Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 06, 2018 03:17PM

This quote by Shanti is a good example of the mind control within the Butler cult many years ago .

Yes, as a female ex-member of that group, I can absolutley say that fears of the outside world, and people in general who were not devotees, (called "karmi's") was hammered into you daily. Don't associate, don't associate, don't associate! Women are told they NEED husbands because the world is dangerous . You're at high risk of only God knows what happening to you w/o their protection. You are told that THE only path to God is through your spiritual master(Butler ). Total submission, unquestioning obedience is the fine line you must learn to walk with all your heart to achieve ANY knowledge of God. For lots of us, a huge range of old hippies, who had gone the gamut of drug years, meditation techniques, living in nature in jungles, Christian backgrounds on and on... we'd about run out of options (we thought) for spiritual enlightenment. Here was a new one...with a live-in-your-face-guy telling you what to do. HE could be kind & melt your heart one minute, and hold you in despair the next. If you got punished for some offense and were not allowed to go to kirtan, your whole world fell apart! Those people, that life, THAT was your did not extend past this select group of humans activities. We did not own any books or music that wasn't associated with this. No TV watching, no outside friends (unless you were trying to recruit them) etc. And, devotees spied one one another! It's true. If you saw a devottee doing something they "shouldn't", even drink a damn coke, rumors flew at the speed of light! All this was most especially true if you were in Honolulu, as that was a big clan gathering spot. HE was there a lot of the time, Down To Earth was there, the warehouse etc...lots was centered in Hawaii then. That's how I felt anyway. When I was initiated by HIM, I was told that the beads he just placed around my neck were like a dog collar, for the spiritual master (Butler)to yank on at any time he pleased. That's a quote. Total total submission was what it was all about.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 07, 2018 02:13PM

One of the most disgusting thing that has been described on this forum is that disciples of Butler did eat bits and pieces of the toenails of their guru as a sort of HOLY COMMUNION ...they call the toenails of Butler MAHA PRASADAM (HOLIEST of FOOD )
What type of man would let his followers eat his toenails?

Here is a quote from a follower of Chris Butler .Radha Krishna posted Dec 20 2006

"Toenails are maha prasadam - purifying. I have had the glory of eating them myself"

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 07, 2018 03:08PM

After reading these quotes you wonder how can a "spiritual master" talk to his disciples in such a demeaning way?How can disciples keep serving a man that verbally abuse them in such a way and how can disciples keep giving him money and services? It can only be explained by realizing that there is a deep mind control process at work in this cult the same mind control process use by Scientology leader David Miscavige..who for years has been abusing his subordinates ..physically ..mentally and emotionally.

Famous Chris Butler quotes

“ You are all demons, you are just like f###king ISCON, You’re all condemned!!!”
“I am not condemning you, you are condemning yourself.”

“My Godbrothers in Iskcon are clumps of dog stool.”

“ If I don’t want to answer you, you are at fault, not me.”

“If you don’t know you are not supposed to know.”

“Tell that a-hole the only way he can come to a gathering is if he pays 100 dollars each time.”

“Tell a-hole I changed my mind, he has to pay 1,000 dollars every gathering he comes to.”

“As soon as you realize you have nothing to offer me and you don’t know anything maybe then I can teach you something.”

“It is your fault, the guru is faultless.”

“My disciples make me sick.”

“You would think with 25 kitchen servants and 35 preparations a day, spending over a hundred dollars a meal, you a##holes could make something good to eat. Instead I have to go to a Chinese restaurant to get a bite to eat. A-holes!!!”

“You fool don’t say the metal detectors are to detect guns, say they are to detect beeper watches, you know what a great offense it is to wear one near me. Oh I am so irritated by that sound!!!”

“Damn it keep your gun in your bead bag. That’s what it is for idiot!! You probably thought you were supposed to keep beads in that bag. Fool!!! I have to teach you guys everything!!!”

“WTF is a##hole doing here, tell him to get the f##k out of here.”

“Tell J--- I don’t want to see his face, but because I have to talk to him and deal with him, he can wear a bag over his head, then I don’t have to see his face.”

“I am more humble than anyone, even my own guru.”

“Damn bogus guru! They all have guruitis.”

“My disciples all have guruitis too!!!”

“My disciples are all f###king neophytes.”

“Everyone has guruitis but me and VD.”

“Insulting VD is worse than insulting me you idiot.”

“Are those a-holes still running that store in Lahaina, why don’t they give it to DTE, a-holes--- and they call themselves my disciples make all kinds of money while their kids skate and surf, a-holes, they should give it to me.”

