Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
richiekgb
()
Date: December 08, 2010 12:07AM
You know what - I am rather glad my comment was deleted on less wrong - good reason for people not to post on there.
They don;t like people who have something to say (even agressive CXXts like me) about there pet interests.
Sure i went on there running my mouth off a bit and yes posting up messages when your a bit drunk is probably NOT the best way to
get your point across but I was intending to be Funny and wind up the cryonics fanatics. Round my neck of the woods (inner city London)
I get called a fxxkpipe at least a dozen times a day - and a lot worse. But you want to call your man that make sure you can back it up with some facts or your goping to get "tucked up"
I always hated less wrong anyway - bunch of soft bodied academic types all "discussing" what they think is best for the world and stabbing each other in the back in all sorts of clever "rational" ways.
Fact is most of them are too worried about their "karma" score than actually getting anything done - Its just another example of Web 2.0 bullshit being used to promote the con that is cryonics.
There is a big Pro-cryonics sentiment running through the site and it was no suprise to get heckled in MINUTES by good old Mark Plus, Luke Parrish and enoonsti!
I went to a Less Wrong "Talk" recently and after doing our heads in with game theory for an hour - Roko Mijik a so called AI scientist spent an hour telling us why
a Lifespan of a Billion Years was just around the corner and we had better invest in cryonic preservation - he also used NLP techniques to try and "program" the audience.
Fact is any scientist/doctor who spends there time "marketing" there own companies/interests and patents on forums is suspect.
Less wrong is just another web 2.0 walled garden which is persuing its own freaky transhuman agenda than actually promoting criitcal thinking.
Like Cold Filter I won't be posting there again - head against a brick wall comes to mind - I got better things to do with my energy than try and post on there in a way that appeals to the community - I am a wind up merchant though - love to get in peoples faces especially when they are calling a spade a fork and saying that if you can't see it you must be a retarded!
I work in Catering and let me tell you when you want to get something done - softly softly doesnt work - My post was mild compared to some of the stuff i say on a day to day basis!
They don;t like people who have something to say (even agressive CXXts like me) about there pet interests.
Sure i went on there running my mouth off a bit and yes posting up messages when your a bit drunk is probably NOT the best way to
get your point across but I was intending to be Funny and wind up the cryonics fanatics. Round my neck of the woods (inner city London)
I get called a fxxkpipe at least a dozen times a day - and a lot worse. But you want to call your man that make sure you can back it up with some facts or your goping to get "tucked up"
I always hated less wrong anyway - bunch of soft bodied academic types all "discussing" what they think is best for the world and stabbing each other in the back in all sorts of clever "rational" ways.
Fact is most of them are too worried about their "karma" score than actually getting anything done - Its just another example of Web 2.0 bullshit being used to promote the con that is cryonics.
There is a big Pro-cryonics sentiment running through the site and it was no suprise to get heckled in MINUTES by good old Mark Plus, Luke Parrish and enoonsti!
I went to a Less Wrong "Talk" recently and after doing our heads in with game theory for an hour - Roko Mijik a so called AI scientist spent an hour telling us why
a Lifespan of a Billion Years was just around the corner and we had better invest in cryonic preservation - he also used NLP techniques to try and "program" the audience.
Fact is any scientist/doctor who spends there time "marketing" there own companies/interests and patents on forums is suspect.
Less wrong is just another web 2.0 walled garden which is persuing its own freaky transhuman agenda than actually promoting criitcal thinking.
Like Cold Filter I won't be posting there again - head against a brick wall comes to mind - I got better things to do with my energy than try and post on there in a way that appeals to the community - I am a wind up merchant though - love to get in peoples faces especially when they are calling a spade a fork and saying that if you can't see it you must be a retarded!
I work in Catering and let me tell you when you want to get something done - softly softly doesnt work - My post was mild compared to some of the stuff i say on a day to day basis!
Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
enoonsti
()
Date: December 09, 2010 04:28AM
Quote
The Anticult
It looks like the patent information about Dr. Brian Wowk was deleted from Lesswrong. It shows a clear conflict of interest.
