Dave Lakhani, NLP covert conversational hypnosis, propaganda lies
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 22, 2010 07:16AM
In the Foreword to the Dave Lakhani book Subliminal Persuasion, Kevin Hogan tries to reframe the concept "propaganda" into something that is good for a "free society" and is used by everyone.
In fact, propaganda, is deliberately and consciously using false, dishonest and misleading information to persuade and influence the beliefs, emotions and behavior of a targeted group of people.
So right from square one, these guys are deliberately using actual propaganda, to try and modify the meaning of the concept propaganda. Of course, that is 100% deliberate.
They are trying to influence people to believe that it doesn't matter if something is accurate, what matters is if its useful to them. They often say, it doesn't matter if its "true" it matters if its useful.
Of course that means useful to THEM.
They are trying to screw with your beliefs from before page 1.
So when a guy is calling himself an Applied Propagandist, what he is really saying is that he wants to be skilled at deliberately using false, dishonest and misleading information to persuade and influence the beliefs, emotions and behavior of targeted groups of people.
In reality, all of these fancy techniques really boil down to being very sophisticated at lying.
A trained professional liar.
But of course, some people's lies are not that sophisticated, and pretty easy to spot with a little research and analysis.
In reality, propaganda is...
...Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.
They know what they are telling and selling is a lie, and its a careful conscious lie meant to influence and mislead others into behaviors they want them to take, like buy their products.
So its not a mistake, these kinds of lies, they are not ignorance. They are propaganda, which is deliberate sytematic deception of a group of people.
Are they ashamed of these lies and propaganda? No of course not, they are proud of them. To them, propaganda that works is better than a fine wine, they brag about it to eachother.
But of course, part of propaganda is to lie about the lies, to those who are being lied to.
But a lie is a lie, even a child knows that, with the phrase, liar liar pants on fire.
Because when the lies get exposed, the liar is put on the hot-seat, and his pants are on fire, and he runs and hides.
In fact, propaganda, is deliberately and consciously using false, dishonest and misleading information to persuade and influence the beliefs, emotions and behavior of a targeted group of people.
So right from square one, these guys are deliberately using actual propaganda, to try and modify the meaning of the concept propaganda. Of course, that is 100% deliberate.
They are trying to influence people to believe that it doesn't matter if something is accurate, what matters is if its useful to them. They often say, it doesn't matter if its "true" it matters if its useful.
Of course that means useful to THEM.
They are trying to screw with your beliefs from before page 1.
So when a guy is calling himself an Applied Propagandist, what he is really saying is that he wants to be skilled at deliberately using false, dishonest and misleading information to persuade and influence the beliefs, emotions and behavior of targeted groups of people.
In reality, all of these fancy techniques really boil down to being very sophisticated at lying.
A trained professional liar.
But of course, some people's lies are not that sophisticated, and pretty easy to spot with a little research and analysis.
In reality, propaganda is...
...Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.
They know what they are telling and selling is a lie, and its a careful conscious lie meant to influence and mislead others into behaviors they want them to take, like buy their products.
So its not a mistake, these kinds of lies, they are not ignorance. They are propaganda, which is deliberate sytematic deception of a group of people.
Are they ashamed of these lies and propaganda? No of course not, they are proud of them. To them, propaganda that works is better than a fine wine, they brag about it to eachother.
But of course, part of propaganda is to lie about the lies, to those who are being lied to.
But a lie is a lie, even a child knows that, with the phrase, liar liar pants on fire.
Because when the lies get exposed, the liar is put on the hot-seat, and his pants are on fire, and he runs and hides.
Re: Dave Lakhani, cultawarenessnetwork.org Scientology
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 22, 2010 07:52AM
The intial post by Lakhani in the blog comments near the bottom, did not link to the RickRoss forum.
A poster named "Ramona" challenged him on it, with satire about his being "not aware". Another oversight? Which can wreck a vulnerable person's life by referring them to a dangerous Scientology front-group?
But this is a real object lesson in the serious danger that kind of arrogance mixed with ignorance can create.
Either Lakhani knew absolutely nothing about cult education or the CAN www.cultawarenessnetwork.org and just picked that reference from a random Google search, or he read their website, and agreed with their methods, beliefs, and deceptive apologetics. www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/WhoWeAre.html
Hmm, which one is it, one wonders?
Read this one www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/dbase/clippings/anti-cult.html
That is a rabid Scientologist saying that the way to deal with criticism of a sect or group, is a media campaign based around a personal smear attack. Yes that's right, misdirect from the issues and facts, and just try to do a smear and media blockade of the person.
There is a distortion of Dr. Margaret Singer's work linked on the front-page www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/Singer/Evaluation/index2.html
From the very clear evidence so far, even seen in this very thread, the reason Dave Lakhani referred people to CAN, is because he was utterly clueless about even the very basics of cult education and awareness while representing himself as an "expert"...
But also much more importantly...Dave Lakhani must have agreed with what is posted on the cultawarenessnetwork.org website. Many of the ideas he is promoting are very similar in many ways to those of cult apologists, who also believe deceptive persuasion and propaganda is wonderful, as long as you have a "good intent", which many cult recruiters believe they have as they are True Believers. Many even say, a cult is good, as long as its a good cult, and of course their cult is a good one. They believe that deception is the best way to get to the "truth" with various rationalizations.
So that is the more important issue, how many covert persuaders, actually share almost identical ideas and beliefs with cult apologists.
For example, look what CAN scam has to say about Steve Hassan. [www.cultawarenessnetwork.org]
also Search Google for:
hassan site:cultawarenessnetwork.org
Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan
The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013
See [www.culteducation.com]
The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.
News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.
RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.
RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.
Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.
Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."
Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.
See [corp.sec.state.ma.us]
Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.
RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.
RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.
To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."
See [www.cultnews.com]
Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:
"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."
RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.
Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).
Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 09:34PM by rrmoderator.
A poster named "Ramona" challenged him on it, with satire about his being "not aware". Another oversight? Which can wreck a vulnerable person's life by referring them to a dangerous Scientology front-group?
But this is a real object lesson in the serious danger that kind of arrogance mixed with ignorance can create.
Either Lakhani knew absolutely nothing about cult education or the CAN www.cultawarenessnetwork.org and just picked that reference from a random Google search, or he read their website, and agreed with their methods, beliefs, and deceptive apologetics. www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/WhoWeAre.html
Hmm, which one is it, one wonders?
Read this one www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/dbase/clippings/anti-cult.html
That is a rabid Scientologist saying that the way to deal with criticism of a sect or group, is a media campaign based around a personal smear attack. Yes that's right, misdirect from the issues and facts, and just try to do a smear and media blockade of the person.
There is a distortion of Dr. Margaret Singer's work linked on the front-page www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/Singer/Evaluation/index2.html
From the very clear evidence so far, even seen in this very thread, the reason Dave Lakhani referred people to CAN, is because he was utterly clueless about even the very basics of cult education and awareness while representing himself as an "expert"...
But also much more importantly...Dave Lakhani must have agreed with what is posted on the cultawarenessnetwork.org website. Many of the ideas he is promoting are very similar in many ways to those of cult apologists, who also believe deceptive persuasion and propaganda is wonderful, as long as you have a "good intent", which many cult recruiters believe they have as they are True Believers. Many even say, a cult is good, as long as its a good cult, and of course their cult is a good one. They believe that deception is the best way to get to the "truth" with various rationalizations.
