If it isn't too much to ask... can someone PLEEEZE... give some substantial FACTS that substantiate the otherwise malicious gossip that is promulgated here. ?

[Moderator note: Personal attacks against members of this message board is against the rules you agreed to before posting here. Your personal attacks have been deleted. Please post within the rules.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2010 10:54PM by rrmoderator.

Notanti>"Whoever calls the writtings of Samael Aun Weor Gnosticism"...

?

I didn't call the writings of SAW, "Gnosticism".

I am only asking for the most bare modicum of intellectual discipline here, Notanti.

If you are not up to the task just say so and I will move on. Otherwise... start providing substantial facts to back up the denigrating claims you make here.

Dear moderator, I did not make a personal attack. I made a negative characterization of writing style after TWO (2) separate attacks were made against my intelligence.

Why is it ok for some to make what you call 'attacks' but for others it is a violation?

TypicalSeeker:

You did personally attack a member of this message board, which is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

Last warning.

Further violation of the rules will result in being banned from this message board.

Post within the rules.

Again TypicalSeeker

"If you were looking for a "normal" life... WHY!? did you pursue Gnosticism?
(for years....?)"

If you were not using the term Gnosticism to refer to the Samael Aun Weor writing, in this case the Gnostic Movement, What were you referring to. I think it is pretty obvious that you are referring to Dragons time with the organization.

"I am only asking for the most bare modicum of intellectual discipline here, Notanti."

But there is no intellectual exercise taking place here. This a safe space for people to share their experiences to the degree which they feel comfortable. If possible further resources are provided. What you are dealing with are primary sources. The people who wrote here and stated something actually experienced what they wrote about.

"If it isn't too much to ask... can someone PLEEEZE... give some substantial FACTS that substantiate the otherwise malicious gossip that is promulgated here. ? "

Can you reference where a statement that you see as gossip has been made about the Gnostic Movement in this discussion so we can deal with that specific statement?

Why are you interested in the Gnostic Movement? I was pretty sure you came to Rick Ross with a general interest in the Samael Aun Weor writtings. We are still waiting for your response in the general discussion by the way, or is the Gnostic Movement that you are involved in and here to defend?

Notanti, when I said 'gnosticism' I meant gnosticism, as in the word, as it would found in the dictionary. Please try not to read more into my words than is simply there.

Actually I do not find this to be so much a "safe space for people to share their experiences" as it is for people to come and talk down a new religion without stating how or why they have a problem with it.

You ask where there is a statement that I see as gossip... if you check my prior posts you will see that I quote the statements that I challenge, exactly, and then I ask directly for something other than hand waving to back it up.

My interest in the gnostic Movement was the regular sort... just curious about the new Gnostic religious groups springing up all around these days. The 'cult' aspects of most of them are obvious but I am not one of those who is terrified of the word, 'cult'. I came here to see if there were any 'destructive' aspects to these groups. All I have seen is baseless whining and complaining. Five short months of taking a few classes and then to complain about emotional distress?! How? I asked did they lock you in a closet and try to brainwash you?... did they extract large sums of money from you?...

I have taken several of their classes over the course of more than a year and while I do see cult like aspects I see nothing like the destructive type issues that are mentioned here. People say things like, "oh, it was awful... I feel abused..." but no one says how. It does not make any sense. It just sounds like those who suffer chronic victimhood looking for a place to wallow in self pity for a while.

This particular thread about Pritchard really has not presented ANYTHING seriously negative about the man or the Gnostic Movement. So he says more than one sex partner in a year leads to cancer... so what? Big deal....

I really thought there might be more dirt on the whole sexual alchemy thing... now that is really one strange philosophy. Small cult... odd sex practice... hmmmm. I thought for sure some hanky panky would turn up...but there is nothing... no reports of sexual abuse or being taken advantage of. That alone speaks very positively of the Pritchard Movement.

No abuse, no mind control, no nuthin'...

So far the group looks pretty clean.

TypicalSeeker:

Labeling other posts as "hand waving," "gossip" and "whining" is the type of personal attack you have been warned about.

Be courteous or be banned from this message board.

To whom it may concern:

See [www.culteducation.com]

Here are some basic warning signs:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Actually TypicalSeeker I have no interest in gaining sympathy or complainning about my experience. If I share anything of a personal nature from my experience it is in a effort to help others.

It is interesting that you need to refer to my amount of time as 5 short months. You do not know how invovled I was. In fact my involvement was very heavy for the number of courses I had taken. I was already volunteering a good deal of my time and yes donating a significant amount of money.

During this time I had become friends with all the teachers of the centre. You can see that from the post where I was attacked by Jordan. I was also spending a lot of time in the online forums and I was heavily involved in the "practices". It was well understood that I knew things I was not yet supposed to know.


This whole experience was the result of a time of personal difficulty and weakness in my life. Since this experience I have taken a much stronger position agains fanaticism and the fundamentalist mindset in our society. This is one way I feel I can help fight this problem.

Soon I will go through the lists provided to show why I dissagree with your assessment that the Gnostic movement is pretty clean.

I would like to note something important to consider from what typical is writting. I know there are more exstudents, teachers and perhaps even ex members reading this forum. It is pretty clear that accounts from those with more experience and knowledge of The Gnostic Movement would be extremely helpful. Remember the confidentiality of this site.