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Re: Desteni
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 24, 2010 01:55PM

Poolman seems like a classic Narcissist and such people are incapable of "belief" because they work entirely at the level of manipulation. If they are not manipulating others, they are not "alive" in some sense.

There are lots of ways to cope with bankruptcy (which some posts above suggest might be part of Poolman's problem) as well as with loneliness, defeat, & all of life's problems. Most people to indulge for a little while in some self-pity in which they might gather a few friends to tell them the world has indeed, been unfair when these things happen. But for most people that doesn't last long and they either get back to work in some obscure job or career and try to recover and also find a few new friends after the others got sick of the pity-party, or they sink into drunken depression and terminal loser-hood. Sometimes they find a cause and change their life, but all of these responses to life's little kicks in the butt are based in the ability to FEEL bad about oneself and one's situation. Even if it seems less than healthy to wallow in self-pity, such wallowing at least admits to the reality that a single human being is pretty weak compared to the rest of the world. And also is not responsible for all the evil of the world.

The Narcissist seems to simultaneaously avoid responsibilty for any evil at the same time as he grossly exagerates it for his followers, making them feel somehow responsible for everything bad.

A narcissist cannot seem to feel bad about anything, although they do seem to be able to express a lot of anger. Yet look at how Poolman expresses anger: he talks about all this terrible stuff but in a soft voice. His minions express a lot of frustrated angst as they describe humanity's crimes, almost as if they are trying to compensate for his calmness in the face of all this evil of the world. The only picture of Poolman that has been posted shows an almost comically angry face. If I saw that photo without knowing of the desteni cult, I would think it was someone mugging for the camera.

What if we made little videos that talk about these kinds of emotional dynamics? Does anyone think that this would help the destenites break free of this man's psychotic hold on them?

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: ThomDarc ()
Date: June 25, 2010 10:57AM

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The Anticult
If someone locally can do a search and find out the REAL names of Bernard Poolman and his wife, and if it turns out they are using fake names, their hypocrisy and lies will be even more ridiculous.
[jozien-onenessandequality.blogspot.com]
Here is an absurd "article" supposedly written by this person.



Here is the key.
Who owns the property of the Desteni Farm?
Someone locally could go into the land-deed office and see the name on the property deed.

Along the same line, a friend of mine was wondering about the backgrounds of close associates and inner circle members. For instance, Andrea Rossouw in one her vids stated that she worked as a volunteer for the police department. Would any of these records be available to the public? Could it be verified that she did indeed work with the police? The checking I did only revealed the following:

[www.capeargus.co.za]

[www.news24.com]

Of course, this could be another girl with the same name but I would imagine that medical records would verify that. These news articles (dated around 2003 and 2004) reveal that Andrea was a university student. I don't recall her mentioning that detail in her videos on how she came to be in Desteni. I'm not certain, but the University of Stellenbosch doesn't seem like a place that would accept such a girl like Andrea with a troubled history and financial issues. Could it be that Andrea comes from a more wealthy and privileged background than one of an angst-ridden poor girl who left high school? At this point it is hard to tell. However, it should be noted that since Desteni has propensity for lying, it would not came as a big surprise that Andrea's background is entirely artificial in order to appeal to a certain demographic. This actual dishonesty would be excused under the grounds of what is best for all.

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Re: Desteni, did Bernard Poolman go bankrupt in 2008?
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: June 26, 2010 06:39PM

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The Anticult
Another thing to keep in mind, is that there is no evidence at all, that Bernard Poolman believes his own bullshit about Atlantis, lizards, or anything else.
As a matter of fact, since BP teaches his followers that to believe is to beLIEve, the evidence points to Bernard Poolman NOT believing his own ridiculous belief-systems he is selling to others.

He claims that "The Dimensions are No More" -- [www.youtube.com]. That'll be because he "cleaned up Heaven" and got the "soul construct" deleted.

