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Re: James Arthur Ray - Nightline - ABC News
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 31, 2009 08:58AM

One interesting thing from Nightline, is that they do talk about James Ray's past as a telemarketer and salesman.
Its a classic story.

Professional salespeople take all sorts of courses and trainings about improving their sales skills, and closing skills, negotiating, and persuasion.
So they can make more money.
There are many books and seminars on this subject.

There are also many seminars on Advanced Selling techniques, which begin to get into the more complex and subtle tactics of invisible influence, and group persuasion.
It doesn't take long for a sales professional to catch-on, and then get their hands on every technique they can find.

The professional salesperson goes to a New Age seminar, and he/she can see all of the sales techniques embedded in the seminar, from top to bottom, in seconds.

But that is what James Ray is.
He was a salesman, who started to learn more advanced selling techniques, which then leads you into the more advanced and powerful methods of influence, and social influence methods.
That then leads you into the unconscious Influence methods, which simply means influencing people to do what you want them to do without them being aware of it, and thinking it was their own idea.
There is masses of material in exactly how to do that.
Engineering consent, persuasion engineering.

It can be very advanced and technical, yet at the same time very subtle. For example, one of the most advanced sales techniques is making people feel like you are their BEST FRIEND. They show you how to do this, with mirroring, listening, eliciting their modalities of friendship, and the whole 9 yards. You have to be a sociopath to do this to people to extract money off them, but some people will happily do it.

So its the most advanced sales techniques, taken to the point where it becomes something else, when applied to groups of people.
Every LGAT Guru and other spriritual Guru's have all studied the same techniques to refine their skills.

Then you get a guy like James Ray, who own aggressive and ruthless personality drives him to take it to the limit.
But he is not the only one, there are many many others doing the same thing.

But what about Colleen Conaway, and all the others who have been hurt for years?

Up to the day of the deaths at Sedona, James Ray was a hero to much of the media and Oprah. Oprah made James Ray, and introduced him to her naive audience.
Why would Oprah repeatedly promote such an obvious SHARK to her audience, when the signs were so obvious to the trained-eye?

James Ray was identified for what he was almost 3 years ago right here in minutes. []

So there is a terrible blind spot in new agey and 'spiritual' people who don't want to see how the sausage is made.
If you want to get enlightened, read books on Advanced Sales techniques, where it gets into the specific methods and uses of embedded metaphors, and everything else they do to manipulate and persuade people to buy now.
James Ray does every one of those techniques, and it could be studied from top to bottom, right down to his contracts people sign for multiple seminars, paid in advance.
Standard methods.
Pump people up into a manic frenzy, get them to sign on the line for 30K, no refunds.

Its all about extremely advanced influence techniques.
Beyond that, they get into the mind-control level of advanced influence, with the starving and head-shaving, sleep deprivation, peer pressure, and everything else.

One lady in the Nightline piece said she realized during the homeless game she had been RIPPED-OFF for a large amount of money.
Bingo, that is real enlightenment.

Most don't realize that the most advanced LGAT's ultimate lesson after you spend 50K, is that....YOU CAN SELL PEOPLE NOTHING FOR 50K.
That is literally the "message" of a couple of LGAT's right at the end of all the courses.
That you can SELL PEOPLE ILLUSIONS for unlimited amounts of money, if you know how to do it.

And the Sharks in the audience attain "enlightenment" and go out and try to do it to others.

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James Arthur Ray - NLP, advanced persuasion, hypnosis, influence
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 31, 2009 09:23AM

This is a special message for a few of the NLPers and weasels who are running around trying to deflect this advanced persuasion stuff away from NLP, and how James Arthur Ray uses parts of it.

Those folks are lying right through their capped bleached teeth.
Its all there in black and white.