So that is the more important issue, how many covert persuaders, actually share almost identical ideas and beliefs with cult apologists.
For example, look what CAN scam has to say about Steve Hassan. [www.cultawarenessnetwork.org]
also Search Google for:
hassan site:cultawarenessnetwork.org
Quote
Stoic
Dave did post a RickRoss link along with Steve Hassan though, and I think an apology probably too much to expect. The retraction is there, adjacent to the podcast and flagged. The damage done has been rectified for the future.
Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan
The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013
See [www.culteducation.com]
The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.
News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.
RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.
RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.
Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.
Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."
Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.
See [corp.sec.state.ma.us]
Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.
RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.
RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.
To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."
See [www.cultnews.com]
Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:
"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."
RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.
Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).
Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 09:34PM by rrmoderator.
Re: Dave Lakhani, NLP covert conversational hypnosis, propaganda lies
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: January 22, 2010 07:58AM
I tried the Exploring the Mind contact email again, after a short exchange with the blog owner, and it is now working.
I speculated earlier on the reasons for having an invalid email address on the Contact page, and said that this might be a flog rather than a blog. In truth, I do not know what the purpose of the blog might be, not being omniscient.
I am not against people selling stuff per se and if I find a blog post or article useful I take a pragmatic attitude and am not much interested in the personal details or purposes of the person who wrote it.
I think each person must decide for themselves whether something is benign or malign and get as much education as possible to make an informed decision, which makes this site invaluable.
So, the email now works, I don't know if the blog is a flog, I'm happy to read the articles posted there if they interest me-------and Dave corrected his oversight.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 08:00AM by Stoic.
I speculated earlier on the reasons for having an invalid email address on the Contact page, and said that this might be a flog rather than a blog. In truth, I do not know what the purpose of the blog might be, not being omniscient.
I am not against people selling stuff per se and if I find a blog post or article useful I take a pragmatic attitude and am not much interested in the personal details or purposes of the person who wrote it.
I think each person must decide for themselves whether something is benign or malign and get as much education as possible to make an informed decision, which makes this site invaluable.
So, the email now works, I don't know if the blog is a flog, I'm happy to read the articles posted there if they interest me-------and Dave corrected his oversight.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 08:00AM by Stoic.
Re: Dave Lakhani, cult mind control, persuasion, Amazon reviews
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: January 22, 2010 08:43AM
Yes, Lakhani has claimed he is a cult expert:
"Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I took many courses on cult investigation while I worked in law enforcement, particularly satanic groups and conducted investigations. I've also instructed at the college level and have been an expert witness on cults, all of those things would qualify me as an expert. Not to mention the fact that I've spend 27 years studying cults, particularly religious cults, mass influence and persuasion."
[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,80911,80962#msg-80962]forum.culteducation.com[/url]]
And yet he didn't know, until several days ago, about the great danger of steering people to the formerly helpful Cult Awareness Network (CAN). Something that several of us in this forum have known very well about, and we don't claim to be cult experts. Also any REAL cult expert knows about CAN for sure.
Lakhani might say we're harping on this point about CAN, but it really IS, as Christa pointed out, akin to claiming to be an expert in terrorism, yet not knowing a thing about the events of September 11, 2001. It's that big of a deal.
We keep bringing the CAN thing up because it is so very important and because Lakhani had initially tried to minimize it. "I'm moving on" was his retort to Christa.
(He later did an about-face after we advised that it would be prudent to issue a disclaimer about his CAN blunder on that blog about his interview. Thank goodness he's finally done so.)
Another VERY interesting thing is.... Lakhani, the alleged "cult expert", has reviewed a total of 83 books on Amazon.com as of today, January 21, 2010.... yet.... I DO NOT SEE EVEN ONE BOOK ABOUT HARMFUL CULTS.
That's right, as of now, Lakhani has NOT drawn attention to CULT EDUCATION via his big list of Amazon-reviewed books.
Another "oversight" by Lakhani?
Someone who says they're a cult expert who has studied cults for 27 years.... manages to review 83 books on Amazon and NOT ONE IS ABOUT CULTS?
?
[[url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2NNPISXOKJ1K4?ie=UTF8&display=public&sort_by=MostRecentReview&page=1]Amazon.com Reviews Written by Dave Lakhani[/url]]
On the other hand, Lakhani has felt it important to review and grant 5 out of 5 stars -- that's the highest review, folks -- to such questionable books as Robert Scheinfeld's "Busting Loose From The Money Game" and Joe Vitale's "Hypnotic Writing" and "The Attractor Factor".
Both Scheinfeld and Vitale have been mentioned UNFAVORABLY in this cult education forum and elsewhere.
Robert Scheinfeld criticism: [[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,13030,78336#msg-78336]forum.culteducation.com[/url]]
Joe Vitale criticism: [[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,34276,34276#msg-34276]forum.culteducation.com[/url]] [[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,30230,59158#msg-59158]forum.culteducation.com[/url]]
I fail to see how much of a cult expert Lakhani can be when he doesn't even review one book about harmful cults in his MANY Amazon.com reviews.
Why on earth not?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 08:49AM by helpme2times.
"Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I took many courses on cult investigation while I worked in law enforcement, particularly satanic groups and conducted investigations. I've also instructed at the college level and have been an expert witness on cults, all of those things would qualify me as an expert. Not to mention the fact that I've spend 27 years studying cults, particularly religious cults, mass influence and persuasion."
[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,80911,80962#msg-80962]forum.culteducation.com[/url]]
And yet he didn't know, until several days ago, about the great danger of steering people to the formerly helpful Cult Awareness Network (CAN). Something that several of us in this forum have known very well about, and we don't claim to be cult experts. Also any REAL cult expert knows about CAN for sure.
Lakhani might say we're harping on this point about CAN, but it really IS, as Christa pointed out, akin to claiming to be an expert in terrorism, yet not knowing a thing about the events of September 11, 2001. It's that big of a deal.
We keep bringing the CAN thing up because it is so very important and because Lakhani had initially tried to minimize it. "I'm moving on" was his retort to Christa.
(He later did an about-face after we advised that it would be prudent to issue a disclaimer about his CAN blunder on that blog about his interview. Thank goodness he's finally done so.)
Another VERY interesting thing is.... Lakhani, the alleged "cult expert", has reviewed a total of 83 books on Amazon.com as of today, January 21, 2010.... yet.... I DO NOT SEE EVEN ONE BOOK ABOUT HARMFUL CULTS.
That's right, as of now, Lakhani has NOT drawn attention to CULT EDUCATION via his big list of Amazon-reviewed books.
Another "oversight" by Lakhani?
Someone who says they're a cult expert who has studied cults for 27 years.... manages to review 83 books on Amazon and NOT ONE IS ABOUT CULTS?
?
[[url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2NNPISXOKJ1K4?ie=UTF8&display=public&sort_by=MostRecentReview&page=1]Amazon.com Reviews Written by Dave Lakhani[/url]]
On the other hand, Lakhani has felt it important to review and grant 5 out of 5 stars -- that's the highest review, folks -- to such questionable books as Robert Scheinfeld's "Busting Loose From The Money Game" and Joe Vitale's "Hypnotic Writing" and "The Attractor Factor".
