This raises many serious questions.
(Steven B. Harris, M.D.) aka Steve Harris MD has set himself up as a spokesman for cryonics.
But as Steve Harris MD makes income from cryonics, then he needs to declare his income sources in cryonics, and conflicts of interest in full disclosure.
Where is that conflict of interest declaration listing the specific payments from various cryonics companies, and individuals and organizations?


This also points to the possible serious problems with the hopes of the Venturists and other cryonicists, who want to get the coroner out of the death of cryonics members, due to "religious objections". They want to handle the local deaths in their hoped for "Cryonicsville" themselves and with "friendly" local authorities. They have said that.
Obviously, if a MD who is paid by those cryonics companies is the one signing a death certificate without objective authorities checking things over, that is a recipe for abuses and conflicts of interest, if not simply errors and malpractice.

Quote
melmax
Harris and his family members get paid a lot of money, to work in cryonics. According to former Riverside County Coroner Investigator, Alan Kunzman, if someone asks Harris to sign a death certificate, he signs it, even if he knows information on it is incorrect.

Its also quite strange how some "believers" in cryonics intrepret direct blunt criticism of the serious problems in all aspects of "cryonics" as "hate".
As cryonicists know, all of the worlds top skeptics and scientists in the area, dismiss "cryonics" with a paragraph or a sentence, as there is nothing there by the standards of science.

And none of them even bother to wade into the financial schemes, and the ethical problems. Who is analyzing the misleading persuasion tactics being used by the cryonics companies?
Who is analyzing the tricky contracts and misleading sales materials, and playing to religious impulses of Immortailty?

Facts and analysis are obviously not hate, its about getting to the truth.

In a free country people have religious freedom to dispose of their bodily remains.
But that does not give them a free license to try to mislead and deceive the general public, and use manipulative religious emotion and sales and persuasion tactics about Immortality to sell their product.

There are a few decent articles and comments out there if one searches for:

cryonics skeptic
cryonics quackery

One thing that is very interesting, is that Skeptics always focus on the lack of science, or antiscience of cryonics, as they should.
But who is looking into the cryonics companies deceptive financial shenanigans?
Who is looking into the use of religious emotions of Immortality to market cryonics?
How about the misleading advertising that contradicts the fine print of the cryonics contracts?
What about the attacks and lawsuits on critics to try and silence them?
What about all the other issues that have nothing to do with freezing heads?

Who is going to look into all of those aspects of cryonics?

The comments by Ben Best below become almost hysterical, and not in the funny sense. An article written "for" a scientific journal? Why is it not published in a real journal like Science or Nature that demands peer-review and evidence?

Like the trained skeptics have said, charging large amounts of money for totally unproven "medical" processes is Quackery, a scam.
[www.skepdic.com] "A business based on little more than hope for developments that can be imagined by science is quackery."

define: quackery
Definitions of quackery on the Web:

medical practice and advice based on observation and experience in ignorance of scientific findings
charlatanism: the dishonesty of a charlatan
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Quackery is a derogatory term used to describe unproven or fraudulent medical practices. Random House Dictionary describes a "quack" as a "fraudulent or ignorant pretender to medical skill" or "a person who pretends, professionally or publicly, to have skill, knowledge, or qualifications he or ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quackery

The practice of fraudulent medicine, usually in order to make money or for ego gratification and power; health fraud; An instance of practicing fraudulent medicine
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quackery



Jill Lepore, American Chronicles, “The Iceman,” The New Yorker, January 25, 2010, p. 24
[www.newyorker.com]

February 5, 2010
Corpsicles in The New Yorker [ouroboros.wordpress.com]

Its interesting to watch how cryonics promoters, advocates and professional cryonics contract salespeople (like Ben Best) cannot bamboozle those trained in critical thinking and the scientific method. But Ben Best sure tries hard.

(thread on James Randi skeptic website)
What are your opinions on cryonic preservation? [forums.randi.org]


Rudi Hoffman, the supreme cryonics financial salesman, and cryonics marketing strategist and Chief Propagandist, even claims that James Randi was interested in cryonics? Does James Randi know that Rudi Hoffman was making that claim about him?

Rudi Hoffman also says that MILLIONS will want to sign up for cryonics, if it is marketed the way he says. As has been stated, these guys literally are trying to make BILLIONS of dollars in the cryonics game.