James Ray has directly mimicked and copied a number of people, almost like a robot, people like Tony Robbins, but many others as well. He has mimicked the words, the phrases, the intonation, the audience call-response, posture, the hand gestures, everything.
In NLP that is called NLP Modeling, where you go and precisely COPY those who are effective at doing something.
So they Modeled / COPIED the most advanced persuaders, every aspect of it. Its very common in that field to see these guys running around copying those who are the best persuaders, and they become like "clones" of them.
James Arthur Ray copied, NLP modeled, and cloned the most advanced persuaders he could find, like the guys who are running the other biggest LGAT seminars and making millions.

These days, with Torrents, anyone can access a large chunk of that material, some of which is posted below for reference. Every advanced persuader has read most of this material, and much more beyond that.
This doesn't even stratch the surface.

{not endorsing any Torrents. Links for educational reference purposes only}


NLP Hypnosis Influence Persuasion patterns

/A Robbins - The Power To Influence (Sales Mastery).pdf 7.04 MB
/Bandler - Tranceformations 17pp - book summary.pdf 73.17 KB
/Bandler_La Valle_Milton Patterns.doc 26.50 KB
/Charles Faulkner - Creating Irresistible Influence.pdf 387.76 KB
/Donald Moine - 1990_six tapes - summary.pdf 1.20 MB
/Donald Moine - 6 audiotapes_Summary page 01.doc 22.00 KB
/Donald Moine - Unlim Selling Power - Ocred.pdf 10.68 MB
/Donald Moine - What it Takes SuperSellers.pdf 6.39 MB
/Donald Moine_ OCR Unl Selling Power_manual.pdf 102.82 KB
/Donald Moine_Unl Selling Power_179 pages OCR.doc 1.01 MB
/Focus Directing Questions.doc 43.00 KB
/Gaining compliance_Gass&SeiterCh11.doc 114.50 KB
/Igor Ledochowski - Deep Trance Training - contents.pdf 2.38 MB
/Igor Ledochowski - Deep Trance Training Manual Vol 1.pdf 31.75 MB
/Igor Ledochowski - Street Hypnosis (Mentalism Course Notes).pdf 339.69 KB
/Igor Ledochowski - ad for Conversational_Hypnosis.pdf 282.86 KB
/James Prochaska Five Stages of Change_overview.txt 6.81 KB
/John Overdurf _Training Trances_summary.doc 34.50 KB
/John Overdurf and J Siverthorn - Training Trances_OCR.pdf 543.37 KB
/Kenrick Cleveland - Influencial Spinning.pdf 91.36 KB
/Kenrick Cleveland - Magical Objection Mastery.doc 368.50 KB
/Kenrick Cleveland - Magical Objection Mastery.pdf 613.12 KB
/Kenrick Cleveland - Max Persuasion 2000.pdf 190.31 KB
/Kenrick Cleveland - Sales Techniques (7 Pages).doc 69.00 KB
/Kenrick Cleveland - The Dark Side Manual.pdf 156.00 KB
/Kenrick Cleveland - The Dark Side Transcript.pdf 123.56 KB
/Kevin Hogan - 2.35 MB
/Kevin Hogan - The Psychology Of Pers How To Persuade Others.pdf 14.28 MB
/L Michael Hall - Mindlines.pdf 1.38 MB
/L Michael Hall - Sourcebook of Magic.pdf 1.14 MB
/L. Michael Hall - Mind-Lines - Lines for Changing Minds (2nd Edn).pdf 1.37 MB
/L. Michael Hall - MindLines Book_ summary on Reframing.doc 58.50 KB
/Larry McLauchlin - Adv Lang Patterns ,58.pdf 609.42 KB
/Larry McLauchlin_ Adv Lang Patterns Mastery (1).doc 434.50 KB
/Marshall Sylver - Hypnotic Selling manual.pdf 727.56 KB
/Maximum Influence The12 Universal Laws of Power Persuasion.pdf 1.67 MB
/Michael J. Brooks _Power Of Business Rapport.doc 50.00 KB
/Milton Erickson by Sidney Rosen - My Voice Will Go With You _The Teaching Tales Of .pdf 2.48 MB
/Milton Model and hypn patterns_Apr 2001.pdf 287.08 KB
/Milton Model misc notes_Apr 2001 (8).pdf 328.96 KB
/Milton NLP Model of Hypn.doc 55.00 KB
/Moine_1990_6 audiotapes.pdf 1.17 MB
/NLP Workbook -Joseph o'connor.pdf 21.31 MB
/NP WorkBook by Joseph O'connor Excellent OCR.pdf 1.95 MB
/Paul Mckenna - The Secret Language Of Influence - Manual.pdf 429.92 KB
/Qualifiers_Softeners phrases.doc 19.50 KB
/Ray Hyman _Cold Reading.doc 83.50 KB
/Rex Sykes - Ultimate Nlp Home Study Course.pdf 365.45 KB
/Robert B. Cialdini - Influence_ the 7 Compliance Triggers.doc 22.50 KB
/Robert Cialdini - Harnessing The Science Of Persuasion.pdf 996.32 KB
/Robert Cialdini - Influence - Science and Practice, 4th ed1.pdf 2.26 MB
/Robert Greene, The Art of Sed.pdf 3.20 MB
/Ross Jeffries - language patterns FlashCards.doc 60.00 KB
/Salad Consulting Ltd - Ericksonian Hypnosis Card Deck.pdf 535.87 KB
/Salad Consulting Ltd - Irresistible Influence Card Deck.pdf 698.24 KB
/Shelle R Charvet - Words that Change Minds - the L of Influence.pdf 6.80 MB
/Tad James - Ericksonian Manual.pdf 491.18 KB
/Tad James - Hypn - Deep Trance Phenomena Ocr.pdf 5.76 MB
/Tad James - Hypnosis Practitioner - Manual.pdf 233.40 KB
/Tad James - NLP Master Practitioner - Manual.doc 7.54 MB
/Tad James - NLP Master Practitioner - Manual.pdf 3.07 MB
/Tad James - NLP-Ericksonian Manual.pdf 487.67 KB
/Tom Hopkins_Official Guide to Success_summary.pdf 90.30 KB
/Zebu Milton_model_zebu cards_2007.pdf 655.79 KB
/Zebu The Hypn Language Card Game FlashCards.pdf 366.17 KB
/Zebu_52 cards_22pp (1992).pdf 5.44 MB
/Zebu_Robert Anue_ card deck.pdf 273.08 KB
/pdf hypn Kevin Hogan - Hypnosis.pdf 3.68 MB
/pua - Evil Pattern - The Door.rtf 4.37 KB
/pua - Forbidden Pattern - The Gemini.rtf 3.06 KB
/pua - Forbidden Pattern - The Shadow and The Rising Sun.rtf 3.43 KB
/pua - L Systems Routine Manual.pdf 1.98 MB
/pua - October Man pattern.rtf 5.05 KB
/pua - theGuruDev - Sed Lang Patterns (SS Quick Reference).pdf