Both Scheinfeld and Vitale have been mentioned UNFAVORABLY in this cult education forum and elsewhere.
Robert Scheinfeld criticism: [[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,13030,78336#msg-78336]forum.culteducation.com[/url]]
Joe Vitale criticism: [[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,34276,34276#msg-34276]forum.culteducation.com[/url]] [[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,30230,59158#msg-59158]forum.culteducation.com[/url]]
I fail to see how much of a cult expert Lakhani can be when he doesn't even review one book about harmful cults in his MANY Amazon.com reviews.
Why on earth not?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 08:49AM by helpme2times.
Re: Dave Lakhani, cult mind control, persuasion, satanic groups
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 22, 2010 09:01AM
On top of everything else, Dave Lakhani is talking about "satanic groups" as cults?
Which ones specifically? Which satanic cult?
This is another warning flag going up.
There were many cases of false memory and hysteria involving alleged "satanic" groups and ritual abuse and the so-called investigations from some local police. There are many case histories of outrageous errors committed by investigators by making suggestions, etc.
Satanism [www.culteducation.com]
(Of course terrible child abuse occurs in society with great frequency)
An expert witness on cults? Does that mean Dave Lakhani has been paid in court to give evidence? When? Where?
Which college did he instruct at?
Why is it always the same pattern, where are just vague claims being made, with no evidence, no facts, no nothing?
Sure, they can get away with this in random internet marketing, but not in the real world, like this thread.
So its up to Dave Lakhani to verify and prove the claims he is making. Where's the proof?
(insert the sound of one hand clapping)
Which ones specifically? Which satanic cult?
This is another warning flag going up.
There were many cases of false memory and hysteria involving alleged "satanic" groups and ritual abuse and the so-called investigations from some local police. There are many case histories of outrageous errors committed by investigators by making suggestions, etc.
Satanism [www.culteducation.com]
(Of course terrible child abuse occurs in society with great frequency)
An expert witness on cults? Does that mean Dave Lakhani has been paid in court to give evidence? When? Where?
Which college did he instruct at?
Why is it always the same pattern, where are just vague claims being made, with no evidence, no facts, no nothing?
Sure, they can get away with this in random internet marketing, but not in the real world, like this thread.
So its up to Dave Lakhani to verify and prove the claims he is making. Where's the proof?
(insert the sound of one hand clapping)
Quote
helpme2times
Yes, Lakhani has claimed he is a cult expert:
"Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I took many courses on cult investigation while I worked in law enforcement, particularly satanic groups and conducted investigations. I've also instructed at the college level and have been an expert witness on cults, all of those things would qualify me as an expert. Not to mention the fact that I've spend 27 years studying cults, particularly religious cults, mass influence and persuasion."
[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,80911,80962#msg-80962]forum.culteducation.com[/url]]
Re: Dave Lakhani, exploringthemind.com, Michael Lovitch
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: January 22, 2010 09:56AM
The guy who runs the Exploring the Mind blog is Michael Lovitch, a "co-founder of the Hypnosis Network".
[[url=http://exploringthemind.com/how-to-protect-yourself-from-coercive-groups-and-leaders/]exploringthemind.com[/url]]
Lovitch has just admitted that he is a buddy of Dave Lakhani.
And it seems he is very concerned with defending his pal:
"I know Dave's intentions were to help people and I really think he did. I welcome any additions to this posts that are well intentioned and meant to help people with the purpose of this post."
How can anyone truly KNOW if another person's intentions are to be helpful? Lovitch says he KNOWS his buddy's intentions.
Intentions are NOT VISIBLE.
It happens all the time that sociopaths can fool people all over the place with a suave, likable veneer, when meanwhile they feel nothing for others and instead are looking to take advantage of people just about any way they can.
Such people can get away with their manipulations and even crimes for years and years, undiscovered.
That's just one example of someone who has a negative intention but appears "good" on the outside.
Like his buddy Lakhani, Mr. Lovitch wants to minimize and even try to make look good Lakhani's huge error re the Cult Awareness Network:
"A side benefit of Dave's mistake about CAN is that more people (who aren't already in the anti-cult community) might become aware of the fact that the Scientologists somehow took over CAN - and then completely bastardized it."
A "side benefit"? That is laughable.
What about anyone who has listened to the Lakhani interview prior to his warning re CAN, but does not revisit the blog and read that warning? What if anyone like that seeks out CAN?
What about that?
Please, let's not sweep this VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE under the rug. People could be harmed in any number of ways if they seek the help of CAN.
This is the entire comment by Michael Lovitch in support of his buddy Lakhani:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 09:57AM by helpme2times.
[[url=http://exploringthemind.com/how-to-protect-yourself-from-coercive-groups-and-leaders/]exploringthemind.com[/url]]
Lovitch has just admitted that he is a buddy of Dave Lakhani.
And it seems he is very concerned with defending his pal:
"I know Dave's intentions were to help people and I really think he did. I welcome any additions to this posts that are well intentioned and meant to help people with the purpose of this post."
How can anyone truly KNOW if another person's intentions are to be helpful? Lovitch says he KNOWS his buddy's intentions.
Intentions are NOT VISIBLE.
It happens all the time that sociopaths can fool people all over the place with a suave, likable veneer, when meanwhile they feel nothing for others and instead are looking to take advantage of people just about any way they can.
Such people can get away with their manipulations and even crimes for years and years, undiscovered.
That's just one example of someone who has a negative intention but appears "good" on the outside.
Like his buddy Lakhani, Mr. Lovitch wants to minimize and even try to make look good Lakhani's huge error re the Cult Awareness Network:
"A side benefit of Dave's mistake about CAN is that more people (who aren't already in the anti-cult community) might become aware of the fact that the Scientologists somehow took over CAN - and then completely bastardized it."
A "side benefit"? That is laughable.
What about anyone who has listened to the Lakhani interview prior to his warning re CAN, but does not revisit the blog and read that warning? What if anyone like that seeks out CAN?
What about that?
Please, let's not sweep this VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE under the rug. People could be harmed in any number of ways if they seek the help of CAN.
This is the entire comment by Michael Lovitch in support of his buddy Lakhani:
Quote
I think this is the main point. I was very disturbed by what happened with James Ray and being close to the industry have been disturbed by what is going on with guru type leaders for a long time now.
Not being an expert myself, I sought out Dave to help people steer clear of these types of groups and people. I think he did a very good job.
The Rick Ross community obviously has more experience in this area and might have found it lacking (I would not be the best judge of this).
However, I know Dave's intentions were to help people and I really think he did. I welcome any additions to this posts that are well intentioned and meant to help people with the purpose of this post.
A side benefit of Dave's mistake about CAN is that more people (who aren't already in the anti-cult community) might become aware of the fact that the Scientologists somehow took over CAN - and then completely bastardized it. Pure Evil.
For full disclosure, I am a personal friend of Dave's. We have beers together!
In person he is about as far from coercive leader as one could be. I realize that from the titles of his books and products it could seem otherwise.