[lesswrong.com]
Anticult, you are more than welcome to post that information over at Less Wrong. Whoever deleted his post probably prefers that people provide the proper context in order for it to make sense. Here was Richie's original post in its entirety:
Quote
Richie
Couldn't resist
Long time lurker - why you even bother arguing with Cryonics people - they are a delusional cult, technophilliacs who barely understand what cryonics ACTUALLY IS but they are still selling it to others. Bwowk is one of the main guys in the cryogame who writes tonnes of litreture to twist up the heads of people with a 140 IQ and make them belive that they have made the right choice with cryonics. He has been doing it for years and years - Melody is not wrong about 1 million words.
"However, I have also stated, on an equal number of occasions, that I don't believe the scientists of the future will be able to repair the damage being inflicted on cryonicists, by a bunch of unqualified, overgrown adolescents, who want to play doctor with dead people, while pretending to be surgeons and perfusionists. "
Mel - Your too nice here:
Cryonics is freezing dead bodies for long term storage - THAT IS IT - Hell a scientist of the future may be able to repair all the damage using the old (ba) nana-tech - But they still won;t be able to make dead meat alive - never in a million years.
There is no chance for revival - NO CHANCE - Dead is Dead is DEAD - how do you bring a cadaver back to life? Magic, Electricity, strong nuclear force concentrated through a planck length wormhole? Please - I might be a unacademic chef who likes pretending to be a fake fembot who suffers with dyslexia - BUT i do read and i do understand basic science at the very least. Cryonics has about as much chance of working as REAL aliens being the cause of crop circles in wiltshire.
Bwowk is obviously a "fXXkpipe" a scientist who is only intererested in protecting his pet theories and making money from delusional idiots who are in love with there own egos. Bwowk made the decision LONG ago he would rather sell snake oil than persue a mediocre life examining test-tubes.
Thats right Brian I called you a Fuckpipe just like that so called doctor who reccomends euthanasia if cryonics victims show signs of life. We all know a FXXkpipe is a CXXt and who listens to cXXts - I sure don't.
Oh and by the way if you are also thinking of persuing litigation because your not big enough to take being called a fXXkpipe online - i made another 15p today - Give me your address and i will settle out of court and will even chuck in my toenails so you can experiment on them.
I don;t give two shXts if Bwowk has 23 years of cutting edge experience in cryobiology - he is still a lying FXXkpipe who is trying to protect his own interests. That is not scientific attitude thats simply salesmanship and not even a good job!
I have been accused of resorting to Tabloidism and Demonising people in my critisism of cryonics - So what - they are "demons" - Eucrio's David Styles has shown you that recently by admitting hes a Satanist and in a Vampire Cult! Other Cryonics people are also in/were in nefarious groups: Ben Best, George C Smith and Son, Erik Bourgesie, Ellen Clarke, Edgar Swank, Shannon Vyff, Mark Plus, David Pizer and of course last years marketing darling Amada Blevins (AKA Cryogirl). Anyone who has promoted or associated themselves with these people recently has made themselves look "really scientific" - well played.
I'm playing a game too - Im playing detectives who pretends to be a female robot to get people to tell me thier experiences about cryonics My Games much better than your game though because i don't have to invent "cargo-cult science artifacts" and try and rip people off by selling them with no garuntees.
They (cryoncists) are freaks, clever freaks i grant you but REAL scientists and Medical Experts? - no i do not think so. Bwowk may have degrees and stuff and have a job in science but that doesnt mean his stuff works. A REAL scientist wouldn't EVEN bother coming on here defending his stuff - He would be working on a better solution/theory. Bwowk obviously has too much time on his hands instead of improving hes trying to protect pet his interests - thats what a crank does.
Go Back to Work Brian and invent something good - instead of kissing Saul Kent's Ass (your main source of income i believe) and defending your other wacky freinds. Shit, Saul Kent is NO scientist hes just a Ex-Journalist who got lucky with a mailing list that made him his LEF millions. And as for SA - they are a bunch of incompetent fools who couldn't open a tin of beans let alone a dead body - no amount of arm waving by Bwowk is going to change that that.