Library of NLP []

Richard Bandler
- The Structure of Magic Volume I
- The Structure of Magic Volume II
- Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton H. Erickson Volume I
- Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton H. Erickson Volume II
- Tranceformations
- Frogs into Princes
- Reframing
- Using Your Brain for a Change
- The Insider's Guide to Submodalities
- Time for a Change
- Persuasion Engineering
- The Adventures of Anybody

Robert Dilts
- Beliefs
- Sleight of Mouth
- Visionary Leadership Skills
- Strategies of Genius Volume I (Aristotle, Holmes, Disney, Mozart)
- Strategies of Genius Volume II (Einstein)
- Strategies of Genius Volume III (Freud, Da Vinci, Tesla)

Milton Erickson
- The Complete Works
- Experiencing Hypnosis
- Hypnotherapy, an Exploratory Casebook
- Time Distortion in Hypnosis

John Grinder
- Turtles All the Way Down
- Whispering in the Wind

Michael Hall
- The User's Manual for the Brain
- Figuring Out People
- The Sourcebook of Magic
- The Spirit of NLP
- Mind Lines

Tad James
- Presenting Magically
- Timeline Therapy and the Basis of Personality
- Hypnosis, a Comprehensive Guide, Producing Deep Trance Phenomenon
- Introducing the Art and Science of Timeline Therapy
- Master Practitioner Manual

- Monsters and Magical Sticks
- NLP Workbook
- My Voice Will Go With You

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2009 09:46AM by The Anticult.