“WTF!!!!.. you guys have been working on getting this house together for 6 weeks now. You expect me to live here after you shit all over it??? You missed a space there dumb shit, cover it with tin foil so I can live here in peace. Straighten out your germ mask idiot.”

“Tell Sankirtan das to stay out of my house, he has dirt between his toes.”

“Tell Wayne and Krishna das, WTF, I let them get into politics and now they act just like politicians!!!! They became politicians those buttheads!!”

‘ I let my disciples dress like karmis and materialist and now they act like karmis and materialists, a-holes.”

“Call the head of personal service, everyone fast for 6 months, the milk in the refregerator is out of date. Call a meeting world wide. Tell the head of personal service to get her ass here right now!! WTF is this hair doing in my soup gaddamit. Tell everyone fast for a year, six months is too lenient. Tell the head of personal service not only must she fast from food and water she has to fast from sleep too!!!”
Get that sh###t out of here, you call that prasadam, a-holes!!!” Everyone is fined 1,000 dollars each.!!!”

“ You spend a fuggen 100,000 dollars on this air machine and I still have to use an oxygen bottle, can’t you guys do anything right??”

“What you expect me to breath common air?? A-holes!!”

“What? Just because you come here and clean my floor and wash my dishes, eat my toenails and drink my footwater you think you have the right to talk to me, write me a letter a-hole.”

“The only person I can trust is VD.”

“The guru is never attached to the opposite sex.”

“Where is VD, I have not seen her in the last 10 minutes.”

“What you think I spend all my time with my wife because I am attached? A-hole this is pure devotional service, me and VD will serve together in the spiritual world too you envious snake!!”

The pure devotee is peaceful and does not need anything or anyones service, he has Krsna.”

The pure devotee is self satisfied, always peaceful and never troubled by the duality of the world.”

“The servant of Krishna has no enemies.”

“What is that A-hole doing here, I told him get the hell out of Hawaii and go back to New Zealand.”

“Ok you can take off the bag now, I think you learned your lesson.”

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 08, 2018 07:19AM

Rick Ross definition of a cult 100% applicable to Chris Butler SOI cult

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies, and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

[u:463c97e317]Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader. [/u:463c97e317]
Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

[b:463c97e317]Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader. [/b:463c97e317]

Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or ha

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 08, 2018 09:18AM

TULSI Gabbard was born and raised in the Butler cult


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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 09, 2018 08:07AM

Posted on this web site Feb 5 2007
This post demonstrates that Swami Bhaktivedanta did not care much where the money was coming from ...he took the money over and over again from Butler and that seems to have stop Swami Bhaktivedanta from asking too many questions about the activities of Chris Butler .

Chris Butler paid ISKCON $28 000 and $800 the same day that he sent ACB his letter asking for initiation. ACB immediately sent a letter (in all capital letters) to his disciples requesting that they do not spend the money as he was already in negotiation to buy a $70 000 house in India. This was to be the deposit. Siddha on the other hand had his own plans. You'll notice in Sai speaks published in the same year as he requested initiation stating that he was not a bona-fide guru in the *sense* of disciplic succession which made it harder for people to tell if he is qualified. (As if just saying that makes you qualified :roll: ). So at least he thought he was qualified and a pure devotee. From this you can see his intention was to claim this title prior to even meeting his spiritual master. The money being a sweetener of the deal.

In July of 71 Siddha gets initiated and little over a year later Tusta Krishna prabhu is writing a letter to ACB about Siddha as a pure devotee and asking if the spiritual master (Siddha) is ultimately Krishna and if he will get to be with his spiritual master after leaving this world. (Boy was that relationship a little too how-do-you-do for a Siddha friendship?) ACB explains that he is thinking like an impersonalist and that he shouldn't make a faction by making claims of Siddha being above other disciples and if Siddha goes all the disciples should go to Krishna.

Notice too he addresses Tusta and other disciples by alternate names like prabhu or master as a sign of respect. Siddha svarupa's followers only ever get das or dasi (servant or servantess).

A year later Siddha along with Gaurasudara are selling the Hawaii temple and taking of with the money. ACB just asks for the money back and seems much more concerned about the money than his disciples.