But in real life he is the kind of person who changes his mind a lot because he is human. We argue a lot and he does not get defensive or dogmatic. I also change my mind a lot because life can get pretty confusing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 09:57AM by helpme2times.
Re: Dave Lakhani, exploringthemind.com, Michael Lovitch
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: January 22, 2010 10:16AM
Here is an "underground secret society success interview" with Michael Lovitch (who says he has a Master's degree in Rhetoric):
[[url=http://www.marketersonamission.org/contributions/secretsocietyinterview11.pdf]"How To Generate a 7-Figure Worldwide Publishing Empire Without Any of Your Own Content"[/url]]
[[url=http://www.marketersonamission.org/contributions/secretsocietyinterview11.pdf]"How To Generate a 7-Figure Worldwide Publishing Empire Without Any of Your Own Content"[/url]]
Re: Dave Lakhani, exploringthemind.com, Michael Lovitch
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 22, 2010 01:30PM
Pardon the salty language, but the Saltry Droid is a bad influence...
But what the fuck is it with these guys and their alleged GOOD INTENTIONS game??!
Haven't they heard the old wise proverb...The road to hell is paved with good intentions?
And they see to be amazingly skilled at Mind-Reading, as they are able to know everyone's intentions.
Dave Lakhani even refused to say that James Ray had selfish and bad intentions to exploit people, when in fact that has been PROVEN by the photos in his sales office. Never mind you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see James Ray is some type of sociopath, if not an actual psychopath.
Back to Good Intentions...
What if you are feeling badly depressed, and have intense anxiety, and are having some suicidal thoughts. Your "beer buddy" tells you he is an expert in treating psychological issues, because he says he is an expert Master Practitioner of NLP. So he starts to "treat" you, finds serious trauma in your past, and starts fooling around with your trauma, and triggering your trauma. His malpractice is so awful, you end up having a mental breakdown, and end up in the hospital...from flooding the PTSD.
But wait wait...your beer buddy had GOOD INTENTIONS! He says he wanted to help you, but instead his arrogance and ignorance put you in the hospital by flooding your trauma.
But his intentions were good!
No they weren't.
His intentions were selfish, and arrogant, and ignorant. And if he charged you money, then he is likely exploiting others to make a buck.
The stuff about CAN by Dave Lakhani, is not a "mistake".
More likely, he read the CAN website, and agreed with the ideas on the website, which are a condensed cult apologist viewpoint, which is almost identical to the viewpoints of many covert persuaders.
The cult apologists say religious freedom allows them to do whatever they want in the name of their religion, including deception and covert powerful persuasion.
The covert persuaders say capitalism allows them to use every persuasion technique that exists to make as much money as possible. And tough nuts if you don't like it.
Its interesting that Michael Lovitch is just talking about CAN, but what about NLP?
Why doesn't he make Dave Lakhani post proof of his advertised credentials?
This Dave Lakhani stuff is not personal, its about what he is doing professionally.
And guess what, James Arthur Ray was also fun to have a beer with for his Secret buddies, and he was able to get young women to dress up in black as his Death Angels, while he played God and ordered people to die.
And right after Colleen Conaway died at the James Ray's seminar, they also had a HUGE PARTY, where everyone had a wonderful time.
So what does saying that Dave Lakhani likes to drink beer with his buddies and marketing buddies, have to do with anything? Who cares? Its totally irrelavant.
Unless of course, a person is attempting to do some persuasion by association, and say, hey...I know this person, and we drink beers and play darts...he is not hypnotizing you or persuading you...even though all of his advertising, books, CD's, DVD's, websites, are designed to hypnotize and persuade you.
That is a giant steaming load of bullshit.
Michael Lovitch:
Notice Michael Lovitch uses the words "coercive leader" when referring to Lakhani, in terms of refuting it. That is a STRAW-MAN, and it appears to be deliberate.
Also, Michael Lovitch didn't notice the CAN blunder either, so instead of closing his ears and eyes, why not instead so some research?
Is Michael Lovitch supposed to be another conversational hypnosis expert? Is his websites about cross-marketing hypnosis programs?
No one has said Lakhani is a coercive leader, he is a professional persuader, a mass manipulator, who uses every technique in the book, including covert hypnosis.
Dave Lakhani is not "far away" from being a manipulative leader, that is what he does for a living. He does what he says he teaches.
The mountain of BS that has come downwind from Dave Lakhani, is very very large, and very blatant, as has been shown in this thread.
What can come out of this, is that there are hundreds of people out there, doing pretty much the same thing.
They postition themselves as Anti-Gurus and as being against cults and manipulative persuasion, when in fact, they are doing basically the same thing themselves. They are only against people they don't like, and competitors.
The reality is that Dave Lakhani is not a reliable source in the least for any of this material, and should be avoided. He made his own bed of misdirection, and attempts at propaganda, so now he has to live in it.
But what the fuck is it with these guys and their alleged GOOD INTENTIONS game??!
Haven't they heard the old wise proverb...The road to hell is paved with good intentions?
And they see to be amazingly skilled at Mind-Reading, as they are able to know everyone's intentions.
Dave Lakhani even refused to say that James Ray had selfish and bad intentions to exploit people, when in fact that has been PROVEN by the photos in his sales office. Never mind you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see James Ray is some type of sociopath, if not an actual psychopath.
Back to Good Intentions...
What if you are feeling badly depressed, and have intense anxiety, and are having some suicidal thoughts. Your "beer buddy" tells you he is an expert in treating psychological issues, because he says he is an expert Master Practitioner of NLP. So he starts to "treat" you, finds serious trauma in your past, and starts fooling around with your trauma, and triggering your trauma. His malpractice is so awful, you end up having a mental breakdown, and end up in the hospital...from flooding the PTSD.
But wait wait...your beer buddy had GOOD INTENTIONS! He says he wanted to help you, but instead his arrogance and ignorance put you in the hospital by flooding your trauma.
But his intentions were good!
No they weren't.
His intentions were selfish, and arrogant, and ignorant. And if he charged you money, then he is likely exploiting others to make a buck.
The stuff about CAN by Dave Lakhani, is not a "mistake".
More likely, he read the CAN website, and agreed with the ideas on the website, which are a condensed cult apologist viewpoint, which is almost identical to the viewpoints of many covert persuaders.
The cult apologists say religious freedom allows them to do whatever they want in the name of their religion, including deception and covert powerful persuasion.
The covert persuaders say capitalism allows them to use every persuasion technique that exists to make as much money as possible. And tough nuts if you don't like it.
Its interesting that Michael Lovitch is just talking about CAN, but what about NLP?
Why doesn't he make Dave Lakhani post proof of his advertised credentials?
This Dave Lakhani stuff is not personal, its about what he is doing professionally.
And guess what, James Arthur Ray was also fun to have a beer with for his Secret buddies, and he was able to get young women to dress up in black as his Death Angels, while he played God and ordered people to die.
And right after Colleen Conaway died at the James Ray's seminar, they also had a HUGE PARTY, where everyone had a wonderful time.
So what does saying that Dave Lakhani likes to drink beer with his buddies and marketing buddies, have to do with anything? Who cares? Its totally irrelavant.
Unless of course, a person is attempting to do some persuasion by association, and say, hey...I know this person, and we drink beers and play darts...he is not hypnotizing you or persuading you...even though all of his advertising, books, CD's, DVD's, websites, are designed to hypnotize and persuade you.
