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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: March 12, 2024 11:34PM

This whole cult is based on the worship of the goddess radha. She represents the ideal devotion towards the god krishna. What no cult member will tell you though is that the goddess Radha is a recent and modern invention in Hindu lore. There is literally no mention of her in any verifiable scriptures more than 500 to A Thousand Years ago. And even then her position, status in the pantheon and so forth have changed and developed through poetic interpretations and latter additions. As outsiders, we can either understand that the goddess Radha evolved with the bhakti movements in India as a sort of stand-in for the ideal level of devotion that the practitioner should have for god, or we can accept it as something they think is a literal personality. But what we cannot accept by any measure is that this goddess is Vedic in origin or even that the Krishna God is Vedic in origin. So we start to really see the picture of a fairly recent religious development. Their own bagavatam does not mention the goddess radha. Nor does the gita make any mention and so on. In fact none of those scriptures make any mention of the Hare Krishna Maha mantra. And I've stated this many times before, pretty much all of the claims of this movement can be traced back to some 500 years ago. The fact that they consider the founding saint of the cult to be an incarnation of Radha and krishna. The fact that there are mysterious scriptures that only their group of people found and the fact that many of their beliefs were things that were manifest either in dreams or visions. There is no guru guide book, there is no scripture for how a Guru is meant to behave or treat his disciples and so forth. At best there's some sporadic verses that describe some of these things but nothing that actually States in any way when and how a guru should step down, or get involved or what kind of dealings they should have in terms of money and volume of disciples and so forth. So it's basically just somebody winging it and the fact that anyone in their right mind thinks that it's their position to act as a shelter for and guide for thousands of people while they hide reclusively in some beach house or have their disciples do most of their biddings is preposterous. It's arrogant and at the end of the day it has a deep level of narcissism attached to it. If you see photographs of these gurus sitting with thousands of garlands around their neck and they're smiling and thinking that that's totally normal, fine, and okay, while somebody is bowing at their feet, little kids and otherwise intelligent adults, it's really disgusting is what it is.

RUN.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: newday4U ()
Date: March 13, 2024 08:57PM

Thank you for this post, RUN_FOREST_RUN.
Succinctly put.
My concerns exactly.
When I asked my Swami, 'why isn't Radha mentioned in the Gita?' I was told, 'the whole Gita is about Radha!' What???
Although I love many of the verses in the Gita, I wonder if the whole Radha-Krishna thing is ultimately nothing more than an astral distraction that ultimately keeps us from our true relationship with the Divine. The spiritual arena is fraught with delusions, distractions and disinformation yet dazzles us with colors, sounds and smells, and keeps us busy with rituals and proscriptions so we don't look too deeply.
And, hey! Everyone else is doing it...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: March 14, 2024 09:05PM

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Might be another way of saying that earning money
> reducing mysteries beyond words to words,
> commodifies them and breeds delusion?
>
> Lots of ways to interpret this.

Yes. Making money takes attention and effort. Moreover, there is a warning in the literature of this tradition that the spiritual life is destroyed by those who strive for too great achievements (undertakings). And this element was present, for example, in the expansionism of the Mission, e.g. in Poland or the Czech Republic, where the initiated disciple sent to preach to the Czech Republic clearly had mental problems and eventually left the Mission, etc. In the words of Tusta Krishna das (David Muncie), "when the Mission explodes" in the sense of it begins to develop rapidly - it is the desire to build a large sect... The element of great achievements along with theft is visible in QNET Japa das, where they want to "touch a billion hearts" - to charge an entry fee... And Japa das himself says in his posts that he wants more, that you cannot give in to the limits of your mind. Despite the victims of QNET... This is madness. Holy, sanctified by the only true "guru" of the whole world, "married paramahamsa..."

newday4U Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I asked my Swami, 'why isn't Radha mentioned
> in the Gita?' I was told, 'the whole Gita is about
> Radha!' What???

This is a very interesting issue. Especially since in the Gaudiya tradition there is a clear distinction between "sambandhanuga bhakti" and "kamanuga bhakti" (service to Radha's companions).

And this is a strong question - what if these rituals do not cleanse but leave the adept at the level of material imaginations? Plus doctrinal problems like the fact that Radha had a husband, Abhiman. And even if Krishna was actually the husband in Brahma's arrangement, Brahma's participation would signal the material entanglement of the situation. Imperfection and non-originality. Or maybe it's just a husband in material manifestation? These topics were not discussed in the SIF.

And finally, not forgetting - that the cult of Krishna merged with the cult of Vasudeva. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami said that Vasudeva-Krishna was present in the Field of Kuruksetra.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2024 09:08PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: XKRISHNA ()
Date: March 16, 2024 09:15AM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Broken is, as broken does.
>
> RUN.

Today he gave me a very nice pipe as a gift. It's a hand pipe for cannabis, that I will use forever and keep safe and protected. But I do not, and will not, pressure him to go on the record AT ALL. I do not even mention it when we hang out. We just smoke, listen to music, and tell each other stories. Just FYI, FORREST. ;-)

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: March 16, 2024 11:48AM

XKRISHNA, keep on rocking in the free world.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: XKRISHNA ()
Date: March 16, 2024 08:13PM

Party on, FORREST.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: March 19, 2024 12:10AM

It looks like Siddhaswarupananda's foremost disciple, Tulsi Gabbard, is cavorting with Beavis and Butthead (Trump's sons) and expressing her Vaishnava urge for power:

“I’d be honored to actually be in a position to help President Trump execute his policies ... bringing the experience that I have had of being on the front lines of many of these battles and actually understanding what we’re up against,” said the former Democratic congresswoman from Hawaii.

The only frontline battle she has ever fought was with her cognitive dissonance.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/politics/tulsi-gabbard-tells-donald-trump-jr-how-badly-she-wants-to-be-his-dad-s-running-mate/ar-BB1jTgYQ

Also leaving this Jai Shitty piece here cuz it aligns with Butler's group.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/opinion/jay-shetty-s-fake-origins-don-t-matter-to-his-instagram-cult-they-just-want-meaning/ar-BB1jqsnx

Gaura Premanandi Hari Horrible!

RUN.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: March 29, 2024 07:18AM

Leaving these where they belong. Siddhswarupananda fopremost disciple and cult devotee, Tulsi Gabbard, once again enjoying the pleasure of politics:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/tulsi-gabbard-says-it-s-not-a-leap-to-think-hillary-clinton-controlling-us-government/ar-BB1kzQzC


https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/03/tulsi-gabbard-i-know-whos-really-running-the-white-house-and-its-not-joe-biden.html


RUN. Just not for president.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: March 31, 2024 11:09PM

https://www.academia.edu/45112113/Science_Sanskritized_How_modern_science_became_a_hand_maiden_of_Hindu_nationalism?email_work_card=view-paper


Leaving this one here mainly because Chris butler named his organization the science of identity foundation. And a lot of Hare Krishna propaganda throughout my years involved with them had to do with them trying to associate some kind of connection with their ideology and scientific rigor. Which does not exist and has no correlation whatsoever.

Run.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: April 02, 2024 01:30AM

On the origins of Radha goddess: https://perspectives-jdmc.in/re-orienting-mythology-sita-and-radha/

Indian pastoralism and the importance of the cow and why it became such a big part of Hindu culture over time (and no, it has nothing to do with them being "dear to Krishna "): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/09719458211054593

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