Quote
TheScientist
One needs to keep in mind that western science and traditional eastern therapies do not mix well. Western science’s predominant paradigm is to study the parts and not the whole, for example, the effect of a particular drug or therapy on the heart, or lungs, or cell lymphoma. The eastern methodology, on the other hand, takes into account the whole individual, which means, his physical, mental and emotional disposition, as well as his history.

We should also keep in mind that Innersound, or whatever name they're using this week, also doesn't mix well in their home country of Korea.

[english.chosun.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[articles.chicagotribune.com]

TheScientist,

The scientific study you quoted would not be taken seriously by anyone in the scientific community. An increase in 'cytotoxicity' can even be caused by 15 minutes of marital conflict -Martialconflict.

The Innersound orgnanisation has tried to use these 4 studies to validate itself- which are all equally poor:

Mood stability improves
Ki Treatment induces psychological stabilization, increases melatonin levels and enhances cellular function of neutrophils and NK cells.
Stress and Health 17, 17-24 (2001)
Increased Immunity
Ki Treatment improves human cellular immunity, by increasing the activity of natural killer cells– the body’s first line of defence against viruses and tumours. American Journal of Chinese Medicine 29, 17-22 (2001)
Effects on the elderly
Ki Treatment is shown to reduce anxiety, depression, fatigue, pain and blood pressure in elderly subjects.
Complementary Therapies in Medicine (2003) 11, 159-164
Relaxation induced
Subjects reported improved emotions of satisfaction, relaxation, and calmness during Ki Treatment as compared to levels reported during placebo Ki Treatments.
Intern. J. Neuroscience, 114:1493-1502, 2004
PMS symptoms relieved
Ki Treatment has a significant effect on pain and water retention. In addition, there are significant short-term effects on pain, mental depression and anxiety. Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine 10, 456-462, 2004


Yes, TheScientist, every knows that " there are no scientific studies that can prove that chemotherapy (or any other intervention) cures cancer". We all know there is no cure to cancer in conventional medicine. But as above in Innersoundwatch's post Master Oh claimed to cure his own cancer with your method. This can be verified by modern medicine- you can show with medical tests the cnacer is there- and then show with medical tests the cancer is gone. We are asking for you to submit 1 person that can show they had a medical condition, that was proved by medical tests, and then after coming to Innersound the condition is gone as proven through medical tests. Innersound cannot offer one.

What you do have is more and more people coming forward saying they were promised health cures and were left disappointed, and bled dry of all their money.

Also can you please explain how Innersound is helping with "hunger, wars, victims of climate change, ecological breakdown and economic meltdown". Because all I can see is a bunch of former clients, who are poorer and feel violated.

Let's not let the lead story get buried here- we now have multiple masters posting on this forum trying to do damage control because of Naima's story Naimastory to which they have no credible way of defending themselves. We have a very credible young woman, who claimed on her deathbed to her family friends, journalists and the police that Innersound told her not to have chemotherapy. She bravely spent her last few months fighting for her life and trying to expose this organisation so that the same thing does not happen to others.

Innersound claim she was manipulated by another individual with a vendetta against the organisation, in order to turn against them, but at the same time Innersound have said she was so strong minded she definitley could not have been manipulated by them.

Innersound also claim compassion for her situation but it required months of fighting between lawyers for them to refund her so she could seek alterantive medical help in the US. This is the one that really begs out for an explanation - Innersound why didn't you give her a refund when she asked, as she way dying and needed urgent medical help. Why did you delay, why did your compassion take a few months to kick in , in such an urgent situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2013 06:14AM by Innersoundwatch.

5 years ago I had very low energy levels, digestive issues, and low self-esteem. I generally wasn't feeling as well as I do now, after finding Innersound and their wonderful treatments and training programme. 

I have been a regular at their centre during this time and have witnessed many others being helped and supported by this very giving group of people. Today I am a stronger, happier, healthier and more positive person than I have ever been, but the benefits have not only been physical for me. Innersound were my main source of emotional and mental support when I was alone whilst pregnant with my daughter after being left by her father.

Their doors where always open for me and there was always someone who would listen and the treatments were calming, energising and give me the strength I needed.  Their centre is an oasis of calm, peace and beautiful energy that supported me through my crisis and in supports myself and my daughter in our health.

I am deeply saddened that people want to write negative press on Innersound, by attacking Innersound, they are also attacking the people they support, if they succeed in damaging Innersound, they also succeed in damaging my prospect of health, happiness and spirituality.  Everyone has a human right to their own belief system and Innersound embodies mine.