In "Why is Desteni doing what Desteni’s doing? 26 February 2009" -- [desteni.co.za] there is the statement,

"Approaching researchers and universities to research the Portal
We have approached them with and ask for researchers to consider doing research and no-one, not even the most prolific parapsychologists in the world or departments that do research in this has come forward with any point, any suggestion.
One university did come back and say “What we have does not fall within the description of their research”. I mean, that’s obvious it can’t because there is no such description."

Did Bernard Poolman seriously think that parapsychologists or academics would agree to carry out a scientific or even a pseudoscientific investigation of the possible psychic powers of a girl who says she's "portalling" anyone from Swami Praphupada to Anton La Vey to Audrey Hepburn to Osho to Jimi Hendrix to Steve Irwin to Sumerian gods to a dog to inanimate objects like a piece of toilet paper, a price tag or a vibrator?

No, there weren't ever going to be enough suckers falling for that nonsense, so even though the whole Desteni project is based on information that is said to be from "dimensions" Poolman decided that "the dimensions are no more". Now the emphasis is on about how having a shaved head on YouTube will help money become "equal".

He claims that "equal money" will inevitably be the economic world standard in the near future, but at the same time, everyone in Desteni will have rid themselves of their thoughts, feelings or emotions, because that is the ultimate aim of Desteni. It is all so preposterous, he can't possibly think any of it is truthful or credible, but that's not the point. He will say whatever he feels is necessary to run a functioning cult, because that's what he does believe in, his potential as a cult leader.

In the latest spate of unlisted YouTube videos or rather audio recordings by Poolman, he drones on in a nonsensical, inconsequential manner, every now and then repeating the phrase, "one plus one equals two", which he reckons is a mathematical formula for equality. Most of these talks -- listed here: [desteni.co.za] -- are gobbledegook but there are some sentiments about a seeming potential radical transformation and a more fair economic system, which would provide an air of plausibility for whomever might be naive or susceptible enough.

In "Process Support - Upload Yourself into the Universal Unconscious Mind" -- [www.youtube.com] -- he describes how Desteni supporters with shaved heads on YouTube are a "living advert for equality", and "if you do your eyebrows, that would be so cool because then you'll get all the alien buddies as well, cause you'll look like an alien and then the whole alien thing can be confirmed as the living alien that has arrived on earth at last".

In "Real Change in the Doll House of the Program" -- [www.youtube.com] -- Poolman suggests: "Please realize if you are doing self-forgiveness self-honestly in common sense and you are not changing in terms of your friends and family and so on, that you are actually lying, it's not real. You are just pretending and you are living a double life. No double life is possible for a long term with effect, you will end up losing everything. Best do it properly and stand as an example."

In other words, if you're going to be in Desteni, you will have to break ties with all your non-Desteni friends and family.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 27, 2010 12:24AM

This is beginning to strike me as much less of a threat of a growing global cult than a localized threat of a Manson-like group, because Poolman does not have the savoie-faire to get past people who watch his videos, while his little following possibly are being treated like an annoying little bunch of weirdos who do not merit much attention as long as they seem to stay to themselves, as far as their neighbors are concerned.

Manson's fantasies included that the outrageous crimes committed by his followers would spark a revolution and a race war. His rantings were incoherent, and it is the incoherence of Poolman's whole program that is striking. Most cult leaders can carry their fantasy past the audience "suspended judgement" for at least a little while by having some apparent connection between effort and reward, but Poolman can't.

But Manson did not have the internet.

Are the regional or local authorities keeping an eye on Poolman in any way? What is South Africa like, as far as that kind of thing is concerned?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 12:25AM by dsm.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: June 27, 2010 07:59AM

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dsm
This is beginning to strike me as much less of a threat of a growing global cult than a localized threat of a Manson-like group, because Poolman does not have the savoie-faire to get past people who watch his videos, while his little following possibly are being treated like an annoying little bunch of weirdos who do not merit much attention as long as they seem to stay to themselves, as far as their neighbors are concerned.

