ben Mack need to be treated as white noise, as bullshit. Every claim he makes, he has to prove factually. There are clear signs of constant confabulation.

Crescent City Gal is very smart...she has the mantra for all these guys and their marketing cronies and internet promoters...


Will I ever buy anything endorsed by this person? NO!

Will I ever buy anything on which this person has placed a testimonial? HELL NO!

Will I ever buy anything from anybody who is associated with this person? NO!

For how long? Permanently.

Will I tell my friends and fellow professionals? Hell yes!

Ben Mack and Mark Joyner teamed up for another flagrant scam.
They are just pandering to greed, to those who want to get rich quick by Magic Marketing.
There are more links out there with the same title.
This entire gang of closely interlinked internet scammers is very distasteful.


_____________quote excerpt for educational analysis and research___________
A Rare Conversation With Mark Joyner and Ben Mack
[209.85.129.132]

It's the strangest story of hidden formulas, ancient knowledge and buried money ever told...

"How an Internet Pioneer & A Street Magician Uncovered The Secret Formula Behind Nearly Every Great Fortune Ever Made Since 1463...!"

...Imagine yourself with all the money you can handle, a successful business person cruising along on autopilot with an inexhaustible supply of rabid and loyal customers who can't whip their credit cards out fast enough when you introduce a new product.

...Recently, maverick marketer Ben Mack was able to spend some time interviewing online success Mark Joyner during two teleseminars...


“Ben Mack will teach you how to turn every first sale into residual streams of income with products and services that literally compel a second, third, and fourth purchase."
--T. Harv Eker, #1 NY Times Bestseller,
Secrets of the Millionaire Mind
_______________________________________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2010 04:45PM by The Anticult.

A high ranked cross-shilling "review" for Simpleology Mark Joyner is by...

Dave Lakhani BoldApproach.com [www.amazon.com]

Lakhani has filled that review with loaded language, and even embedded suggestions.

The cross-shilling by these internet scammers and marketers is almost unbelievable. Dave Lakhani shilling for Mark Joyner who all cross-shill for Ben Mack and Kevin Hogan, and the rest of them.
They cross-shill for eachother, and pervert Amazon.com with fake 5 Star reviews for their business partners, and recommending eachothers reviews to drive them up.

Someone in the comments section for the Dave Lakhani review RIGHTLY criticized Lakhani for his constant 5 Star SHILL reviews at Amazon.com for his business partners, you can see by the response.
Dave Lakhani obviously complained and had that comment DELETED by Amazon.
- TD says:
[Deleted by Amazon on April 6, 2007 6:08 PM PDT]

Who is so spineless, he is unable to cope with any legitimate criticism?
Dave Lakhani.

Quote
The Anticult
Who is so spineless, he is unable to cope with any legitimate criticism?
Dave Lakhani.

Dave went right to Twitter on 7/9/09 when he didn't like an Amazon review of his book:

The most angry review of How To Sell When Nobody's Buying yet [bit.ly] hopefully people vote it not helpful!
8:56 AM Jul 9th, 2009 from TweetDeck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2010 08:51PM by helpme2times.

Dave Lakhani is a very active Twitter user.

Apparently when things went sour for at least one participant in Ben Mack's "ESP Boot Camp" last year, some of the unpleasantness got aired via Dave's Twitter.

The person making the complaint via her blog is called Cresent City Gal, abbreviated CCGAL. Watch Dave send Tweets to CCGAL and Project_Man....

@CCGAL I'm shocked you didn't return my call, I was not a promoter of the event, only a speaker and you've cast a lot of dispersions my way.
9:36 AM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL

@CCGAL I've explained my position here [is.gd] I hope you'll have the good courtesy of considering what I've said and to call me.
9:40 AM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL

@CCGAL You are about to step over a line with me. have the courage to explain how you see me as being complicit in your interaction with Ben
1:31 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL

@ccgal you have to unblock me in order for me to see your tweets that include me without reviewing your timeline.
1:32 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

@ccgal to my knowledge the door was never locked, I was asked at the last minute to go on stage and start the event, I was NOT the MC
1:33 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

@CCGAL You are mistaken. I did know you were there, I didn't lock the door, I was not to do ANYTHING until after lunch when I was to speak
1:35 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL

@CCGAL I apologized to you because I felt bad for you and because I like you not because I had anything to do with what happened.
1:37 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

@CCGAL I'dkindly ask you to have a conversation with me here on on the phone to get the facts straight before you take another shot at me.
1:38 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

@CCGAL To be clear, I didn't lock you out, I wasn't rude to you (quite the opposite) and I was in no way unprofessional with you.
1:45 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

@Project_Man You are absolutely incorrect and willingly misrepresenting facts. Have the courage to call me and well set this straight.
4:29 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

@Project_Man For the record you've just crossed the line and I'll take aggressive action to stop your slandering if you choose not to call.
4:30 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