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James Arthur Ray - Megan Fredrickson, Director of Operations
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 31, 2009 10:57AM

A big player in all of this is Megan Fredrickson, Director of Operations for James Ray.

Megan Fredrickson appears to have been at the same seminar where Colleen Conaway died as well. []

Megan Fredrickson better wake up, and soon, before she gets hung out to dry by those trying to save their own skin.
Some of the senior staffers of these LGAT can be the worst, so aggressive, manipulative in their unquestioned support and blind obedience to the Guru.

There are some very omninous and distasteful postings on her Twitter page.
Lots of James Ray promotion, and manic giggles, manic photos...but no mention of the death of Colleen Conaway, one of her seminar participants.

They just try to pretend it never happened.


Megan Fredrickson Twitter []

Feeling immense gratitude and awe for one of the most life-transforming weekends of my life.
12:14 PM Jul 27th from txt

Appreciating the experience of stretching my comfort zone more than ever and seeing my intentions manifest at warp speed as a result.
9:47 AM Jul 26th from txt

My hair stylist asked me if I had "any last wishes?"... Should I be concerned?
6:02 PM Jul 21st from txt

"The end is never the end. A new challenge awaits... A new level of growth he must confront himself." - Common
9:44 PM Oct 7th from txt

RT @joshf: An amazing week in Sedona so far. Working with a fun and impeccable team to facilitate MAJOR breakthroughs for our participants!
4:36 PM Oct 7th from txt

What a night! I'm inspired and awed that 31 participants have already taken action to radically change their lives right NOW!
9:51 PM Oct 3rd from Twadget

RT @JamesARay [] - Megan my Director of Ops is ready for Spiritual Warrior! :)
8:03 PM Oct 2nd from txt

RT @JamesARay: The question is not if you're going to physically die--you are. The question is "How did you live?"
8:48 AM Oct 2nd from txt

Feeling so very grateful for an incredible, committed Dream Team who is passionate about helping us transform the planet this week!
8:40 PM Oct 1st from txt

Preparing mentally and emotionally for an an incredible event experience that will transform 60 lives forever: Spiritual Warrior.
10:29 AM Oct 1st from Twadget

I. Love. Sedona. Period.
4:30 PM Sep 30th from txt

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2009 11:00AM by The Anticult.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 31, 2009 10:48PM

Two new posts on New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans


Is the Robert Greene on the above list the same one who wrote the 48 Laws of Power?

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James Ray, Opening Black Bags: Hooks, Holes, and Damns, CORE BELIEFS
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 01, 2009 03:58AM

Cassandra Yorgey has updated more information from the worksheet from the James Ray seminar. This appears the be the new text.

QUOTE: “of loss of loved ones; during which you were betrayed, betrayed yourself, or you betrayed someone else; your most meaningful relationships, issues or behaviors related to things you wish to hide from others, where life promises were made; times, experiences, or events in which your identity of God was formed; religious rules and regulations, opinions of and/or relationships with money”. UNQUOTE

Just on a technical level, it would be better if Cassandra or whoever has the entire text of the worksheet, just post the entire text, with no omissions, even with the formatting.

Its a mistake to think parts of the worksheet are less relevant. As if this is the only worksheet, then every word is written carefully, and seeing the entire text in context, then it can be analyzed for various linguistic techniques. So lets try to get the entire unedited text posted.