You see how Rudi and Alcor wanted to use Ted Williams as marketing propaganda?


___________qote excerpt______________________
[www.imminst.org]

Rudi Hoffman -- I also talked to James Randi, the ultimate skeptic debunker about cryonics in person near his 70th bday some years back. He was open to the idea, but has not done anything about it.

Rudi Hoffman -- "I have in my records a letter sent to ALCOR requesting a "freebie" suspension for a list of sci fi and scientific heavy hitters if they would "go public" with their decision."

Rudi Hoffman -- "ALCOR agreed, and CI would probably as well. We need a REAL scientist and thought leader, not just a Ted Williams."

Utnapishtim -- How many Big names do you feel it would take to really turn the tide and make cryonic suspensions osically acceptable
Utnapishtim -- I think Ted Williams could have been a huge coup if handled correctly
Rudi Hoffman -- A single one could be HUGE. Someone like "I'll be back" Schwartenegger could net us tens of thousands of folks. IMHO. What do you think?
Utnapishtim -- If arguably the greatest hitter in history had explained that he wanted to be cryonically suspended and why it would have been a huge boost
...
Utnapishtim -- I think what would really help is not neccessarily hollywood type but someone associated in the public eye with straight arrow noramlcy and good values
Utnapishtim -- Tom Brokaw or Dan Rathers for example
Rudi Hoffman -- Yes, If Ted would have handled this different, it could have been a bigger boost.
Utnapishtim -- Walther Cronkite
John_Ventureville -- Rudi, is work going forward to contact celebrities regarding free suspensions??
Rudi Hoffman -- Yes, Let's freeze Walther! "That's the way it is," lol
John_Ventureville -- Is this an ongoing project of yours/Alcor?
Rudi Hoffman -- Yes and no. I will need to get reapproval from current ALCOR leadership.
___________________________



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2010 02:28AM by The Anticult.

Quote
The Anticult
February 5, 2010
Corpsicles in The New Yorker [ouroboros.wordpress.com]

It's funny how ouroboros went from talking about technical issues (i.e. mushy corpses) to suddenly changing his tune and indirectly asking in the comment section "Why do we believe that future people would revive a preserved person from our era?" If the person truly is a "mushy corpse," then there would be no need to bring up such social issues (nevertheless, I answered it in the comment section). My guess is that he had a change of heart after reading this DepressedMetabolism response: [www.depressedmetabolism.com] (By the way, check out the books recommended at DepressedMetabolism, a blog for cryonics cult members. They don't even bother recommending The Singularity is Near, but instead link to far more cultish material like Soft Machines, The Black Swan, and The Healthy Skeptic)


Well anyways, let me stress that I like Chris (ouroboros), because he also happens to have a sense of humor (which quickly becomes apparent in his About section). I just wish he'd spend more time on this issue.

Finance Department of the cryonics cult forum Cold Filter states his opinion about the Cult Education Forum.

Quote
Finance Department
I suppose I could try doing that on the Cult Myth-Education Forum, but I'm sure my post would not be approved, as the "Anti-Cult" and his lieutenants appear to be the only ones allowed to spew flames there. I guess they do it for the kicks, as I cannot fathom any sponsorship, purpose or other reason for the nearly-unknown site's existence. It certainly poses no threat to cryonics, nor for that matter to any other types of organizations that actually might deserve to be labelled cultish, so I continue to believe cryonicists should not reinforce its existence by continuing to post there.

[www.network54.com]

CryoGirl has been banned from this message board.

Quote
rrmoderator
CryoGirl has been banned from this message board.

Thanks rrmoderator, she was irritating and obviously brainwashed.

The comment by "Finance Department" is strange, but not surprising. The common tactic is to tell true believers to bury their head in the sand, and don't look at the main behind the curtain, like in the Wizard of Oz.

This type of website is not about being a "threat" to cryonics.
Its not about "hate" or being an "enemy of cryonics".

Those terms in themselves point to the seige mentality of some of the cryonics True Believers.
Contrary to what he said, these types of threads, posted by dozens and hundreds of people have helped probably thousands of people see past the propaganda and lies from various sects.
Like James Arthur Ray was exposed YEARS before people were killed, and Byron Katie, SGI, Royal Way, Landmark, and dozens of others in various areas.