@Project_Man I've never seen someone intentionally try as hard as you and @ccgal to alienate someone who actually likes & cares about you.
4:31 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

@CCGAL You got it, Ben called and asked me to start it and I did and for your info, I started at 10am, not earlier as you keep saying.
4:34 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL

@CCGAL For the last time, I didn't tell anyone to lock anything. I do lock people out of my events if they are late, THIS WAS NOT MY EVENT.
4:36 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

@Project_Man Pick up the phone and call me collect if you need to 208-xxx-xxxx, settle this now or I'll take aggressive action, period.
4:37 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Note: I've taken "screen snapshots" of the above Twitters, as well as other info pertaining to this thread, just in case anything is made to "disappear". (I learned to do this after the Byron Katie camp was deleting/changing online info shortly after we were posting about it in this forum.)

As I noted in my previous post, Dave Lakhani is a very active Twitter user.

About a month after some unpleasantness seemed to have occurred during Ben Mack's "ESP Boot Camp" (on 1/31-2/1/09), Lakhani once again went to Twitter, revealing a rather troubling scenario....

@BenMack If he would have called the police on you they'd had had you held for psychological evaluation. I'm no longer a cop, I don't decide
9:11 AM Mar 3rd, 2009 from web in reply to HowardWCampbell

@BenMack I wasn't angry, your behavior doesn't make my angry it makes me sad.
9:25 AM Mar 3rd, 2009 from web in reply to HowardWCampbell

For all who have called me, what is going on with Ben is real, I'm doing my best to get him psych help before he hurts himself or others.
10:27 AM Mar 3rd, 2009 from web

Thanks again to everyone who has contacted me about Ben police have been notified, they will pick him up and do a mental welfare observation
11:18 AM Mar 3rd, 2009 from web

I'd like to add one thing.

If indeed someone is having mental health issues, that is a heart-wrenching thing and I do have compassion for that.

(To quote "Arsenic and Old Lace": "Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops.")

I just hope that professional help is being sought. Mental illness can be a devastating thing, and not just for the person with the illness. For their loved ones as well.

There is Dave Lakhani yet again attempting to use his tactics of intimidation, BULLYING, and threatening language and to try and silence analysis, criticism, and free speech on the internet.
Where did he learn that one? From Werner Erhard and The Landmark Forum?

That could be a new book...How to use intimidation, bullying tactics and threats to silence criticism and free speech on the internet.
You threaten them with "crossing the line", and use the word "aggressive", and just try to intimidate them using bully tactics, and to force them to "call you on the phone".

Another spineless and intellectually cowardly response by Dave Lakhani.
Instead of discussing the facts, all Dave Lakhani can seem to do is to try to use attempts at intimidation, bullying and threatening language.

On top of that, he again tries force people to get "on the phone" with him, using a double-bind and forced-choice tactic. The reason for that has been explained in this thread, to use persuasion techniques verbally, and to try to divide and conquer. As well, since its "verbal" who knows what is being said on the phone?
Who knows what manipulative tactics are going to be used on the person calling in?


Dave Lakhani has had plenty of time to provide proof he is a licensed NLP Master Practitioner, and who trained him, where and when. He has refused to provide that information.
What that means is that NLP claim being made is BULLSHIT.

How could someone claim to be an NLP Master Practitioner, and not have it be true? Easy, they just make it up.
NLP is not like being a real licensed professional, or even like being a licensed hot dog vendor. So there are plenty of people who read a few NLP books, or take one seminar, and then they start saying they are an NLP Master Practitioner, or NLP Trainer, or things like that. Yes, they lie, they make it up out of thin air.

Since they choose to make their exaggerated and fabricated advertising claims, its up to them to prove them, and when they don't, then its just more bullshit to add to very large pile of bullshit they are already standing in up to their necks.
More bullshit...period.

Quote

Dave Lakhani is a very active Twitter user.

Apparently when things went sour for at least one participant in Ben Mack's "ESP Boot Camp" last year, some of the unpleasantness got aired via Dave's Twitter.

The person making the complaint via her blog is called Cresent City Gal, abbreviated CCGAL. Watch Dave send Tweets to CCGAL and Project_Man....


@CCGAL You are about to step over a line with me. have the courage to explain how you see me as being complicit in your interaction with Ben
1:31 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web in reply to CCGAL


@CCGAL I'dkindly ask you to have a conversation with me here on on the phone to get the facts straight before you take another shot at me.
1:38 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

~ ~ ~ ~ ~


@Project_Man For the record you've just crossed the line and I'll take aggressive action to stop your slandering if you choose not to call.
4:30 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

@Project_Man Pick up the phone and call me collect if you need to 208-xxx-xxxx, settle this now or I'll take aggressive action, period.
4:37 PM Feb 2nd, 2009 from web[/i]