That is not betraying anyone, as people have a RIGHT to know what they are being sold, and what is being done to their minds without their awareness. They try to keep this stuff secret on purpose.

The first part of the text posted, about sexual trauma was analyzed here.
"Opening Black Bags: Hooks, Holes, and Damns" (sexual trauma)

The new text above, is an expansion of the same.
What is James Ray doing?
Very simply he is eliciting and modifying people's CORE BELIEFS.

What subjects is he shooting for? He takes a shotgun approach, and shoots for everything:
--- death, love, betrayal, shame, secrecy, privacy, God religion, money...

He uses a technique that could very well have come from NLP, and perhaps even from the NLPer Robert Dilts and his work with BELIEFS, as can be seen in this torrent [] Robert Dilts also has a book CHANGING BELIEF SYTEMS WITH NLP.
There are many books and studies on how to change OTHERS belief systems, which have been taken and used by the seminar Gurus for them to change YOUR beliefs, without you knowing they are doing it. They call that elegant.

Look at how James Ray tries to elicit your beliefs about God.
Quote: "times, experiences, or events in which your identity of God was formed; religious rules and regulations,"

That is very powerful and loaded material, which James Ray COPIED from someone. James Ray wants to ELICIT your core beliefs around GOD and RELIGION, which form the bedrock of most people's consciousness. He carefully picks out the times, experiences, events, rules, related to forming those core beliefs. That is is extremely powerful as that is EXACTLY how your core beliefs are formed.

Then, once he opens the "belief bag", he starts to make changes and modifications of all sorts. At the most basic level, he is inserting James Ray into your core belief systems on many issues. Especially about God. Because once he opens up the Belief Bag, he then starts playing the James Ray Games, where Ray puts on white robes, plays God, and commands people to commit suicide.
That is not a parlor game.
Its to link and implant that all-powerful image of James Ray deep inside your core belief systems. And it can stay there for MANY YEARS or even for life, if done in an extreme "in vivo" experiential experience, which it is.

[] "Just did 11th hour interview w a survivor of the James Ray self-help sweat lodge. Says Ray dressed up as God & his team as "death angels."

The report was also about how people were carried to graves, and given mock burials, and other such "experiences".
Those extreme experiences are 1000% intentional, as they can modify beliefs for life in some cases.

This is why YEARS after an intense LGAT, you are still dealing with thoughts and images of the Guru and his/her methods. Its because they have inserted and "fused" themselves with your core beliefs, and your Identity.
Byron Katie does the same type of thing, fusing your concepts of God with images of her. That is why people are on their knees crying before her in parking lots.
Byron Katie Identity-Fusion []
Byron Katie "I have always known you, do you know me?" hypnotherapy []

Fortunately, there are counter-methods to get the Guru out of your mind.
IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever []

James Ray is also going deep into your CORE BELIEFS, and modifying them, and inserting himself in the core of your being and self and mind and core beliefs.

This may upset some NLPers and hypnotherapists, but it needs to be said.
The argument the hypnotist NLPers and others make is that they are changing your beliefs without your conscious knowledge to HELP YOU, as your conscious mind would just get in the way.
That is just not true. People have a 100% right to know every single change being made, and to only change things they want to change. To change your beliefs, its best to stick with LICENSED professionals, who are ethical, like a really good psychologist.
These NLP based techniques of belief-change are abused by many unlicensed salespeople to make money. That is reality. The things some of them do to people are truly horrible.
Don't let these quacks and greedy guru's mess with your belief systems, without your awareness.

James Ray has taken those techniques, and many others, and combined with his own pathological personality, has tried to take them as far as they can be taken.
There is all of the standard advanced persuasion that is quite well known to those in the field.
But there is the darker side too. Some people who learn all these skills, then get carried away with the power of it, and they consciously set out to literally take the influence to the maximum level, to control people as much as possible.
The evidence coming out shows that James Ray at some point started to cross-over from extreme influence into attempting maximum control of his people. Notice most of his senior staffers and Dream Team and "Death Angels" [] are people well-known to fit the demographic for targets of extreme influence and control.