I don;t care if you make fun of my swearing and bad english - In my line of work you don't need good written english skills - just because I am not the sharpest knife in the draw doesnt make me a idiot. I know when I am being sold snake-oil - And Cryonics is Snake oil - Bwowk would be better leaving defending SA to a public relations expert because he has made himself look like a CRANK.
Oh Yeah I know im a Crank - The National Enquirer of Cryonics a David Icke Character no doubt - But you know what I just don't care - Im not in it for the money/kudos like Bwowk. I'm in it for the reason that PEOPLE have been hurt (or worse) because of this and I CARE enough to do something about it. Some of the stuff going on Larry Johnson and Alan Kunzman have written about extensivley. Buy their books, educate yourselves and do some digging around for yourselves. Its not pretty I grant you - But unfortuanatly a nice little idea like cryonics has been turned into a weird scam/cult by people LIKE Bwowk and the other people i have been "exposing".
You think I wanted to do this? Hell no but for some reason it feels like the right thing to do. You people (less wrong) just pointlessly argue with the pro-cryonics people bunch of claques and shills - waste of Fricken time.
Get Cryonics properly regulated - BAN the marketing of "chance of revival", Prevent Laymen from pretending to do what medical people do and prevent extortionists making money out of dying people.
Then start experimenting on freezing things that are ALIVE so we can perfect cold sleep and travel to the stars!
:)
!jill - www.cryonicsfactsheet.co.uk
[www.patentgenius.com]
[www.wikipatents.com] nventor: Wowk; Brian Address: Corona, CA Patents:
6391224 - Polyvinyl alcohol compounds for inhibition of ice growth Polyvinyl alcohol and related compounds are provided that inhibit the freezing of water and water solutions. 6616858 - Prevention of ice nucleation by polyglycerol Linear polymers of glycerol can prevent or delay ice nucleation in a variety of contexts......
7278278 - Cryogenic storage system The present invention provides devices and methods for the cryogenic storage of biological material. Devices of the invention are useful for storing material at a cryogenic temperature. The devices include a temperature chamber defined by a thermally-conductive container and at least one layer of thermal insulation surrounding the thermally-conductive container.....
6395467 - Cryoprotectant solution containing dimethyl sulfoxide, an amide and ethylene glycol.....
6988370 - Cryogenic storage system with improved temperature control A cryogenic storage system for cryogenic storage using liquid refrigerant is provided. The cryogenic storage system includes first and second vacuum vessels, a vacuum source, a quantity of a liquid refrigerant, and at least one temperature control assembly.....
7299641 - Cryogenic storage system with improved temperature control A cryogenic storage system for cryogenic storage using liquid refrigerant is provided.....
6274303 - Method for rapid cooling and warming of biological materials A method of cooling and rewarming large organs and tissues at sub-zero temperatures is provided.....
5952168 - Method for vitrification of biological materials using alkoxylated compounds....
(originally posted by AC @ RR)
MODERATOR Bet you delete this... Be nice to be proved wrong - it doesnt say anywhere "though must not talk about science using colloquial speech" - Sure im aggressive but you want to meet a chef who isn't passionate?
I hope we all can agree that his post made very little sense. All I could make out of it was that he was angry. Hence, it was not surprising that it was deleted.
Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
richiekgb
()
Date: December 09, 2010 08:07AM
lol - It was funnier than I remembered
- If it doesnt make sense to you then i can explain the "street slang".
I am actually less embarressed - Its about time there was some more emotion involved instead of just pussy footing around.
I should get drunk more often - Im more honest about how I feel about things. I'm no academic - I don;t know
how to post in "the proper context" that would be acceptable to the Less Wrong Community. But it makes no-odds to me
these people are not who I am interested in impressing with my debating skills.
I just a regular guy who feels that Cryonics and the whole life extension meme is a bullshit rip off scam - and I want to do something about it
I am fed up of Cryonics Cranks getting patted on the back by so-called Academics by involving them in "scientific debate".