Its not about being a threat to "cryonics".
Which "cryonics"? The frozen bodies, or the financial and legal aspects? Those are completely different things.

These threads are about trying to look at the FACTS without rose-colored Sci-Fi Matrix glasses, and to also cut-through the very sophisticated financial shenanigans being done by sophisticated financial salesmen like Rudi Hoffman, and others. Those are some very clever people.
One gets the real sense that Rudi Hoffman, for example, does not even care if "cryonics" is anything other than a financial product for him to sell, to collect his commissions. Its a win/win for Rudi.
They can make a lot of money signing people into those irrevocable trusts, and other complex financial instruments.

The cryonics salesmen know that the Skeptics aren't buying it, and the Transhumanists aren't buying either.

So they want to go after the naive general public using deception and religious impulses to Immortality.
And also go after the Boomer Anti-Aging crowd, the kind of aging Boomers who spend thousands on pills and potions to try to stay young.
That is the demographic of the Life Extension Foundation and Saul Kent . [www.lef.org]

Those are not stupid people, they know what they are doing, and they know how to SELL, and think big. And they are applying their knowledge of advanced sales to cryonics. They have said they WANT to sell millions of contracts, they want to move into billions of dollars.

So of course, those who are into the cryonics sales gravy-train would try to dissuade anyone from analyzing the financial persuasion tricks being used by the cryonics salesmen.
The so-called entry level "insurance plan" of $40 a month, is a bait and switch, its only the beginning. Once they get that, then they upsell into all kinds of other plans, using psychological persuasion FEAR tactics on people, to pay in advance, and sign irrevobable trusts, power of attorney, and all the other problems in this thread.

If anything, its time for the attorneys general and the FTC to have a look at these cryonics advertising practices, where they are claiming you can be Ressurected by cryonics someday, and have access to the financial "trust" they have set-up.
That is false advertising, and could be illegal, if it was reviewed.

But not, they don't want cryonics customers to think about the facts of reality and the financial persuasion tactics being used on them, they want them to dream about travelling to the stars in spaceships and living forever.
Then to sign an irrevocable trust, they can never get out of.

Alcor [www.network54.com] is using the tactic of "media-chill" as used by groups like:

NXIVM "experienced yet another legal defeat in its ongoing effort to end criticism of the company on the Internet" [www.cultnews.com]
Landmark [www.culteducation.com]
Scientology, SGI, and countless other groups/sects who attack critics with everything in their well-financed arsenal to try and silence analysis of the company, and control what can be said about the group.

They are literally throwing everything they can think of, trying to make any of it stick.
Like NXIVM was, they are trying to block use of anything for use in journalism, including suppression of the book
Frozen: My Journey into the World of Cryonics, Deception, and Death Larry Johnson (Author) Scott Baldyga (Author)
[www.amazon.com]
(better get the book while its hot, also local libraries can order a book using the local libraries request form, where they will usually buy a number of the books for the library system)

This is a similar pattern to the endless attacks on the media companies and individuals by these types of groups. They go after individuals that speak-out, to try to "make an example" of them.
They know an individual cannot defend stand-up against that kind of onslaught, and so they force them to settle under a gag-order, just out of survival.
Its a warning to others, a form of psychological warfare to scare individuals into silence. It worked very well for Scientology, until very recently.
But some are able to stand up to the attacks by getting help.

Landmark and the Internet Archive | Electronic Frontier Foundation [www.eff.org]


Alcor knows if they can succeed in silencing any whistle-blowers or any substantial critics, then the media editors won't publish critical articles of the company, as the company makes it too much hassle for the media editors.
Landmark is the worlds expert in that method. They systematically hassle every media outlet that publishes anything about Landmark, as they know most media editors will just want to avoid the hassle in the future.

This is clearly what Alcor is gunning for, to end and control criticism of the company in the media, and to make certain all insiders are signed to gag-orders, so no one knows what is going on.
Something like the Vatican, as apparently Alcor is modelled after the organization of Roman Catholic Church.

QUOTE: SteveHarrisMD "Organizations doing well in saving for the future are not democratic (China). And consider the very non-democratic and closed Roman Catholic Church. Which was the model for Alcor, simply because it is the probably the longest continuous self-perpetuating institution known to history."

For whistle-blowers, there is still Wikileaks [wikileaks.org] (Publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2010 06:00AM by The Anticult.