So there is the entire spectrum of influence happening in the case of James Ray, going right from advanced sales techniques, right up into advanced influence of the LGAT seminars, and then even moving far past that, into the desire for the most absolutist forms of influence-control of others, that are known.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2009 04:10AM by The Anticult.

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James Ray, Megan Fredrickson, Director of Ops, PsyOps?
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 01, 2009 05:23AM

It looks like the "throwing others under the bus to save your own skin" has begun.

Amayra Hamilton, who owns Angel Valley with her husband, is pointing the finger at James Ray and his company for the water deprivation.

The same thing could easily happen to Megan Fredrickson, Director of Operations for James Ray, when they start blaming Megan Fredrickson, as she was the "Director of Ops" for the event.
Megan Fredrickson Twitter []
RT @JamesARay [] - Megan my Director of Ops is ready for Spiritual Warrior! :)
8:03 PM Oct 2nd from txt

Fascinating they use the word "Ops".
Search Google for the word: PsyOps

(Psychological Operations Psychological Warfare) which fits right in with the James Ray obsessive use of the term "Warrior", and the extreme psychological operations he is performing on people without their awareness.
James Ray PsyOps.

There is also report of missing jewellery.
Does James Ray do the same "detachment exercise" as Byron Katie, were you "detach" yourself from your expensive jewellery and hand it over to the Guru?

James Ray the Jewel Thief?
October 31, 2009 at 1:45 pm
One of the two lawsuits filed this week against James Ray accuses him of taking a watch and bracelet from one of his sweat lodge participants, then ignoring a request to return the items.

Sweat lodge survivor Sidney Spencer says she turned over her bobbles – valued at $10,000 – to Ray before entering the tent.

In her lawsuit, Spencer claims her attempts to retrieve the watch and bracelet since the October 8th tragedy have been met with silence on the part of Ray’s people.

Spencer also says she paid $30,000 up front for the Spritual Warrior retreat and other James Ray seminars which haven’t happened yet, and that she wants her money back. Again, silence on Ray’s part, according to Spencer’s attorney.

But this $40,000 request is just the tip of the iceberg as far as the lawsuit’s concerned. Spencer’s going for compensatory damages for lost wages due to her injuries (she still recovering from multiple organ failure, and neurological damage), as well as punitive damages to punish Ray and his people.

The Angel Valley Retreat and its owners are also mentioned as plaintiffs in the lawsuit.

So far, we can find no record of any response from James Ray’s attorneys, or his spin doctor, the so-called “Master of Disaster” Mark Fabiani.

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Re: James Ray, Byron Katie, jewellery, valuables, wedding rings,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 01, 2009 07:59AM

For those interested, here are a couple links about how Byron Katie PERMANENTLY receives as "Gifts" people's valuable jewellery, wedding rings, laptops, airline tickets...
at her 9 day LGAT seminar called The School For The Work.
Obviously, its just a way to extract more free money, and a deeper psychological attachment to the Guru.

There are a bunch of other posts in the Byron Katie thread about this.

"family members ....handed over near $100,000 worth of jewelry" []

"Some people gave their wedding rings, jewelry, identification, and plane tickets! []

BKI's offices are stacked with laptops that came to them through this 'Giving' exercise.

Byron Katie taking your Wedding Ring = transference []

Byron Katie and "The Work" Participant Reports []

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2009 08:00AM by The Anticult.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: CTEL ()
Date: November 01, 2009 10:19AM

Hello anticult, thanks for the info in your post, id like to give you an opinion of the subject

you have to know that a lot of it is really con artistry(is that even a word) :p

i personally dont see anything wrong with mirrorring somebody, pretending to be their best friends...

not to mention it does not work, and mirroring is automatic in any human being,

i also dont see the way that some people

i also perferably dont see people as "sociopaths" that seems to me as something judgemental, as if its negative to be a "sociopath", y myself have seen a couple of sociopaths that are quite friendly,

i dont think its good too judge them,

i also disagree with the way you see persuasion, its normal to persuade somebody

much of it is sensory depravasion, hypnosis as a whole doesnt work, there is a lot of junk outhere, nueroscience itself has a lot of garbage

i still dont get nlp.

how would that even work?