ACB came to Hawaii and questioned Siddha about the behavior of his group being different and withdrawn from ISKCON and why Siddha's followers didn't want to go see ACB. So Siddha returns the next day with $10 000 which pleases his guru and goes about his merry business. ACB wouldn't have accepted Siddha taking disciples but as far as Siddha's group not shaving their heads, not wearing the dress and not selling books it was hardly a expelable offence. ACB didn't say he couldn't write his own books and distribute those instead but ACB asks how he is going to make money if Siddha gives his own books away for free. So Siddha buys outright $5000 worth of books and ACB is happy and Siddha doesn't have to sell his books. ACB didn't say that he couldn't form a non-profit religious organisation while he was still alive nor a political campaign. ACB didn't say that he couldn't cut an album while he was still alive so Siddha does these things instead.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 09, 2018 08:31AM


Another ex-disciple of Chris Butler with buyer remorse

"I do feel great disappointment like you say in that I at a young age offered my life, mind, and body to a cult due to believing that Chris Butler was a compassionate person teaching people how to be free of suffering. Now with each new piece of information that shows to me how dishonest he is and how his group doesn't even stick to his own principles I feel more and more disgusted with him and his group. The lies they tell to get people to completely surrender over their entire lives is utterly despicable. I wonder if the Sacramento SOI are actually honest about their organization also. It would be difficult to believe seeing all the ads for SOI on the net offering meditation saying nothing of what the respondent is really getting themselves into .(NO MENTION OF BUTLER )

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 09, 2018 09:47AM

Posted by Zeling 2007 on this forum

A good description of the Chris Butler cult

1. Their leader claims a special, exclusive realization, self-appointing or elevating himself to the position of world teacher, Jagad Guru, pure devotee, whose authority is given by God and by virtue of being in a disciplic succession.
2. They believe they are the only true, non-sectarian religion and take a critical stance regarding all other religions while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
3. They use intimidation, psychological manipulation, and public humiliation to keep members loyal to their ranks (e.g., made to wear bags on the head or stickers with the word “tilly”). There are also threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain spiritual death if a follower does not comply with the guru’s wishes; being shunned by their family and friends in the group; or separating (stealing, hiding) a child from a parent who has gone astray. These components are all vital parts of the mind control process.
4. Participants will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. There is compulsory tithing (which is checked); at times signing over all their property or businesses to the group’s acting local agent (disciple); coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling goods or working for low or no wages for the group as part of their “devotional service”.
5. There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of participants will be totally absorbed into the group’s activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of meditation practices and physical/emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.
6. There will be total control over almost all aspects of their private lives. This control can be direct through communal living and working, or constant and repetitious teachings through gatherings, videos and tapes, and required amounts of specific meditation and breathing techniques. Participants will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
7. The cult claims that it is non-sectarian and has no membership or organization to join. They are told that all they need to do is to love Krishna and serve him through his one and only pure representative on earth, Chris Butler (Jagad Guru, etc).
8. Any dissent or questioning of the group’s teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion, “falling down”, being materialistic, or lacking intelligence. You will be accused of being a “crow” or a “demon”. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained by the group.
9. Participants scramble to demonstrate their loyalty and “seriousness” to the group in some way. This could be in the form of tithing lots of money, working longer hours, spying and reporting on questionable followers or enemies, or pleasing the initiated disciples in charge of recommending you for initiation to Chris Butler or to be set up with a good marriage partner in the group.
10. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with derision, slander, harassment and threats. Some members may have taken oaths of loyalty and sign confidentiality agreements that come in conflict with their own conscience. Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members or with coercion to get them to return to the group. There also can be attempts to recruit refugees by other groups with similar beliefs, but are opposed to Chris Butler’s leadership.
11. A secretive network is established that keeps information about Chris Butler’s activities away from the participants. Few members really have access to all of Chris Butler’s modus operandi or projects. Businesses are put in follower’s names, but controlled by Chris Butler. Loyal followers are taught to lie about their involvement in the group. Former participants fear retaliation for revealing the pieces of information they know

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 09, 2018 10:02AM

Posted by Zeling March 2007

Mr Chris Butler

Over time you became ambitious and simple living and teaching the Gita was not enough. You always had a lone hunger and needed an adversary to battle. Political thinking and self-righteousness was in your upbringing. A sense of grandeur was emerging. The pleasure of becoming a puppet master was being tasted. You began to live vicariously through your political mannequins.