That is a giant steaming load of bullshit.
Michael Lovitch:
Notice Michael Lovitch uses the words "coercive leader" when referring to Lakhani, in terms of refuting it. That is a STRAW-MAN, and it appears to be deliberate.
Also, Michael Lovitch didn't notice the CAN blunder either, so instead of closing his ears and eyes, why not instead so some research?
Is Michael Lovitch supposed to be another conversational hypnosis expert? Is his websites about cross-marketing hypnosis programs?
No one has said Lakhani is a coercive leader, he is a professional persuader, a mass manipulator, who uses every technique in the book, including covert hypnosis.
Dave Lakhani is not "far away" from being a manipulative leader, that is what he does for a living. He does what he says he teaches.
The mountain of BS that has come downwind from Dave Lakhani, is very very large, and very blatant, as has been shown in this thread.
What can come out of this, is that there are hundreds of people out there, doing pretty much the same thing.
They postition themselves as Anti-Gurus and as being against cults and manipulative persuasion, when in fact, they are doing basically the same thing themselves. They are only against people they don't like, and competitors.
The reality is that Dave Lakhani is not a reliable source in the least for any of this material, and should be avoided. He made his own bed of misdirection, and attempts at propaganda, so now he has to live in it.
Dave Lakhani, exploringthemind.com, Michael Lovitch, lies and liars
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 22, 2010 01:57PM
Well, well, well...
Michael Lovitch is a co-founder of...The Hypnosis Network.
Imagine that.
They sell 25 mainstream hypnosis products, and its a very slick website.
www.hypnosisnetwork.com/products
A glaring omission are the persuasion products that utilize hypnosis, one would have to check around for those links.
At the bottom, there is a section on Ericksonian Hypnosis.
But Michael Lovitch's own website says [www.hypnosisnetwork.com] "Dave Lakhani, persuasion expert, mentioned Dr. Peter Lambrou's program Subconscious Sales Success Strategies: Volume 1 on the episode "The New Art of Selling" on July 1."
And on his blog, How to Spot a Liar in Four Easy Steps by Michael Lovitch
www.hypnosisnetwork.com/blog/mygh-alert/how-to-spot-a-liar-in-four-easy-steps
Heres a tip for Michael Lovitch on how to spot lies and a liar.
When someone tells you they are an NLP Master Practitioner, ask them for proof. If they refuse to give it, then what?
And its not that hard to spot professional liars, you can't tell by mind-reading their Good Intentions, or listening to their vocal tonalities. And the 4 tips by Michael Lovitch are not going to work for professional liars who do it for a living.
What you do is carefully cross-check what they are saying, and by the time you hit the 25th lie, then you know you are dealing with a professional liar and applied propagandist.
Its not rocket science.
_______quote excerpt for analysis_________________________________
Dave Lakhani says [www.hypnosisnetwork.com]
Dave Lakhani 12.23.08 at 5:05 pm
Michael -
Great post, very well done.
And, to all the NLP practitioners out there (of which I’m a master practitioner)
...Detecting lies also goes to the skill of the liar. Highly skilled liars are very difficult to detect because they have often internalized their lies so well that they begin to believe them themselves, not when they ask themselves if it is true or not, but when they deliver them, they become psychologically congruent.
If people use your four simple steps they’ll certainly do a much better job of avoiding deception.
_________________________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 02:20PM by The Anticult.
Michael Lovitch is a co-founder of...The Hypnosis Network.
Imagine that.
They sell 25 mainstream hypnosis products, and its a very slick website.
www.hypnosisnetwork.com/products
A glaring omission are the persuasion products that utilize hypnosis, one would have to check around for those links.
At the bottom, there is a section on Ericksonian Hypnosis.
But Michael Lovitch's own website says [www.hypnosisnetwork.com] "Dave Lakhani, persuasion expert, mentioned Dr. Peter Lambrou's program Subconscious Sales Success Strategies: Volume 1 on the episode "The New Art of Selling" on July 1."
And on his blog, How to Spot a Liar in Four Easy Steps by Michael Lovitch
www.hypnosisnetwork.com/blog/mygh-alert/how-to-spot-a-liar-in-four-easy-steps
Heres a tip for Michael Lovitch on how to spot lies and a liar.
When someone tells you they are an NLP Master Practitioner, ask them for proof. If they refuse to give it, then what?
And its not that hard to spot professional liars, you can't tell by mind-reading their Good Intentions, or listening to their vocal tonalities. And the 4 tips by Michael Lovitch are not going to work for professional liars who do it for a living.
What you do is carefully cross-check what they are saying, and by the time you hit the 25th lie, then you know you are dealing with a professional liar and applied propagandist.
Its not rocket science.
_______quote excerpt for analysis_________________________________
Dave Lakhani says [www.hypnosisnetwork.com]
Dave Lakhani 12.23.08 at 5:05 pm
Michael -
Great post, very well done.
And, to all the NLP practitioners out there (of which I’m a master practitioner)
...Detecting lies also goes to the skill of the liar. Highly skilled liars are very difficult to detect because they have often internalized their lies so well that they begin to believe them themselves, not when they ask themselves if it is true or not, but when they deliver them, they become psychologically congruent.
If people use your four simple steps they’ll certainly do a much better job of avoiding deception.
_________________________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 02:20PM by The Anticult.
Subliminal Persuasion, Dave Lakhani, Creating A Cult Following.
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 23, 2010 06:26AM
A quick analysis of the book Subliminal Persuasion by Dave Lakhani.
There has been so much BS and deliberate confusion put forward around this issue and Dave Lakhani, when in reality its not that complicated.
The distortion starts right in the Preface to the book, where Lakhani redefines subliminal persuasion to be equated with propaganda, in the sense of causing a group of people to take actions designed by the persuader, not by the people themselves.
He then starts in pressing the buttons of fear again, saying the material is "frightening". Its all deliberate emotional manipulation by the author.
He says its manipulation if that is your "intent". This is wrong wrong wrong.
Does Lakhani know this is wrong? Or did he just mimick these concepts from Kevin Hogan or others? It does sound like he is just parroting the rationalizations from other mass manipulators.
Its is NOT about "intent", as anyone with the ability to think can understand.
Kevin Hogan, who hires Dave Lakhani at his seminars on Covert Hypnosis, has a 5 Star review at Amazon for this book. Does Kevin Hogan tell people he is biased and give full disclosure? Of course not. Just outright shilling for a business partner.
Kevin Hogan review of Subliminal Persuasion [www.amazon.com]
Notice the "mistake" by Kevin Hogan in the review, where he says..QUOTE: "Maybe the hottest chapter is Creating a Cultic Following, followed immediately, interestingly enough by a chapter on Seduction."
That is not another "mistake"...that is DECEPTION. The Chapter is called Creating A Cult Following...not "cultic". Lakhani does not use the word cultic anywhere, in the index its the word cult. These guys are really off the charts, creepy and intentionally intellectually dishonest. One can't believe anything they say, due to the constant stream of bullshit.
Other Amazon reviews pick up on the BS...