There are people from all over the world visiting the Desteni farm all the time. Desteni YouTube channels are in various different languages representing Spain, the Netherlands, Portugal, China, Sweden, Germany and France, and there are forums in all those languages as well as Afrikaans. Many of the English-speaking forum users are from the UK, USA and South Africa. They are actively involved in translation work all the time. It has only been going for three years and Poolman has stated that he intends to focus on the local SA situation once he has established more of a global influence.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 27, 2010 08:35AM

well, it is very scary that people go to such effort for him. There are so many farm commune type groups to travel to see, why him?

I was getting the impression that this is all online work and the farm is the only real location. Are the people who visit the Desteni farm from other countries actually establshing more outposts? I still want to believe it is all manipulation and smoke and mirrors on the part of Poolman and a cluster of devotees.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Citizendc ()
Date: June 27, 2010 11:26AM

Quote

"Approaching researchers and universities to research the Portal
We have approached them with and ask for researchers to consider doing research and no-one, not even the most prolific parapsychologists in the world or departments that do research in this has come forward with any point, any suggestion.
One university did come back and say “What we have does not fall within the description of their research”. I mean, that’s obvious it can’t because there is no such description."

How many? Which universities did he approach? When? Who did he speak to?
Talk is cheap Bernard.

An independent researcher with a background in psychology can determine if the portal is real or fake given the opportunity.
Their policy of not communicating with the same portal personality twice is rather restricting to any researcher.
Course if you're running a magic show you wouldnt anyone discovering your trickery. So you just tell your herd that you tried, oh well, nobody wanted to test us and prove that the portal is not real.

>> “What we have does not fall within the description of their research”.
What desteni does it supposedly speak to the dead. Many psychics do this. Its nothing new.

Here is something that I've though about recently.
Desteni is going on about, the children being abducted, raped, abused etc...
Why do you think they are not making a phone call a day to the police to inform them of the location of these child abducters / abusers?
Surely their "amazing portal" can locate these children instantly and use that information to inform the police...
Just one a day, not asking them to make it their lifes work. And in SA where you can receive huge rewards for giving tips to the police, its not like it wouldnt be beneficial to their financial problem.

Why do you think they dont do it? Why do you think they just keep pushing the sales pitch but actually do nothing about the problem...

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 27, 2010 11:36AM

It is a bogey-man problem, designed so that you cannot challenge them without appearing to challenge the seriousness of that sort of crime.

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Winged, Eagle, Sunette Spies, interdimensional portal
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: June 27, 2010 04:50PM

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dsm
well, it is very scary that people go to such effort for him. There are so many farm commune type groups to travel to see, why him?

It's Sunette Spies they are drawn to far more than Poolman. She is the Desteni figurehead and has a higher profile than Poolman. It may be that Desteni acolytes identify with her, want to be like her and even imagine that her information is from "dimensions". The Desteni organization was founded on the work done by Spies since 2007 as she performed in over a thousand videos on YouTube communicating, amongst a load of other junk, the so-called "principles" and the practices of Desteni. Originally, she used the handle, "Winged" and Poolman, "Eagle".

According to Bernard Poolman, on Feb 22, 2009, there were 2.7 million hits per month on desteni.co.za. There are more than two thousand Desteni videos on YouTube with more being added every day. Many have viewing figures in the tens of thousands. Most hits on desteni.co.za will be in response to Sunette Spies as viewers want to find out what her bizarre and often laughable videos are supposed to represent.

Once they figure out it is not a joke, that Spies is seriously supposed to be "portalling" (as opposed to channeling) "interdimensional beings", as if such a thing were ever possible, then it becomes apparent it is all in order to encourage people to join an organization called Desteni which is meant to be about "oneness and equality". At first they may not be aware that it is run by Bernard Poolman, but they will eventually find out.