Lets not forget that the Puppet Master as AC dubbed him (Saul Kent) was a Science Journalist back in the day:
"Life Extension Foundation - The big boys Saul Kent and Bill Faloon selling dodgy life extension supplements for Baby Boomers. At war with the FDA and has been more than casually linked to the Cocaine Trade. Saul Kent who is one of Alcor's strongest supporters. Was a close associate of Pearson & Shaw, authors of the book "Life Extension". The Authors were flooded with mail as a result and they gave the mail to Saul Kent. Kent used that mail to create a mailing list for a new mail-order business he created for selling supplements: the Life Extension Foundation (LEF). Millions of dollars earned from LEF have not only helped build Alcor, but have created and supported a company doing cryobiological research (21st Century Medicine), a company doing anti-ischemia research (Critical Care Research), and a company developing the means to apply the research to standby and transport cryonics procedures (Suspended Animation, Inc).(ty Ben Best for the info)"
From my website but you can see where i pulled it from at: [www.benbest.com]
These people know how to play the media - they have been schooled by a master oppurtunist and journalist - Saul Kent.
I suppose next when they realise that smearing me with the old mad brush won't work it will be some other accusation prehaps some sex stuff!
Fact is - i am a bit insane - and proud of it - I come from a long line of eccentrics and political activists - I am British after all!
:)
- If it doesnt make sense to you then i can explain the "street slang".
I am actually less embarressed - Its about time there was some more emotion involved instead of just pussy footing around.
I should get drunk more often - Im more honest about how I feel about things. I'm no academic - I don;t know
how to post in "the proper context" that would be acceptable to the Less Wrong Community. But it makes no-odds to me
these people are not who I am interested in impressing with my debating skills.
I just a regular guy who feels that Cryonics and the whole life extension meme is a bullshit rip off scam - and I want to do something about it
I am fed up of Cryonics Cranks getting patted on the back by so-called Academics by involving them in "scientific debate".
Lets not forget that the Puppet Master as AC dubbed him (Saul Kent) was a Science Journalist back in the day:
"Life Extension Foundation - The big boys Saul Kent and Bill Faloon selling dodgy life extension supplements for Baby Boomers. At war with the FDA and has been more than casually linked to the Cocaine Trade. Saul Kent who is one of Alcor's strongest supporters. Was a close associate of Pearson & Shaw, authors of the book "Life Extension". The Authors were flooded with mail as a result and they gave the mail to Saul Kent. Kent used that mail to create a mailing list for a new mail-order business he created for selling supplements: the Life Extension Foundation (LEF). Millions of dollars earned from LEF have not only helped build Alcor, but have created and supported a company doing cryobiological research (21st Century Medicine), a company doing anti-ischemia research (Critical Care Research), and a company developing the means to apply the research to standby and transport cryonics procedures (Suspended Animation, Inc).(ty Ben Best for the info)"
From my website but you can see where i pulled it from at: [www.benbest.com]
These people know how to play the media - they have been schooled by a master oppurtunist and journalist - Saul Kent.
I suppose next when they realise that smearing me with the old mad brush won't work it will be some other accusation prehaps some sex stuff!
Fact is - i am a bit insane - and proud of it - I come from a long line of eccentrics and political activists - I am British after all!
:)
Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
richiekgb
()
Date: December 09, 2010 09:17AM
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
[groups.yahoo.com]
[www.sanguinarius.org]
[www.satannet.com]
[www.dailywingnut.com]
[vampirism.subject-expert.com]
[groups.yahoo.com]
[www.sanguinarius.org]
[www.satannet.com]
[www.dailywingnut.com]
[vampirism.subject-expert.com]
Cryonics, Dr. Brian Wowk, direct conflict of interest, shilling
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 09, 2010 07:53PM
Dr. Brian Wowk cannot be taken seriously intellectually or scientifically.
He is in a complete, total conflict of interest in terms of cryonics.
And that conflict of interest, has not be properly disclosed.
Any real scientist, first openly discloses their conflicts of interest.
Dr. Brian Wowk's internet postings, are mere salesmanship. Its akin to a "doctor" on a late night infomercial, saying that the electric thigh-gizmo will thin your Abs.
All these cryonics companies, promote their so-called vitrification soups. One can imagine, those don't come cheap.