QUOTE: "I've always relied on Amazon customer reviews before I bought books from Amazon. But numerous 5 star ratings of this book were actually submitted by friends of the author promoting the book. I'm disappointed and I won't rely on Amazon's customer reviews anymore."
QUOTE: "In short, full of generalizations, unsubstantiatied half-thruths and platitudes."
This nosnense about human "intent" is to create confusion they know many people are totally self-deluded.
Beyond that, some people think that committing robbery has a good intent, literally. They tell themselves, that insurance covers the robbery, and that the insurance company can raise premiums and make more profit, so that robbery is good for the economy. Many robbers tell themselves they are the good guys.
Intent is actually totally irrelevant. What matters is the consequences, what happens to the people.
So this Red Herring about intent, is just to give the mass manipulators a rationalization to do what they want to do.
Page XVI in Preface: Quote: "persuasion in all its forms is good" "subliminal persuasion is right".
He then uses the Gordon Gekko "Greed Is Good" speech, to say persuasion as good. He does it as an example, but also to persuade you that all persuasion is good. Where did he copy that trick from? Kevin Hogan?
He says CONFUSION is a powerful subliminal technique. He's good at that one, creating confusion.
Probably the biggest persuasion trick in this book, is how Lakhani tries to reframe all persuasion, especially his kind, as being "ethical". That is a tactic he is using.
He even admits he is using subliminal persuasion in the book, and then uses embedded commands from NLP to reinforce that again.
He describes tactics to use relationship models to modify core beliefs and ideas.
How to create Urban Legends and Stories, which in fact is how Dave promotes himself.
Soundbites, hooks, leveraging social proof, embed presumptions it is accurate, crafting stories, viral marketing of urban legends, manipulating episodic memory, message contagion.
Creating you own vocabulary, is something he talks about. This is what Lakhani does trying to reframe propaganda, persuasion vs manipulation, and the rest of it. Does it work? No, it doesn't, it backfires.
This is what he does with the word "ethics", just like Werner Erhard did with the word "Integrity".
Werner Erhard on Integrity, Morality, Ethics, Legality [forum.culteducation.com]
He has a section on Edward Bernays, but there are many other books that cover Bernays in great detail, that are accurately researched, not a mess like in this book.
He talks about Storytelling, and creating your Persona and Legend, myth, hooks... The problem here is that when its full of lies, then it backfires on you, he left out that part.
QUOTE: "the best lie is 90% true". p 47
He talks about his alleged undercover police work, and creating identities. Frankly, it sounds like more bullshitting, like the guy who is a mall security guard who tells women in bars he is uncover for the FBI. The Story is not believable without hard evidence, and there is no evidence, just Stories about the Legend of Dave Lakhani. Not believable.
He gets into Emotional manipulation, Social Proof, getting endorsements, creating True Believers, programming beliefs, creating new persuasive beliefs, many humans want to be fooled.
He tries to modify your own beliefs about persuasion, so you'll think its wonderful, and come and attend his expensive seminars!
There is an entire chapter on manipulating the online world, blogs, video, teleseminars, using many techniques,which have been seen in this thread...subverting critical thinking, sensationalism sells, conversation domination, reputation management..
Creating and managing expectations, invite them into a fantasy world, lure them into the fantasy world you have created, make the buyer the Hero.
Control words and language, short phrases, consistency in your message, tell them what they want to hear, paint big word pictures.
He then adds a bunch of disinformation about Covert language, NLP hypnotic language patterns, embedded commands. Then suggests using Metaphors, which is also from the NLP persuasion game.
Chapter 10: Creating A Cult Following [forum.culteducation.com] creating connectedness, exclusive access, identity, how to build the cult following, create the ideal worldview, make it fun, praise them (love-bomb), how to lead your cult, create a joint enemy and threat, create an inner circle from carefully selected members.
Chapter 11: Seduction, make your audience desire and fall in love with you, make them want more of you all the time, create tension and desire, intense longing, cause them to surrender. Salvation is their overriding need. Set up long term relationships using seduction. Present yourself as showing concern, compassion, access, as that is seductive.
Ben Mack does the Afterword. (Is he really a real "Dr" or one of those fake internet ones?)
But Ben Mack tells the reader that Dave has gone TOO FAR, and has armed the tyrants, and given info to be used by sick minds. He says the book is irresponsible.
Of course, that is just more PR and scare-tactics for his buddy Dave. There is no new information in this book, nothing.
And the Edward Bernays material has been out for years and decades, Ben Mack is either clueless, or is acting clueless, these guys are a bad joke.
Here is a book about Bernays and others from 1996:
PR!: A Social History of Spin By Stuart Ewen 1996 [home.bway.net]
The book closes with a big shill for Coaching, which of course is a big cash-cow.
---------------------------
SUBLIMINAL PERSUASION cross-post: [forum.culteducation.com]
There is a book called Subliminal Persuasion Book By Dave Lakhani, and its sitting right here.
The Forword is by Kevin Hogan, the hypnotist and persuader. Even Kevin Hogan in the books intro tells you to "WATCH OUT...Dave might have a hidden agenda he isn't telling you about".
Well, someone is going to tell you about it.
First off, he is using that technique, of telling people to watch out, as a technique to build mystery in the reader. When a persuader tells you to watch out for the hidden agenda, then they are trying to give you a double-whammy mindfuck, as they know their audience is looking for that. Its a Red Herring for more misdirection.
He does the same thing in the book from page 1. One page 1, Dave Lakhani says his publisher refused to publish the REAL book he wanted to publish as it was TOO DANGEROUS, and made him publish a more lame one. (so you just bought a crappy lame book sucka!)
Do you believe that? Hopefully not. Its a tactic.
He wants it to sound like he wrote a banned book, and that the real edgy material is not in the book, as its too dangerous.
That way later, he can direct you to his "exclusive" group which pays lots of money to learn the alleged secret techniques of persuasion. (read his previous book to learn that specific technique)
So he's setting you up for that from the first page of the book, from first contact.
You are being primed to want to join up into the expensive exclusive group, to learn the real DANGEROUS techniques of mass persuasion, that are not in the book.
Who is that meant to attract? Its meant to attract the kind of people who want to be able to do that kind of exploitation and manipulation to people.
As has been said before, its the big sharks eating the little wannabe sharks for lunch.
He even says elsewhere he might REJECT you from the inner group, even if you have the money! (haha! that is another tactic from his other book, when you REJECT your clients and try to play hard to get). Dave is gonna take your money, you can take that to the bank.
This is why James Ray and Byron Katie target the NEW AGE audience, as they don't ask these kinds of questions. They just go into a deep-trance on command, and buy what they are told to buy.
But does not even scratch the surface of what is going down with this.
Its a shame some respected researchers don't carefully go through all of these advanced persuasion techniques, and write some textbooks explaining them in great detail, for the benefit of those who get exploited.
Until that happens, one has to get some info from those Blackbelt persuaders, who are kicking you in the head to knock you unconscious, at the same time supposedly teaching you persuasion techniques.
Its almost comical how without exception, as they are kicking you in the head to knock you unconscious, they are telling you that kicks to the head are not that powerful.
They are telling you that, so you don't duck.
