Daryll Thomas of Desteni's video "05 The Anti-Desteni Cult Hotline Moment" -- [www.youtube.com] -- is supposed to be a satire about discussion of Desteni on this forum, which he re-names "Cult Infotainment Forum".

It creates the impression that the Cult Education Forum is over-run by Bible-bashing Christian fundamentalists. Daryll Thomas made that assumption early on in this thread, as did Bernard Poolman who was informed that the Cult Education Forum is an educational nonprofit organization, not a religious one.

No contributor to this thread has criticized Desteni in terms of it being Satanic or un-Christian. If anyone is a Christian they have not referred to their beliefs even once to justify what they've had to say. No-one has expressed any religious view at all that contends Desteni is evil but if you hadn't read this thread and watched Daryll's video there you would think they had.

I wouldn't bother pointing it out to him on his YouTube channel because he'd just ban me.

In "Process Support - Desteni Hate Videos" -- [www.youtube.com] -- Bernard Poolman suggests that YouTube videos criticizing Desteni are spreading hate speech and his followers should flag them. In which case, there are countless Desteni videos that can be flagged on the same grounds.

He suggests those who oppose Desteni are consumed by it and actually supporting the cause because they are ensuring that people who aren't fully committed won't join, which is useful to Desteni: "Process Support - Grateful to those that Oppose Desteni" -- [www.youtube.com]

Just because some people research a cult and criticize it does not mean they are consumed by the activity. Information put out by those who oppose it could quite possibly lead to a situation where no-one joins Desteni anymore and those left will only be the most fanatical and deluded.

Poolman gives more advice to his followers in "Process Support - Sharpen your Wits with Attackers" -- [www.youtube.com] -- to the effect that critics of Desteni make points that are only ever personal and don't deal with principles, they are "deceivers" and if they can't be converted they must not be listened to; just ban them.

Nearly all the main points made in this thread are in terms of the principles involved which show how Desteni functions as a potentially dangerous cult. They are based on established facts to do with the social reality of cults, far less theories, opinions or personal judgements.

Its policy on YouTube of banning those who question the cult is having the effect of inspiring video responses; more bad publicity for Desteni. Poolman may say that bad publicity is better than none at all, but when bad publicity is the only sort there is, then better none at all, and Poolman and his protege, Sunette Spies have put out far more bad publicity for Desteni than anyone else ever could.

So, more predictable cult tactics from Poolman and co: make up some stories about why those who criticize your cult can't see the "truth", label them as persecutors, ignore what they say and try to have them censored instead.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2010 07:17PM by Sandman.

Recent statements by Bernard Poolman indicate he believes he is engaged in an 'information war'.

It seems that for him the point of it is to generate publicity for Desteni, court controversy and get rid of those who would waste his time joining the cult without fully meeting his ludicrous demands.

He knows that by keeping his followers focussed on banning and censoring other people rather than taking part in free discussion it will train them to disregard opposing views to Desteni.

See 'Suggested ban': [desteni.co.za]

It gets them used to demonizing everything outside the Desteni doctrine, regarding all other views as 'deception' or 'abuse'. It's a form of indoctrination.

People respond to being banned or having their videos flagged by Desteni members by putting out their own statements. These responses are increasing every day with new videos being uploaded to YouTube questioning, opposing and ridiculing Desteni. For example:

Questioning Desteni (1) DONATIONS ,- a video by Freedombreeze1
[www.youtube.com]
desteni verses reality
[www.youtube.com]
RE Free Speech is Deliberate Deception (Reloaded)
[www.youtube.com]
Be Bald - Be Trendy
[www.youtube.com]
Desteniproductions
[www.youtube.com]

For Poolman this serves two purposes: so he can con his followers into imagining that people are resisting Desteni because he says it is revolutionary and at the cutting edge of social change, and as criticisms of his cult become more widespread he can be sure that no-one tries to get involved in it who hasn't been totally sucked in by his propaganda.

Anyone considering Desteni should be aware that the Desteni 'Equal Money' campaign is not as it purports to be, a political movement to save the world from poverty and starvation. It is a recruitment drive for Desteni.

'Equal Money' as an actual political concept won't work not least because no-one in the political or economic fields would take the likes of Poolman and his cult seriously. The average person in the street would not take them seriously, just as lawyers have in fact already refused to represent Desteni. Why? Er, because it's obviously a cult.