How much do they sell for? How many thousands per corpse? How much?
And guess what? Brian Wowk is a holder of some of those patents! Imagine that. [forum.culteducation.com]
And he works for the company selling the snake-oil...um....solution.
And he was on the board of Alcor...and and and.
What a joke. That shows absolutely zero scientific credibility whatsoever, in terms of cryonics. That is being a salesman, now working on the internet.
Which cryonics companies are buying Brian Wowk's, or his associates, patented vitrification solutions? Which ones? How much? When?
That is the real question.
He's ultimately just selling his own products and services.
Another cryonics "white-coat" meant to bambooozle the public.
Like their fake cryonics "surgeons" in white coats, who may very well be breaking the law by trying to pass themselves off as a "surgeon".
Its called Shilling.
[en.wikipedia.org]
"A shill or plant is a person who helps another person or organization to sell goods or services without disclosing that he or she has a close relationship with the seller.
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity."
He is in a complete, total conflict of interest in terms of cryonics.
And that conflict of interest, has not be properly disclosed.
Any real scientist, first openly discloses their conflicts of interest.
Dr. Brian Wowk's internet postings, are mere salesmanship. Its akin to a "doctor" on a late night infomercial, saying that the electric thigh-gizmo will thin your Abs.
All these cryonics companies, promote their so-called vitrification soups. One can imagine, those don't come cheap.
How much do they sell for? How many thousands per corpse? How much?
And guess what? Brian Wowk is a holder of some of those patents! Imagine that. [forum.culteducation.com]
And he works for the company selling the snake-oil...um....solution.
And he was on the board of Alcor...and and and.
What a joke. That shows absolutely zero scientific credibility whatsoever, in terms of cryonics. That is being a salesman, now working on the internet.
Which cryonics companies are buying Brian Wowk's, or his associates, patented vitrification solutions? Which ones? How much? When?
That is the real question.
He's ultimately just selling his own products and services.
Another cryonics "white-coat" meant to bambooozle the public.
Like their fake cryonics "surgeons" in white coats, who may very well be breaking the law by trying to pass themselves off as a "surgeon".
Its called Shilling.
[en.wikipedia.org]
"A shill or plant is a person who helps another person or organization to sell goods or services without disclosing that he or she has a close relationship with the seller.
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity."
Cryonics, Mark Plus (un-advancedatheist) - hypothetical murder?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 09, 2010 08:18PM
And concerning Mark Plus (un-advancedatheist)
[forum.culteducation.com]
the proposed cryonics first-degree murder of a 10 year old child...is not a "hypothetical" that challenges "morality".
It would be murder. Pre-meditated murder of a child.
Hypothetical murder?
Sadly, this is not just academic, there have already been published reports of some elderly people getting "offed" by some cryonics believers, to get a "better" cryonics freezing.
Some cryonics cranks have even bragged about putting people down, after their brain "revived" on the cryonics table. (of course that is just more sales-BS to pitch their cryonics process).
And cryonics folks are big believers in euthanasia, and self-suicide, to get a "better" cryonics freezing.
So its not a big stretch for some cryonics fanatic to do this to a human child.
Cryonics believers have already done it to hundreds of helpless dogs.
Do children get hurt and even killed in various sects? Yes they do.
For example, in Christian Science, there have been many cases where children were denied medical treatment.
So another zany sect, with opposite beliefs, can make their children subject to some quack medical treatment of the sect.
Putting a human CHILD into a cryonics "experiment" is exactly the same thing, just in reverse.
If done as outlined above, its first degree murder of a child.
[forum.culteducation.com]
the proposed cryonics first-degree murder of a 10 year old child...is not a "hypothetical" that challenges "morality".
It would be murder. Pre-meditated murder of a child.
Hypothetical murder?
Sadly, this is not just academic, there have already been published reports of some elderly people getting "offed" by some cryonics believers, to get a "better" cryonics freezing.
Some cryonics cranks have even bragged about putting people down, after their brain "revived" on the cryonics table. (of course that is just more sales-BS to pitch their cryonics process).