Vanessa999:

You say "Innersound and their wonderful treatments" are "physical," but also your "main source of emotional and mental support."

Is Innersound, now known as Qi Health, a belief system that subjectively makes people feel good or is it a treatment that produces objective physical results?

No one supporting Qi Health that has posted on this thread thus far has been able to cite a single independent scientific study that specifically demonstrates through objective physical evidence that Master Oh and/or Qi Health has produced objectively proven results. That is, healing people of physical illnesses through treatments by Qi Health. How has that been specifically and objectively proven and established?

What is the nature of those proscribed or prescribed treatments?

It appears that what Master Oh encouraged people to do is largely based upon beliefs concerning their ancestors, which would be a spiritual or faith claim, not a physical treatment.

You say that damaging Innersound would somehow damage your "prospect of health, happiness and spirituality."

It seems possible that you and others at Qi Health have become rather dependent upon Master Oh and the group.

Is that really healthy?

Quote
Vanessa999
I am deeply saddened that people want to write negative press on Innersound, by attacking Innersound, they are also attacking the people they support, if they succeed in damaging Innersound, they also succeed in damaging my prospect of health, happiness and spirituality.  Everyone has a human right to their own belief system and Innersound embodies mine.

Myself and others are writing about their personal experiences of Innersound/Qi Wellness and how we have been exploited by Master Oh and his cronies. What is really sad is how Master Oh and the others have manipulated people by saying that they can heal their health problems by undertaking ancestor healing. Why is it that Innersound keep on changing their name? It's because they're hiding from their hideous reputation. Inndersound/Qi Wellness exploited Naima Mohamed and claimed they could cure her cancer and they forced her to fight a legal battle while she was dying for the money she'd been conned out of for treatment in America. I think the behaviour of Master Oh and the others is shameful and really indicates a cruel and callous nature. Innersound will help you as long as you're able to provide them with money and lots of it.

Quote
Vanessa999
if they succeed in damaging Innersound, they also succeed in damaging my prospect of health, happiness and spirituality

Vanessa999, your post also indicates that after 5 years of attending Innersound that you still haven't got the health improvements you desire. People have payed out thousands upon thousands of pounds and never received the health benefits that Master Oh has promised. I used to think that the Master's were caring people and that they were my friends but they were using me all along just to see how much they could take from me.

Quote
SimonB

Firstly Innersoundwatch Cultnews.com is a domain owned by Rick Ross and its purpose is to promote his goals alone. It is a blog and can hardly be labelled as a source of reliable news. The article in question is illegal and wouldn’t make it anywhere near a reputable media or publishing company. You must have realised by now that the internet is uncensored and anyone can say anything they want without taking any responsibility for it – sound familiar?

Secondly I don’t believe that you even know Naima so everything you have said about her situation has been filtered and twisted by your network of armchair critics. No-one has called Naima a liar. The cultnews article is a lie.

Hello Simon, thanks for posting. I appreciate the chance to interact with someone who supports Innersound and the same goes to the other recent posters.

That's interesting that you say the article is illegal and wouldn't be published.

Allow me to sidetrack a little and share links unrelated to Innersound which I hope show that when it comes to exposing criminals, the UK doesn't offer the best environment for reporters and whistle blowers. I don't wish to divert attention from the main issue, but I think these are worth mentioning since they do speak to the overall climate in the UK. And they make for interesting reading anyway:

The first concerns a rather famous cyclist named Land Armstrong:
[www.guardian.co.uk]

Quote

The legal battle with disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong which cost the Sunday Times almost £1m after it suggested he took banned substances shows how difficult it is to pursue investigations under British libel laws, with the burden of proof heavily stacked against publishers, according to those who worked on the original stories.....The full-page article set the scene by telling readers straight away that Armstrong had declared just days before that "Walsh is the worst journalist I know". He added: "There are journalists who are willing to lie, to threaten people and to steal in order to catch me out. Ethics, standards, values, accuracy – these are of no interest to people like Walsh."

In his Oprah Winfrey interview last week, as well as admitting using drugs to win his tour titles, Armstrong was asked if he owed an apology to Walsh. He briefly hesitated, before saying: "I'd apologise to David."

The second is about Jimmy Saville.
[www.huffingtonpost.co.uk]

Quote

Who would risk putting their job, their newspaper, on the line now to give a voice to the victims, the down-trodden, the abused - the people that the Jimmy Saviles, the Gary Glitters, of the world prey upon?