The 'Equal Money' gimmick serves to bring more free labour to the Desteni farm in South Africa and more buyers of Poolman's fake 'educational' courses. It's a way of making money for him and his inner circle as his followers advertize the Desteni business without being paid.

Bernard Poolman's perceived 'information war' is about constructing an artificial 'us and them' situation where he can say his cult is being persecuted, promote his loopy ideology as the ultimate salvation for all humankind, get more people to work for him for nothing and get the cash flow going.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2010 05:20PM by Sandman.

The rumors are true it appears. They are wanting to expand their organisation to a second farm.
Here is the link, started July 7th --> hXXp://desteni.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=116&t=17661

My channel: XmanosX [www.youtube.com] has been taken down by Youtube through Desteni members claiming copyright violation. I would easily be able to dispute most of their claims in court. However, to do a counter-notification requires that I fill out a form with personal information including address which is then handed over to cult members. I don't how anyone else would feel about handing over such information to cult members, but I don't think it is in the best interest of the welfare of my loved ones. I feel Desteni will continue to silence others on similar grounds on Youtube.

Hi Thom,

It may seem grim but it means they really see you as a threat, what you are doing in your videos.

>> I feel Desteni will continue to silence others on similar grounds on Youtube.
If they are successful with you then they may indeed.

Can you provide a copy of the grounds that they have used to get your channel closed?
Also, did Youtube provide a list of member names who claimed the copright violation and specify what content was copyrighted? (i.e. desteni content or third party content)

Cit

Quote
ThomDarc
My channel: XmanosX [www.youtube.com] has been taken down by Youtube through Desteni members claiming copyright violation. I would easily be able to dispute most of their claims in court. However, to do a counter-notification requires that I fill out a form with personal information including address which is then handed over to cult members. I don't how anyone else would feel about handing over such information to cult members, but I don't think it is in the best interest of the welfare of my loved ones. I feel Desteni will continue to silence others on similar grounds on Youtube.

You were doing a great job of exposing the Desteni cult for what it is in your videos, clearly without violating copyright, but I can understand why you wouldn't want to pursue the issue.

Numerous videos from DesteniProductions on YouTube and their countless satellite channels are violating copyright. They use countless copyrighted images and music without permission. They are also taking advantage of the YouTube community by creating repetitive content on tens of different channels and using sub4sub to increase views. Much of their content can also be classed as offensive.

Here's some info from someone who's encountered Desteni on YouTube, Facebook and elsewhere:

"Tactics I witnessed:

- Group-bashing:

Desteni monitors all their members actions on Youtube to enable their followers to appear in large groups on comment sections and display seeming superiority. They also tried the same thing on the Cult Education Forum.

This tactic includes mass flagging, mass commenting and mass rating to intimidate certain individuals opposing and deceive the public.

They also invade other public spaces then YT, like Facebook, Myspace and they tried to silence the Cult Education Forum by mass infiltration.


- Sockpuppet accounts:

The average Desteni member has at least four different accounts: one using the 'real' name to appear honest and trustworthy, one official second account mostly concerning a random non-Desteni-related hobby or interest, and at least two accounts mainly for the use of harassing people who blocked them, sub4sub and mass rating.

On several occasions I have seen people showing that they have over 6 different accounts.


- Comment-and-block:

A tactic everyone who made the mistake to attempt to have a real discussion with one of them is probably aquainted with. They allow one or two comments to a comment they made or a video they posted, reply to it, and then either block you to prevent you from commenting or block you and delete your last comment - to make it appear they had the last word and convinced you of their opinion.


- Copyright-claims:

XmanosX's account got closed yesterday because of copyright-claims. Why Desteni decided to do that after members posting videos about 'letting it go' and comments saying that he was truly supporting the Desteni message and helping to spread it is not difficult to understand.

They were also eager to sue a man who got hands on the SRA material and sold it for a cheaper price."

Quote
Citizendc
Hi Thom,

It may seem grim but it means they really see you as a threat, what you are doing in your videos.

>> I feel Desteni will continue to silence others on similar grounds on Youtube.
If they are successful with you then they may indeed.