Change came. Everyone but a few farmers were moved out of the peaceful countryside to warehouses and rented spaces in the city. Simple living and high thinking was exchanged for dumpster diving and back stabbing. Talk of the battlefield of Kurukshetra changed to organized crime and politics. Putting on feasts changed into political campaigns or selling cookies for a phony rehab clinic. Meditation on japa beads carved from holy tulasi wood changed to chanting on ‘clickers’, those hard, cold contraptions used to count crowds. Transcendental sound vibration became door-to-door campaigning for political candidates or talk of multiple business enterprises.

Daily congregational kirtans became rare events led by the exhausted or the haughty who enjoyed the sound of their own voices. Bead bags changed into gun holsters for your body guards. Your simple sadhu huts with no electricity turned into mansions lined with tin foil and elaborate air filtration systems. You became ill, or it has been suggested, feigned illness to procure more services and money.

I left you stealthily and slowly. I had more to fear from your followers than from you if I pointed out that the ‘emperor had no clothes’. There were too many things that you should have known about, but did not. I tested you on many occasions. You failed. You should have realized how much people loved you and yearned for real spiritual advancement. You should have been concerned about how people were treating their godbrothers, spouses and children. You should have cared when people were poor, sick and in pain, or lonely. You should have cared that young men and women were sleeping alone in cars, on cardboard boxes in warehouses, or in crawl spaces between floors, just to serve you. But it was never enough, never right, never appreciated, rarely pleasing. You were more upset about the expiration date on a container of milk or the setting of a thermostat than about the death of a young woman follower. Do you even remember her name? You didn’t care that Katyayani’s babies were neglected and crying when she was out campaigning. You didn’t care when your cook was on the verge of a nervous breakdown from exhaustion. You didn’t care when a little boy was run over by a car. You didn’t care about the child with autism who was molested because his mother and husband were too busy serving you. “All nothing” you say, compared to how your food is cooked and your shirts are laundered.

Maybe you knew all along. The word misanthrope comes to mind.

I find out years later that those you once said were pure devotees are now considered envious and have left your service. If you were really God’s best friend and they were also God’s best friends, why doesn’t everyone agree? How is this possible? Pure devotees are not supposed to fall down or change their minds. The curtain has fallen away and the ‘great wizard’ is just an ordinary man after all.

Some of your followers were crooks and thieves. They stole from me, they stole from you. Your pal God should have clued you in on these guys. If we complained, you would say, “No one is perfect. You are all in the same hospital. Don’t be surprised if the guy next to you has a broken leg.” until you got ripped off! If something happened to us, it was our karma. If something happened to you, it was an offence. There is no way you could be responsible. Blame the disciple game. Blame them for your colds and viruses. Blame them for your wife’s head injury. From thousands of miles away disciples were all viewed as trying to murder you if the thermostat was a few degrees off. The word paranoia comes to mind.

There was a turning point when you could have done something of real significance and benevolence for your followers, along with the people of Hawaii. You were in a position of leadership and authority. You could have helped people who were suffering simply with a kind word, encouragement, advice, but you only laughed and scoffed at their problems as meaningless compared to your own. You had great ideas for Hawaii. Simple Living and High Thinking. Small is Beautiful. Eco-spiritualism. But your penchant for negativity and putting everyone down crippled any chances of you becoming a man of substance. Your movement was no longer pleasurable, no longer inspiring.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 10, 2018 03:02AM

Krishna group in Hawaii new
Posted by: emntk ()
Date: March 31, 2007 11:35AM

What I don't understand is how Chris was all that different back then to how he is now. From accounts children were neglected and left to fend for themselves, others were poor and hungry, all the same, brainwashing techniques were used and he had people waiting on him hand and foot. As soon as his guru died and even in the years beforehand he started on his political campaigns and business ventures. He obviously thought he was about to 'croak it' at any minute if he thought an air conditioner would kill him. He still had all his nutty ideas, his homophobia existed even when he was in the company of his guru and Sai speaks was being distributed up until 1973 and there is a highly detailed report to Bhaktivedanta that he was still using psychic sleep at this stage too. At the time he began writing and distributing his little brochure books full of lies and brainwashing. He also had this threat of nuclear war and the environmental destruction that was going to make the world resemble the later stages of kali yuga, along with all the other threats to modern life that were just around the corner. He obviously had all the signs of a neurotic mental illness back then too.

What really was the difference? Perhaps he now lives in a mansion lined with tin foil. His nutty traits became magnified over time and it is not that they simply arose later.

Threats, lies and manipulation, humiliation and degradation, isolation and deprivation, occasional indulgences, all-powerful guru, negative reinforcement and monopoly on thought, dominance and slavery all the elements of brainwashing were there.

Nothing has changed.

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