Its looks like Seung Sahn and Muktananda were just trying to "diss" eachother and give the other guy a "kick" in an infantile game of one-upmanship. (typical of gurus, who are the supreme narcissists)
Its pretty obvious that Seung Sahn was afraid that Muk would make him look like an ignorant, uneducated peasant, so Seung Sahn just says a bunch of nonsense to try and deflect.
Seung Sahn refuses a "gift" of a candy from Muk due to alleged diabetes, Muk tells him to walk to cure the diabetes, (implying that Seung Sahn is too fat), then SS responds like a 3 yr old...diabetes is good!
blah blah.
It just goes on and on.
[By the way, never accept a "candy" or "tea" or anything like that from a Guru like this. Ever.
It could be laced with a mild psychedelic...not a bad idea for a guru, hand out candies to people before you speak, which are laced with a psychedelic drug. That would have worked great in the 1970's, better than hash-brownies, and then people think you are a magical Guru with magical powers].
________________________
QUOTE: (Soen-sa is Seung Sahn)
Soen-sa—I am not a philosopher. I am not a scientist. I am not a Buddhist.
Muktananda—Then what is your philosophy, and what is the use of that philosophy?
Soen-sa—I have no philosophy.
Muktananda—Then what is your purpose?
Soen-sa—You already understand.
Muktananda—I must go now.
_______________________
He got that right. He is not a philospher, is totally ignorant of science, and is not a Buddhist either.
Its very apparent that Seung Sahn was literally a Zen flim-flam man, who found it was easy as hell to dupe doped-out dropped-out westerners, with a few trick phrases.
He went and set up a zillion Zen centers, handed out "robes" to anyone who could pay dues, got women to manage his "Zen" centers as he did not trust other men and thought they would steal his students/money. Then had sexual relationships with his female center leaders, to make them more loyal to him out of "love", all the time, lying his ass off while he was houndogging around the country.
Also notice, that when trapped, all Seung Sahn can say is..."I hit you with my Zen stick!"
That's all he's got. Either you submit to his nonsense, or he hits you with a Zen stick.
Well, perhaps if Seung Sahn had kept his "Zen stick" in his pants, then he would not have had those sex scandals with his students?
Why are some people attracted to this type of fraudulent "Zen"?
Perhaps because it allows them to do, and say, anything they want, without regard for the facts or even basic honesty?
For example Stephen Mitchell in this video, says his Zen Guru (who he doesn't mention by name due to the sex scandals) taught him to disregard the texts he was "translating"! There are some appropriate comments below from the youtube.
The Tao of Translation - Stephen Mitchell [
www.youtube.com]
So people who enjoy making stuff up, bluffing, tricking, manipulating, fabricating, those folks are going to be attracted to Seung Sahn and the Kwan Um School of Zen method. For them, its a virtue to try to dupe people and dominate them. Its the poker game of life.
Stuart Resnick has the support of Empty Gate Zen Center, so that place should be avoided at all costs.
In a sense, the Seung Sahn method, and the Byron Katie method are similar, in that their main technique is creating confusion in the students, and then dominating them. All the while denying it, and playing mind-games with them. Some research into the background of Seung Sahn would be very enlightening...that is certain.
Stephen Mitchell seems to have learnt the worst of both worlds.
In his video, you can see him play-acting, pretending he is trying to "remember" how old he was when he met his mysterious Zen teacher, the unmentionable Seung Sahn. Just transparent bluffing, he's told the "Story" many times, and he's just trying to copy his current master of public speaking, the wife Byron Katie.
Stephen Mitchell is a very poor public speaker, with a wispy monotone voice, in the videos of him reading his so-called "translations". Anyone who makes it past 60 seconds and stays conscious, gets a Muktananda candy.
On a scale of 1-100%, Byron Katie advanced public speaking skills, are in the 95% percentile.
Stephen Mitchell? 10% maybe even lower, down to 5%. Its unwatchable.
(similar to his clumsy use of various persuasion language patterns in his PR stuff)
But one wonders what kind of literary skeletons might be in the closet of Stephen Mitchell?
(have these books been compared yet?)
Grace Unfolding: Psychotherapy in the Spirit of Tao-te ching by Greg Johanson, Ronald S. Kurtz
A Thousand Names for Joy: Living in Harmony with the Way Things Are (Tao) Byron Katie - Stephen Mitchell
[
forum.culteducation.com]
[Warning about Stephen Mitchell's methods]
manipulative tactics from Stephen Mitchell in email
[
forum.culteducation.com]
[
forum.culteducation.com]
[
forum.culteducation.com]
MARY POPPINS and sock-puppets
[
forum.culteducation.com]
____________________________
[viewer comments]
The Tao of Translation - Stephen Mitchell [
www.youtube.com]
- So basically, rather than translating it, he just made it up.
- He didnt translate it. He doesnt even know the language it is written in. He 'interpreted it'. IE, he made it up because it 'sounded good' to him. He makes his assertations, such as 'Oh, such a wise document couldnt possibly have discriminatory language against women' or such, from a modern, western perspective and then incorporates it into his 'interpretation'- regardless of what the origional says. He is assuming beforehand that it must confirm to his worldview.
- i cannot imagine how his "interpretive translation" done without any knowledge of the chinese language is worth reading over other translations.
- hes not very smart. the stupid often see the regular as smart.
_______________________________