Can you provide a copy of the grounds that they have used to get your channel closed?
Also, did Youtube provide a list of member names who claimed the copright violation and specify what content was copyrighted? (i.e. desteni content or third party content)

Cit

Back up: [www.youtube.com]

These are the ground for the first two strikes: [i457.photobucket.com]

I don't know about the third as google also suspended my gmail account.

Ex-SRA student's Anti-Desteni youtube channel.

[www.youtube.com]

The SRA lesson 1 video was 'threatened' through a private Desteni message, in-which replies were blocked.
It's been edited into something completely [MINE] pardon 'the SRA knowledge'.
They decided to add that little detail after a channel comment, in-which I replied [as can be seen on the channel's comments],
knowing they'd apparently receive it, as such-

Absolute bull, I'd love to see a 'university' class attempt to pull that off. Your true colors of greed entertain me,
and I will not be taken in by 'threats', I paid to learn something and I'm sharing my interpretation of it. Absolutely no case.

[www.youtube.com] - Desteni Inconsistencies - Impure Suggestion
[www.youtube.com] - Desteni - Another false portrait of self
[www.youtube.com] - Desteni is Anti Desteni
[www.youtube.com] - Desteni Quick Rant 01 - Root & Time
[www.youtube.com] - SRA - CASH COW & Ex Student's Experience

We'll see about the SRA lessons.
Danke,
Cresil

Quote

Back up: [www.youtube.com]
These are the ground for the first two strikes: [i457.photobucket.com]
I don't know about the third as google also suspended my gmail account.

Hi Thom, its good to see you back on YT.

>> These are the ground for the first two strikes

Thanks for posting this.
The first strikes are from the creators of Desteni Education.
The second appears to be a pro-active desteni member.

I did a bit of research into how the YouTube copyright claims and DMCA's are handled, along with how false claims are being mis-used.

YouTube - My video's where removed
When we are notified by an authorized representative of the copyright holder that a particular video uploaded to our site infringes another's copyright, we respond promptly, as the law requires.
-IOW, they dont verify if the claim is correct, they simply respond by taking down the video.
-Only the copyright owner (or agent) can file a complaint to YouTube. Naturally if a false claim is made, there can be repercussions.

YouTube - I made the video; I'm in it!
It may seem confusing when a video you produced yourself is removed for copyright violation.
Take a second to consider everything that you put in the video. Was there a song? Footage from a movie, TV show, videogame or other YouTube video?
If so, you may be infringing someone's copyright.
-Again, what YT is saying is that they don’t get too involved, they are the middle man. Its up to the accused and plaintive to file the necessary documents or settle the dispute in court.

YouTube - Falsely accused of copyright infringement
If you believe your content was misidentified as infringing, you may file a counter-notification. If you did not have all of the rights to post the material at issue, you MUST NOT submit a counter-notification.
- So you need to be 100% sure before submitting your counter notification.

YouTube - Fair Use
Unfortunately we cannot make a determination whether your video qualifies as fair use. If you disagree with a copyright takedown notice that you have received, you may file a counter-notification. However, we cannot offer you legal advice in these matters. If you have questions about your situation, we suggest you consult legal counsel.
- Using the fair use act to post copyrighted material is quite involved. For a better understanding read this which explains quite a bit.

How false copyright claims are being Misused:

Quote

As many of you are painfully aware, there are a vast number of false DMCA claims being circulated on YouTube lately.
Many of these claims brought down many partner channels, and are a real pain in the *ss.

Well, this is a two pronged problem.
One is many of these false claims are just to bring the channel down. Just to bust beans. This is now the fad in the Black Hat circles on the web.
But the SECOND problem is even more ominous than this. They purposely use the DMCA claim system to get your information (name, address, phone number).

source: Here

Cit.

Wow. My name is Ferdi Poolman. Bernard Poolman is my brother. We have not spoken for many years. Do I love him? Yes. Do I like him? No
I want to set the record straight. The reading and language program was designed by me and a team of people of which most of them are still working for me. No person at this Destiny thing ever worked on it. My brother's total input was less then ten words. The product was stolen by my brother. We were four people that made a deal. Myself, two of my current employees and my brother. My brother would sell the product and we will own and develop it. As what his history shows, not being able to work with money, things went sour. We went our separate ways.
It pisses me off that people will take credit for other people's hard work.
I have been silent long enough. I was hoping that one day his eyes will open. It seems that is not the case.
I am not english but I will do my best to make myself understood.