--------------------------
----------------------
(cross-post) In the book Subliminal Persuasion, Chapter 10 is called: Creating A Cult Following.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Dave Lakhani has a book called Subliminal Persuasion, with a website www.subliminalpersuasionbook.com
That website again, is full of persuasion tactics, many of them covert. Be extremely skeptical and analytical about every word, sentence, and claim being made.
In the book Subliminal Persuasion, Chapter 10 is called: Creating A Cult Following.
In that chapter, he deliberates puts in misleading info, equating a cult, with marketing of Harley Davidson and Jimmy Buffet Parrotheads, and making a mishmash of cults and branding. This idea of "cult marketing" is just copied from others, and there is quite a bit of disturbing writing in that chapter.
Its frankly disgusting how Lakhani made comments in this thread about people not knowing the difference between marketing and cults, when in fact the opposite is true. It's clear that Lakhani is the one who doesn't know the difference, and/or is deliberately creating confusion for his own purposes.
In the book, he says there is a link on his website called JOIN MY CULT.
He then uses truly manipulative methods to imply this is an "insiders" group that will "frighten" some people, but its the ONLY way to learn the POWERFUL techniques he teaches...but he says don't worry you are PERFECTLY SAFE, but you will be SHOCKED by his information.
You can see how perverse all of that is, a vulgar attempt at manipulation, that if tried in person could perhaps result in a glass of ice-water being poured over the manipulators head, to disrupt the process. The serious thing is many people will not see those tactics, and will fall for it, and get lured into this Lakhani "insiders group" which is a type of LGAT-like cultish group around a so-called covert persuasion teacher. That is what is being attempted.
Its an embedded command...JOIN MY CULT, guised with sarcasm, but then he manipulates the reader into thinking its a special insiders group with secret knowledge. He also uses his standard attempts at using FEAR and SHOCK.
He then closes with his other technique of saying you are "perfectly safe", which is the same drum he beats when he says you can trust his unverified claims.
You are NOT perfectly safe.
In fact, its the opposite, and there are very strong WARNINGS about the methods and tactics being used. The amount of outright BS found so far stinks to high heaven.
One can see even at the bottom of that website www.subliminalpersuasionbook.com he uses a very simple advanced technique...closing with..."Your friend"
Most people don't realize that the most advanced influence technique is to make your customers believe you are their BEST FRIEND. That is a fact. That is what is taught, and that is what he tries to do, also to try and make people "trust" him, while at the same time using FEAR tactics.
There are also direct commands on that website. Look at the top, it says...
ORDER THE BOOK!
And the word ORDER is in red and in bold, and its a command, an order. Dave Lakhani is ORDERING you to ORDER the book. That is a layered embedded and direct command.
No time right now to analyze the rest of that website and the book, but that will follow.
to the trained eye, there are about 100 red flags all screaming at once about the manipulation techniques being used by Dave Lakhani.
You are not "perfectly safe", far from it, quite the contrary.
--------------------------
There has been so much BS and deliberate confusion put forward around this issue and Dave Lakhani, when in reality its not that complicated.
The distortion starts right in the Preface to the book, where Lakhani redefines subliminal persuasion to be equated with propaganda, in the sense of causing a group of people to take actions designed by the persuader, not by the people themselves.
He then starts in pressing the buttons of fear again, saying the material is "frightening". Its all deliberate emotional manipulation by the author.
He says its manipulation if that is your "intent". This is wrong wrong wrong.
Does Lakhani know this is wrong? Or did he just mimick these concepts from Kevin Hogan or others? It does sound like he is just parroting the rationalizations from other mass manipulators.
Its is NOT about "intent", as anyone with the ability to think can understand.
Kevin Hogan, who hires Dave Lakhani at his seminars on Covert Hypnosis, has a 5 Star review at Amazon for this book. Does Kevin Hogan tell people he is biased and give full disclosure? Of course not. Just outright shilling for a business partner.
Kevin Hogan review of Subliminal Persuasion [www.amazon.com]
Notice the "mistake" by Kevin Hogan in the review, where he says..QUOTE: "Maybe the hottest chapter is Creating a Cultic Following, followed immediately, interestingly enough by a chapter on Seduction."
That is not another "mistake"...that is DECEPTION. The Chapter is called Creating A Cult Following...not "cultic". Lakhani does not use the word cultic anywhere, in the index its the word cult. These guys are really off the charts, creepy and intentionally intellectually dishonest. One can't believe anything they say, due to the constant stream of bullshit.
Other Amazon reviews pick up on the BS...
QUOTE: "I've always relied on Amazon customer reviews before I bought books from Amazon. But numerous 5 star ratings of this book were actually submitted by friends of the author promoting the book. I'm disappointed and I won't rely on Amazon's customer reviews anymore."
QUOTE: "In short, full of generalizations, unsubstantiatied half-thruths and platitudes."
This nosnense about human "intent" is to create confusion they know many people are totally self-deluded.
Beyond that, some people think that committing robbery has a good intent, literally. They tell themselves, that insurance covers the robbery, and that the insurance company can raise premiums and make more profit, so that robbery is good for the economy. Many robbers tell themselves they are the good guys.
Intent is actually totally irrelevant. What matters is the consequences, what happens to the people.
So this Red Herring about intent, is just to give the mass manipulators a rationalization to do what they want to do.
Page XVI in Preface: Quote: "persuasion in all its forms is good" "subliminal persuasion is right".
He then uses the Gordon Gekko "Greed Is Good" speech, to say persuasion as good. He does it as an example, but also to persuade you that all persuasion is good. Where did he copy that trick from? Kevin Hogan?
He says CONFUSION is a powerful subliminal technique. He's good at that one, creating confusion.
Probably the biggest persuasion trick in this book, is how Lakhani tries to reframe all persuasion, especially his kind, as being "ethical". That is a tactic he is using.
He even admits he is using subliminal persuasion in the book, and then uses embedded commands from NLP to reinforce that again.
He describes tactics to use relationship models to modify core beliefs and ideas.
How to create Urban Legends and Stories, which in fact is how Dave promotes himself.
Soundbites, hooks, leveraging social proof, embed presumptions it is accurate, crafting stories, viral marketing of urban legends, manipulating episodic memory, message contagion.
Creating you own vocabulary, is something he talks about. This is what Lakhani does trying to reframe propaganda, persuasion vs manipulation, and the rest of it. Does it work? No, it doesn't, it backfires.
This is what he does with the word "ethics", just like Werner Erhard did with the word "Integrity".
Werner Erhard on Integrity, Morality, Ethics, Legality [forum.culteducation.com]
He has a section on Edward Bernays, but there are many other books that cover Bernays in great detail, that are accurately researched, not a mess like in this book.
He talks about Storytelling, and creating your Persona and Legend, myth, hooks... The problem here is that when its full of lies, then it backfires on you, he left out that part.
QUOTE: "the best lie is 90% true". p 47
He talks about his alleged undercover police work, and creating identities. Frankly, it sounds like more bullshitting, like the guy who is a mall security guard who tells women in bars he is uncover for the FBI. The Story is not believable without hard evidence, and there is no evidence, just Stories about the Legend of Dave Lakhani. Not believable.
He gets into Emotional manipulation, Social Proof, getting endorsements, creating True Believers, programming beliefs, creating new persuasive beliefs, many humans want to be fooled.