Some of the background to how Spies ended up working for Poolman is described by her in these videos: "4 - Portal History - On the Death of my Mother" -- [www.youtube.com] -- "5 - Portal History - Making my own Way" -- [www.youtube.com] -- "6 - Portal History - Bernard and Esteni of Desteni" -- [www.youtube.com]

It seems likely that when Spies met Poolman aged around nineteen or twenty she was still distressed after the death of her mother two or three years previously and not long after finding herself in conflict with her stepmother. In 2004 she was offered a job by Bernard Poolman, an amateur occultist and ex-cop who eventually got her to present herself on the Internet as an "interdimensional portal". Everything she talks about in her videos is directly in line with everything Poolman talks about, down to the last detail. It is all the same as his ideas, which he's adapted from various well-known sources.

Quote
dsm
I was getting the impression that this is all online work and the farm is the only real location. Are the people who visit the Desteni farm from other countries actually establshing more outposts? I still want to believe it is all manipulation and smoke and mirrors on the part of Poolman and a cluster of devotees.

Yes, the farm in SA as far as I know is the only offline location. There may be plans afoot to establish other centers of activity but the impression is that Poolman would not let that happen without his direct input and involvement. Meanwhile, the YouTube sub4sub Desteni propaganda and recruitment drive that Poolman is currently enforcing as mandatory work for his acolytes has them at computers endlessly trying to multiply views on YouTube.

See: "Process Support - Sub4Sub - Pyramid Schemes Know your Math" -- [www.youtube.com] -- "Process Support - Sub4Sub - Losing Heart" -- [www.youtube.com] -- "Process Support - Sub4Sub Tips continued" -- [www.youtube.com]

It is supposed to be towards establishing "Equal Money" as a new global economic system, but there are very few people who are going to be taken in by that, especially when they find out that that the campaign is connected to Desteni, a wacko cult run by a creepy-sounding middle-aged guy who never shows his face and has got a much younger girl to set up the cult on his behalf by pretending to have famous dead or fictional people talk through her -- not exactly very credible credentials in the fields of politics or economics.

Yet for every few hundred or thousand viewers of Desteni sub4sub channels there will be one or two who might be taken in and even go as far as to visit the farm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 04:53PM by Sandman.

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missing children, vlogs, Desteni
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: June 27, 2010 07:45PM

Quote
Citizendc
Here is something that I've though about recently.
Desteni is going on about, the children being abducted, raped, abused etc...
Why do you think they are not making a phone call a day to the police to inform them of the location of these child abducters / abusers?
Surely their "amazing portal" can locate these children instantly and use that information to inform the police...
Just one a day, not asking them to make it their lifes work. And in SA where you can receive huge rewards for giving tips to the police, its not like it wouldnt be beneficial to their financial problem.

Why do you think they dont do it? Why do you think they just keep pushing the sales pitch but actually do nothing about the problem...

Exactly, if Sunette Spies, the portal was able to actually speak AS missing dead children then she'd be able to provide the police with accurate information as to the circumstances of their deaths and the perpetrators of any such crimes involved, but of course that never happened. Poolman again realized he wasn't going to get away with that disgusting little ploy, so abandoned it. So much for "self-honesty".

There's a pretty horrible video here: "Missing Children --The HORROR of our Time - Place Vid resp!!" -- [www.youtube.com] -- from early 2008 where Desteni say they will do vlogs of interviews with missing children, and accept requests from the public. They did receive requests from the public regarding the recently departed, at least for a while. See: [web.archive.org]

Whether any of those descriptions of dead people are authentic is doubtful. All of it was just another stunt to promote the Desteni scam by trying to appeal to the moral instincts of viewers of these stupid videos.

There is a series of "interviews" with so-called dead children beginning with "1 Child life after death research Desteni" -- [www.youtube.com] -- and there was another video called "Desteni: missing children are the key to the truth of this reality" but curiously, it has been removed . . .
[www.youtube.com]

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