And lastly, a piece about a group called Scientology and a book about them that is published in the US, but not the UK. Can we agree that Scientology is a cult? Or does the new scientist here have proof that their e-meter works and that Xenu the evil Galactic Warlord is a real person/being?
[www.guardian.co.uk]

Quote

Going Clear is a veritable book of revelations on L Ron Hubbard's sci-fi religion, exhaustively detailing its history, its methods and the depth of its weirdness.
Or so we're told. While Going Clear goes on sale in the US and the rest of Europe this week, you can't buy it in Britain. Not because it threatens national security, or features royal breasts, but because of our uniquely obliging libel laws.

Now I don't want to get sidetracked, I just wanted to show that the reason the cultnews piece hasn't been published may be related to the above, and not an indication of the falseness of the material.

Now back to the topic at hand. First of all, non of the allegations are new. Whether you believe them or not, similar allegations have been published before. This isn't something that has come out of left field. The Cultnews piece is entirely consistent with past published articles and complaints regarding Innersound and its previous incarnations. Naima's story was published by The Mirror
[www.dailymail.co.uk]

And a few years ago, this article by the same award winning journalist, David Harrison. (Paul Foot Award and the Amnesty International Press Award)

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Let's go through that article and see if there's anything you and I and the other recent posters can agree on.

Quote

Master Oh said he had cured himself of stomach cancer, and that he would help to cure her.

Another reference to Master Oh having been cured of cancer is here:
[www.positivehealth.com]

Quote

Having been diagnosed with the first stages of stomach cancer in his early twenties, Master Oh came to Ki Health. He healed himself with the Ki Method and went on to do the intensive training to become a Ki Master. He has now been a Ki Master almost twenty years and is well-known as the most senior Ki Master in the west, renowned for his healing ability. He was the first Ki Master to leave South Korea and introduce this method to the west, and has since opened Ki centres across three continents, including centres in Australia, US, Canada and the UK. Many of his patients travel a long distance to see him and he has helped people with a variety of chronic health conditions as well as with emotional and spiritual problems.

That's nice if he was cured. Good for him. So assuming he was cured, at least that he claims to have been cured, and given that Innersound claims to be able to make people better, I think it's fairly safe to assume that he did tell Naima that he could cure her.
Have you heard anything yourself (and that goes for the other members posting her as well) regarding his experiences with cancer?

The article also said Innersound used to be called Ki Health. We can agree on that, right? And before Ki Health it was called Chun Do Sun Bup. Are we in agreement? Granted Chun Do Sun Bup may have been before your time.

And the above says he has been a Ki master for almost twenty years. Obviously he didn't encounter the treatments while in England since it hasn't been there that long. I'd be curious to know where he first encountered the treatments - I assume Korea - and what the name of the organisation was that offered them to him and, since this organization or charity if you prefer does change its name an awful lot, what that organisation is now called. Could you ask him for me?

And according to this positive piece, Innersound Master Marco Mureno...

Quote

With my new-found energy, I signed up for healing classes - based on 1,000-year-old methods used by Korean monks - at Innersound. One night of full sleep led to another and my old personality returned. I started going out with my friends again and got a job as an insurance clerk. Then, in 2008, I gave up my job and flew to Korea to train as a Qi Master.

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

I'm living in Korea at the moment and also have problems sleeping - not to the extent that Marco did - but although I'm skeptical of Innersound, perhaps I should go along and experience a treatment. And who knows maybe I'll be cured and give up my job too. Can you tell me where he went? There doesn't seem to be an Innersound in Korea, perhaps they're using a Korean name.. fair enough. Most, if not all, Korean organizations have Korean names. It is Korea after all. If you get let me know what that is, I'd appreciate it.

And could you be more specific about what in the article you believe is a lie? Again, the same goes for the scientist and the other recent posters.
Thanks for reading.

Peter



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 06:26AM by Peter Daley.

I would guess Innersound are saying the thing about telling her not to have chemotherapy is a lie- they have pretty much stipulated that everything else is true themselves. I don't think there is any chance they could win a 'he said she said' in court, it is pretty clear from the supporting information that they most likely would have said something like that. But it would be in the public's interest to have Innersound in court, and all the truth about them exposed on the record so perhaps I shouldnt discourage them from a libel suit- go for it Innersound, the UK law is your buddy.