He tries to modify your own beliefs about persuasion, so you'll think its wonderful, and come and attend his expensive seminars!
There is an entire chapter on manipulating the online world, blogs, video, teleseminars, using many techniques,which have been seen in this thread...subverting critical thinking, sensationalism sells, conversation domination, reputation management..
Creating and managing expectations, invite them into a fantasy world, lure them into the fantasy world you have created, make the buyer the Hero.
Control words and language, short phrases, consistency in your message, tell them what they want to hear, paint big word pictures.
He then adds a bunch of disinformation about Covert language, NLP hypnotic language patterns, embedded commands. Then suggests using Metaphors, which is also from the NLP persuasion game.
Chapter 10: Creating A Cult Following [forum.culteducation.com] creating connectedness, exclusive access, identity, how to build the cult following, create the ideal worldview, make it fun, praise them (love-bomb), how to lead your cult, create a joint enemy and threat, create an inner circle from carefully selected members.
Chapter 11: Seduction, make your audience desire and fall in love with you, make them want more of you all the time, create tension and desire, intense longing, cause them to surrender. Salvation is their overriding need. Set up long term relationships using seduction. Present yourself as showing concern, compassion, access, as that is seductive.
Ben Mack does the Afterword. (Is he really a real "Dr" or one of those fake internet ones?)
But Ben Mack tells the reader that Dave has gone TOO FAR, and has armed the tyrants, and given info to be used by sick minds. He says the book is irresponsible.
Of course, that is just more PR and scare-tactics for his buddy Dave. There is no new information in this book, nothing.
And the Edward Bernays material has been out for years and decades, Ben Mack is either clueless, or is acting clueless, these guys are a bad joke.
Here is a book about Bernays and others from 1996:
PR!: A Social History of Spin By Stuart Ewen 1996 [home.bway.net]
The book closes with a big shill for Coaching, which of course is a big cash-cow.
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SUBLIMINAL PERSUASION cross-post: [forum.culteducation.com]
There is a book called Subliminal Persuasion Book By Dave Lakhani, and its sitting right here.
The Forword is by Kevin Hogan, the hypnotist and persuader. Even Kevin Hogan in the books intro tells you to "WATCH OUT...Dave might have a hidden agenda he isn't telling you about".
Well, someone is going to tell you about it.
First off, he is using that technique, of telling people to watch out, as a technique to build mystery in the reader. When a persuader tells you to watch out for the hidden agenda, then they are trying to give you a double-whammy mindfuck, as they know their audience is looking for that. Its a Red Herring for more misdirection.
He does the same thing in the book from page 1. One page 1, Dave Lakhani says his publisher refused to publish the REAL book he wanted to publish as it was TOO DANGEROUS, and made him publish a more lame one. (so you just bought a crappy lame book sucka!)
Do you believe that? Hopefully not. Its a tactic.
He wants it to sound like he wrote a banned book, and that the real edgy material is not in the book, as its too dangerous.
That way later, he can direct you to his "exclusive" group which pays lots of money to learn the alleged secret techniques of persuasion. (read his previous book to learn that specific technique)
So he's setting you up for that from the first page of the book, from first contact.
You are being primed to want to join up into the expensive exclusive group, to learn the real DANGEROUS techniques of mass persuasion, that are not in the book.
Who is that meant to attract? Its meant to attract the kind of people who want to be able to do that kind of exploitation and manipulation to people.
As has been said before, its the big sharks eating the little wannabe sharks for lunch.
He even says elsewhere he might REJECT you from the inner group, even if you have the money! (haha! that is another tactic from his other book, when you REJECT your clients and try to play hard to get). Dave is gonna take your money, you can take that to the bank.
This is why James Ray and Byron Katie target the NEW AGE audience, as they don't ask these kinds of questions. They just go into a deep-trance on command, and buy what they are told to buy.
But does not even scratch the surface of what is going down with this.
Its a shame some respected researchers don't carefully go through all of these advanced persuasion techniques, and write some textbooks explaining them in great detail, for the benefit of those who get exploited.
Until that happens, one has to get some info from those Blackbelt persuaders, who are kicking you in the head to knock you unconscious, at the same time supposedly teaching you persuasion techniques.
Its almost comical how without exception, as they are kicking you in the head to knock you unconscious, they are telling you that kicks to the head are not that powerful.
They are telling you that, so you don't duck.
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(cross-post) In the book Subliminal Persuasion, Chapter 10 is called: Creating A Cult Following.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Dave Lakhani has a book called Subliminal Persuasion, with a website www.subliminalpersuasionbook.com
That website again, is full of persuasion tactics, many of them covert. Be extremely skeptical and analytical about every word, sentence, and claim being made.
In the book Subliminal Persuasion, Chapter 10 is called: Creating A Cult Following.
In that chapter, he deliberates puts in misleading info, equating a cult, with marketing of Harley Davidson and Jimmy Buffet Parrotheads, and making a mishmash of cults and branding. This idea of "cult marketing" is just copied from others, and there is quite a bit of disturbing writing in that chapter.
Its frankly disgusting how Lakhani made comments in this thread about people not knowing the difference between marketing and cults, when in fact the opposite is true. It's clear that Lakhani is the one who doesn't know the difference, and/or is deliberately creating confusion for his own purposes.
In the book, he says there is a link on his website called JOIN MY CULT.
He then uses truly manipulative methods to imply this is an "insiders" group that will "frighten" some people, but its the ONLY way to learn the POWERFUL techniques he teaches...but he says don't worry you are PERFECTLY SAFE, but you will be SHOCKED by his information.
You can see how perverse all of that is, a vulgar attempt at manipulation, that if tried in person could perhaps result in a glass of ice-water being poured over the manipulators head, to disrupt the process. The serious thing is many people will not see those tactics, and will fall for it, and get lured into this Lakhani "insiders group" which is a type of LGAT-like cultish group around a so-called covert persuasion teacher. That is what is being attempted.
Its an embedded command...JOIN MY CULT, guised with sarcasm, but then he manipulates the reader into thinking its a special insiders group with secret knowledge. He also uses his standard attempts at using FEAR and SHOCK.
He then closes with his other technique of saying you are "perfectly safe", which is the same drum he beats when he says you can trust his unverified claims.
You are NOT perfectly safe.
In fact, its the opposite, and there are very strong WARNINGS about the methods and tactics being used. The amount of outright BS found so far stinks to high heaven.
One can see even at the bottom of that website www.subliminalpersuasionbook.com he uses a very simple advanced technique...closing with..."Your friend"
Most people don't realize that the most advanced influence technique is to make your customers believe you are their BEST FRIEND. That is a fact. That is what is taught, and that is what he tries to do, also to try and make people "trust" him, while at the same time using FEAR tactics.
There are also direct commands on that website. Look at the top, it says...
ORDER THE BOOK!
And the word ORDER is in red and in bold, and its a command, an order. Dave Lakhani is ORDERING you to ORDER the book. That is a layered embedded and direct command.
No time right now to analyze the rest of that website and the book, but that will follow.
to the trained eye, there are about 100 red flags all screaming at once about the manipulation techniques being used by Dave Lakhani.
You are not "perfectly safe", far from it, quite the contrary.
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