"when now" i dont get that..... how would that do any effect?

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 01, 2009 09:53PM

This was written earlier about how to tell whether a life coach is OK:


by the way, EVERY LEGIT person who works in any field of one-to-one consulting, like career consulting, says the #1 rule is to NEVER SIGN A "COACHING CONTRACT".

.....You pay a market rate, which for a top person might be the same as a psychologist, which can be up to around $150 an hr, which is generally covered by insurance.

You pay at the end of EACH SESSION.
You do NOT pay in advance.
You do NOT sign a contract.


New posts, starting yesterday, have been added to the Native American discussion venue, including a link to an article in a Canadian news article.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2009 09:57PM by corboy.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: taraverti ()
Date: November 02, 2009 12:53AM

This was written earlier about how to tell whether a life coach is OK:


by the way, EVERY LEGIT person who works in any field of one-to-one consulting, like career consulting, says the #1 rule is to NEVER SIGN A "COACHING CONTRACT".

.....You pay a market rate, which for a top person might be the same as a psychologist, which can be up to around $150 an hr, which is generally covered by insurance.

You pay at the end of EACH SESSION.
You do NOT pay in advance.
You do NOT sign a contract.


New posts, starting yesterday, have been added to the Native American discussion venue, including a link to an article in a Canadian news article.


First off, I would like to say, I've been following this thread from the beginning and I really appreciate the work done by this site. I wake up every morning hoping to see that James Ray has been arrested for murder.

I am a member of the NAFPS forum and post semi regularly there. I'm a decendent of Cherokee and Delaware Indians and am appalled at the fraud, and misuse and plain fabrication that goes on.

I've never been to any of the LGATs you describe here. I've always been sceptical about them. I have learned a great deal about them from reading here. Thank you for that.

I'm also a certified Life Coach, and this advice about how to tell if a life coach is ok, is not correct. The standard practice for Life Coaching is to charge a monthly fee, payable in advance, for a set number of coaching sessions, plus support between sessions as needed. If you rule out everyone who charges this way, you are eliminating the vast majority of coaches, one of whom might be the right one for you.

Plus since most legitimate coaches charge this way, what's left over might not be qualified to coach at all.

Contracts are also something many legitimate coaches use. They are usually short term and about structure for the coaching.

Therapists charge the way you describe. Coaches do not.

Here is my take on it:

To tell whether a life coach is ok, the first question to ask is are they certified by a school credentialed by the ICF, or have they completed the ICF credentialing process? Is the coach a member of ICF?

International Coach Federation

Coaching is not regulated by any government agency, anyone can claim to be a coach or offer coaching, but we are a self regulated profession. The ICF has a code of ethic which all it's members must agree to abide by, a committee which handles complaints about coaches, core competencies which the schools they credential and the coaches whom they certify must meet.

ICF Ethics and Regulation Page

Once you have assured yourself that the person you are assessing as a possible coach is on the up and up qualification wise, then it's about coach/client match. Virtually all coaches will do a free sample session to allow you to "feel them out" to see if their style suits you. And vice versa. During the sample session I would say, go with your gut, intuition, discernment, whatever you want to call it. If it doesn't feel right, don't hire that person. Keep looking. A sample session should be exactly that, a chance to see how that coach coaches, not a sales pitch.

And don't believe everyone who says they are a coach. It's the flavor of the moment right now, and there are no laws against hanging out your shingle with no training whatsoever. Dig a little deeper. I am willing to bet that James Ray has no coach training at all, in spite of his claim to have coached thousands.

Thanks again for the education you do here,

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