Vanessa999, if Innersound are so great, why are there so few people that stay with them? How many people attend each class now, how many people attend the ceremony on Sunday? I think you have seen over the 5 years that you have been going that 95% of people leave- I am sure Innersound have their own explanation, but really its mainly because people are unhappy with them. You do have a right to believe what you want- there are plenty of legitimate religions with stranger beliefs than that Korean woman and man were God, but now just the woman is because the man changed his mind, and you connect to her by bowing and praying to symbol on the wall- I mean once you add feeding the dead ancestors in it is up there with the stranger ones, but carry on if it helps you, that is your right. The problem is the deception, they don't have a right to do that. Did they tell you when you arrived 5 years ago that this Korean woman was God and they pray to her, or were you just told it was a health organisation in the beginning? When they first told you about Ancestor training, did they tell you that you would have to keep doing more and more, or did they just say you would need 6 lines. How many lines have you done over the 5 years?- be honest. And how many 100 days have you done? And how many cermonies have you sponsored? Add it all up you have been paying at least 5000 and probably closer to 10 000 Pounds a year. Do you know where the finish line is, or does it keep changing, again and again and again- its deception. Are you sure you know all of their beliefs- have you read the Book of Heaven and the grandmaster's speeches. Do you know about the upcoming disasters and special powers?

By the way I don't think they have tried Qi Health yet- Chun Do Sun bup, the Ki Health Foundation, then Ki Health, then Innersound Foundation, then Innersound, then Qi Wellness- I think. Could be wrong though.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 08:00AM by Innersoundwatch.

On my way in to post I noticed this, through the forum list :

"I studied with Zhi Gang Sha for some years and finally learned the hard way that:

1) He talks about the Divine a lot but unfortunately does not actually believe in the Divine or experience Source energy.
2) He's a most greedy businessman and dangerous because some of the things he says are actually true, and he uses this technique to draw in unsuspecting health seekers.
3) He is a man of great vanity and ego who knows full well that he is deceiving thousands of innocent, well-meaning people and ruining many of them financially.
4) Because he doesn't believe in karma himself (though he charges thousands for karma cleansing) he must not know that he is creating great karma for himself.
5) Those few who actually heal under his mind control do so by the power of their own faith.
6) Beware, for he is an extraordinarily clever con man who can really turn on the "charm."
7) I received many "downloads" and finally realized I had only received the hope of healings. I finally realized that anyone who has received healing while with Dr. Sha has created it for themselves, for Dr. Sha possesses no healing powers himself.
8) I too used to write a few of the reviews that Dr. Sha entices his followers to write (all on the same day so his books end up on the N Y Times Best Seller list) in exchange for free "downloads," and I send a heartfelt Congratulations and Beware to everyone who reads and questions the positive reviews of his books.
9) Dr. Sha tells his teachers that he'll cleanse their karma so they can become healers for humanity. No one can cleanse their karma by paying large sums of money for it. One can only cleanse their karma by doing deep and sincere spiritual work."

That reminds me a lot of Master Oh- I wonder if Master Oh really believes???

I know from personal experience that Innersound do claim to be able to heal Cancer but they don't guarantee it, they say everyone is different. They also don't ask you to stop conventional medicine, well at least in my case they didn't. However they do say that the chemotherapy puts a lot of posion and "heat" into your body, which you need their treatments to remove. My experience was that different masters told me completely contradictory things. I am sure the poor woman in that article got many mixed messages and got confused by it all. I am sure they did make her believe chemotherapy was poison, but I don't think they would have told her not to do it if she needed it. They don't believe in their own treatments and healings that much, its more of a mircale healing is possible through them but not a definite, in their minds. They are generally more misguided than cruel and callous.

Quote
JCrossik
They are generally more misguided than cruel and callous.

I think it's important to differentiate between the levels of involvement. I'm sure there are "masters" that sincerely believe they are trying to help people.
But behind them, Master Oh and his Korean masters above him - we have a group of very callous and cruel and ruthless individuals.

I've been threatened, I know others have as well, I know a former member was fired from her job in London because she made the mistake of sending a warning email to members from her work computer and Innersound went straight to their expensive lawyers and got her fired from her job. I believe there have been attempts to blackmail one of the regular posters here.
And please remember that the leaders of this cult (and what 30 or 40 senior members? It's all in the articles I posted earlier) were convicted of a massive fraud, not because they stumbled upon a 6,000 year-old mystical healing technique reliant upon burping and ghosts that kind of works sometimes a little bit for the right people, but because they developed a cult to enrich themselves by exploiting in particular the sick and dying. And if you get in their way, watch out. I certainly have the cops on speed dial.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 10:19PM by Peter Daley.