And cryonics folks are big believers in euthanasia, and self-suicide, to get a "better" cryonics freezing.
So its not a big stretch for some cryonics fanatic to do this to a human child.
Cryonics believers have already done it to hundreds of helpless dogs.
Do children get hurt and even killed in various sects? Yes they do.
For example, in Christian Science, there have been many cases where children were denied medical treatment.
So another zany sect, with opposite beliefs, can make their children subject to some quack medical treatment of the sect.
Putting a human CHILD into a cryonics "experiment" is exactly the same thing, just in reverse.
If done as outlined above, its first degree murder of a child.
Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
richiekgb
()
Date: December 10, 2010 09:29AM
Interesting Posts on Cold Filter Regarding the Eucrio Scam
[www.network54.com]
"This concerns the general topic raised by Paul, including the legitimacy of Eucrio, which I and others consider very doubtful. Ben has now removed the Eucrio link from the Cryonics Institute web site.
Robert Ettinger"
"Wonderful, that's a fine start Robert.
Don't let's let it end there though happy.gif
Paul Micheals
This message has been edited by CF_Moderator on Dec 9, 2010 5:17 PM"
[www.network54.com]
"This concerns the general topic raised by Paul, including the legitimacy of Eucrio, which I and others consider very doubtful. Ben has now removed the Eucrio link from the Cryonics Institute web site.
Robert Ettinger"
"Wonderful, that's a fine start Robert.
Don't let's let it end there though happy.gif
Paul Micheals
This message has been edited by CF_Moderator on Dec 9, 2010 5:17 PM"
Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: December 10, 2010 04:18PM
Some good debating points in that discussion on Cold Filter:
'Your present solution allows companies to claim they are providing professionals to carry out cryonic procedures and then send out unqualified and inexperienced amateurs (not to mention Satanists and "vampires") without redress.'
and some hard reality:
'If you want to live in a world where people are unable to make decisions that affect you for good or bad, you're currently residing on the wrong planet.'
and a final word on the vampires and satanists posing as cryonics professionals, from a gamer, who is undoubtedly familiar with role-playing, can recognise a role-player and is aware of the pit-falls of confusing the role with the reality:
'Being a gamer, I have met some vampires and satanists in person.
They seem to me to be self absorbed and quite flaky. Which seems to help the game flow when your playing d&d. (a role playing game) Which is kinda my point, they are role playing. I've had satanists tell me to my face, the whole point of being a satanist, is to manipulate people,
or was that the vampire,...no the televangelist..oh well i guess it doesn't matter after all.'
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2010 04:20PM by Stoic.
'Your present solution allows companies to claim they are providing professionals to carry out cryonic procedures and then send out unqualified and inexperienced amateurs (not to mention Satanists and "vampires") without redress.'
and some hard reality:
'If you want to live in a world where people are unable to make decisions that affect you for good or bad, you're currently residing on the wrong planet.'
and a final word on the vampires and satanists posing as cryonics professionals, from a gamer, who is undoubtedly familiar with role-playing, can recognise a role-player and is aware of the pit-falls of confusing the role with the reality:
'Being a gamer, I have met some vampires and satanists in person.
They seem to me to be self absorbed and quite flaky. Which seems to help the game flow when your playing d&d. (a role playing game) Which is kinda my point, they are role playing. I've had satanists tell me to my face, the whole point of being a satanist, is to manipulate people,
or was that the vampire,...no the televangelist..oh well i guess it doesn't matter after all.'
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2010 04:20PM by Stoic.
Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
richiekgb
()
Date: December 10, 2010 05:59PM
[www.network54.com]
It's annoying to have to reiterate what I have already clearly stated, not to mention what should be obvious to anyone paying attention.
First of all, look at this from the Eucrio web site:
"EUCRIO employs a wide variety of professionals as contractors: including physicians, perfusionists, emergency medical technicians, engineers and scientists, throughout the European Union. EUCRIO has staff members ready to intervene across the European Union and all are ready to respond to clients at all times (24 hours a day, 7 days per week)."
On its face this is not credible. If they can back this up with clear documentary evidence, that would make a difference. I have seen no such evidence, and don't know anyone who has claimed to have seen it. Even Suspended Animation does not make claims such as made by Eucrio.
