Krishna group in Hawaii
Date: September 27, 2005 04:14PM
<<<<In my defense of the woman with the child in question, I have been subject to a number of repremands and criticisms of my character by group members. These have done little to change my opinion of what I experienced and witnessed. Perhaps your experience with the devotees was more limited and less disturbing.>>>
Yes my experience with that group (siddha folks cult) was limited and less disturbing. I kept my distance.
If you have the integrity to speak the truth it won't be a bed of roses. History has shown that those who speak the truth rarely end up with palacial oceanside bungaloes in Hawaii or some other exotic location.. But…The truth always wins out in the end so just keep it up and don't let anyone silence you. You have something to say, and this forum has given you the place. Don't be intimidated.
<<<<As far as the sincerity of the group goes, I have seen little evidence of any in their response to this woman's pain. There was a time that I felt the same way that you do about them. I have little sympathy left for them at this point, and they have shown themselves, as a group, to be quite capable of rising to their own defense. I am just one individual, and certainly pose no threat to either them or you, regardless of your opinion of my interpretations of their behavior.>>>>
Where mercy is shown mercy is received. What goes around comes around. No body has to have a phd in philosophy to understand that. I do believe there are some sincere people in both the mentioned cults. My point is do not throw out the whole barrel due to the misdeeds of a few bad apples.
Every brainwashed army has it's cannon fodder of willing soldiers ready to carry on the status quo in order to rise to the top of the heap. I don't know if the 'Siddha folks cult' give out spiritual stars and stripes but from your testimony it sounds like they do.
I am quite aware of their ability to rise to the defense. I gave up debate with them long ago when it became apparent my simple questions like, "why don't you just admit you are hare Krishnas' and 'what's the paranoia about the third gender about' and 'where is jagad guru, why can't I go see him' were met with suspicion and preprogrammed robotic like responses. This is what brought me to this forum and inpired me to participate. I can give my opinion even if it differs from theirs and I am pretty sure at least a few of them are watching.
One thing I would like to say about the third gender paranoia is this. Whether you 'fight with' or 'make love with', those of a different sexual orientation it is still part of the same dance. What ever suits your fancy I suppose.
(<<<<<Iskcon, on the other hand, was quite capable of defending themselves in the lawsuit brought against them by the approx. 400 abused and neglected "children of Iskcon". There are links to the actual lawsuit posted on this forum, if you care to investigate further than your own intuition.)B>>>>>>
The ones at the top don't always represent the ones at the bottom or inbetween. Do you know how much abuse went on in the name of Jesus Christ??? A lot more than 400!!!! Again a simple point. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I know a couple of those kids who got abused. It did not dissuade them from remaining devotees. I know the parents too and they jumped for joy when the lawsuits were won. The 'Siddha folks cult' are not the only ones who offer good Kirtan parties and great vegetarian cooking.
No man/women in this world is omniscient, the bigger the group the harder it will be to control. Brainwashed is brainwashed but religion in itself is not all bad. What ever label you give it some will use it for their own nefarious desires.
<<<<Who said anything about "demons with horns", anyway?
My allegations were much less lyrical, and more concrete>>>
No you did not say that, I did.
Call me a poet if you like. When I speak from my heart that is how it comes out. I don't hide what is there or try to piece it together with bricks and morder. I just tell it like I see it. My 'demons with horns' point is simple. I would like to give a little balance to this forum and encourage all sides to speak out.
The easiest way to catch a rascal is by letting him/her talk. If they have nothing to hide let them come out and talk.
<<<I am sick of the lying, spying, and deception that has been going on here intended to disguise the issue and discredit those who have not had positive experiences with the Cult following of Chris Butler and are willing to speak out about it.>>>
I am on the side of the truth where ever that ends up. Keep talking and please and don't let me dissuade you. That is not my intention at all.
The following is just the gospel according to one freespirit. I don't mean to hurt or be cruel to any soul. But sometimes we can learn an awful lot from somebody we consider our inferior. So consider me an inferior but let me speak my peace.
In my estimation there is rarely any black and white scenerio. Figuring out the grey areas is what it is all about and which side of the grey to lean towards. I would not call any soul evil. I believe every soul in this world is inherently good. But I would say, and this is my opinion not necessarily 'absolute truth', that some how or other they (Jagat Guru and the Iskcon gurus after the founder left) got some of the wrong ingredients mixed up in the philosophy they teach and they ended up with a spoiled casserole. It looks good on the outside but sours the more you dig into it. Sooner or later somebody is going to have to eat the 'humble pie' and throw out the bad ingredients if that religion is going to go anywhere.
I am moving into my senior years now but when I was younger I used to get around quite a bit and do a lot of traveling.. One thing I could never get around was the Hare Krishna's at the airports. Every American traveler knows what I am talking about. Well the softy that I am I always gave them what they wanted and got a book in return. I ended up with quite a collection too!! There must be a gazillion of those books floating around the world by now. Well by golly I am not stupid, if I pay for something I am gonna get something out of it!!!.
According to the Hare Krishna books I read, the crown jewel of a Guru in the Hare Krishna Religion is his/her humility. Therefore it should be easy for the gurus to admit their mistakes, IF they are actually self-realized souls, as many profess to be and many of their followers proclaim. Lying, cheating, dishonesty, spying and deception are not the traits of a realized soul.
Why follow such rascals?
Wow it sure did feel good to say that!!
Still looking for a happy ending.
peace and truth be with you,