Maybe some of you readers here would like to ask Eucrio directly to provide explicit information, with documentation, on the names, affiliations,and qualifications of all of the alleged contractors, including the wording of the contracts and dates of execution. If this is provided, I will gladly stand you a beer.
And that would still leave the issue of David Styles, with close ties to Eucrio and to vampirism and Satanism. It ought to be instantly obvious that a public peception of CI as linked in any way to vampirism and Satanism would be a negative for the public relations of CI and of cryonics generally.
Trying to make this a civil rights issue is a red herring. We are not tryhing to tell anyone what they can or can't do. We are merely trying to protect ourselves against a reaction that is certain to be mainly negative if a connection is perceived between cryonics and vampirism/Satanism.
For now, at least, the link to Eucrio is off the CI web site, and I'm thankful for that.
Robert Ettinger
One thing you can't say about Robert Ettinger is that he is not genuine. He may have some funny idea's but he is deadly serious about cryonics and has devoted the majority of his life to it.
Never really been able to find anything dodgy about him except prehaps some of his weirder ideas in his books - but he just seems like a old hippy to me not a con artist.
It's annoying to have to reiterate what I have already clearly stated, not to mention what should be obvious to anyone paying attention.
First of all, look at this from the Eucrio web site:
"EUCRIO employs a wide variety of professionals as contractors: including physicians, perfusionists, emergency medical technicians, engineers and scientists, throughout the European Union. EUCRIO has staff members ready to intervene across the European Union and all are ready to respond to clients at all times (24 hours a day, 7 days per week)."
On its face this is not credible. If they can back this up with clear documentary evidence, that would make a difference. I have seen no such evidence, and don't know anyone who has claimed to have seen it. Even Suspended Animation does not make claims such as made by Eucrio.
Maybe some of you readers here would like to ask Eucrio directly to provide explicit information, with documentation, on the names, affiliations,and qualifications of all of the alleged contractors, including the wording of the contracts and dates of execution. If this is provided, I will gladly stand you a beer.
And that would still leave the issue of David Styles, with close ties to Eucrio and to vampirism and Satanism. It ought to be instantly obvious that a public peception of CI as linked in any way to vampirism and Satanism would be a negative for the public relations of CI and of cryonics generally.
Trying to make this a civil rights issue is a red herring. We are not tryhing to tell anyone what they can or can't do. We are merely trying to protect ourselves against a reaction that is certain to be mainly negative if a connection is perceived between cryonics and vampirism/Satanism.
For now, at least, the link to Eucrio is off the CI web site, and I'm thankful for that.
Robert Ettinger
One thing you can't say about Robert Ettinger is that he is not genuine. He may have some funny idea's but he is deadly serious about cryonics and has devoted the majority of his life to it.
Never really been able to find anything dodgy about him except prehaps some of his weirder ideas in his books - but he just seems like a old hippy to me not a con artist.
Re: Cryonics, Cult Movement or Ligit Science???
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: December 10, 2010 06:35PM
At least Robert Ettinger, about whom I know nothing and assumed had already 'de-animated', has the nous to suss out a liar when he sees the lie in print. He bases his assessment on what is credible and credibly demands evidence for the dubious claims before honouring them with belief.
Actually I did read up a bit about Ettinger, I have a fondness for crackpot futurists who often turn out to be at least on the right track when thinking creatively on our behalf, even if the subsequent implementation of their ideas goes awry or, as is often the case, is hijacked by some opportunist salesman keen to make a fast buck out of other peoples insecurities.
I wouldn't put Ettinger and Styles into the same category of character, and am anyway content to be wormfood myself one day.
Actually I did read up a bit about Ettinger, I have a fondness for crackpot futurists who often turn out to be at least on the right track when thinking creatively on our behalf, even if the subsequent implementation of their ideas goes awry or, as is often the case, is hijacked by some opportunist salesman keen to make a fast buck out of other peoples insecurities.
I wouldn't put Ettinger and Styles into the same category of character, and am anyway content to be wormfood myself one day.
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