Quote
Dassi
This Krishna loves Jesus, Jesus loves Krishna booklet
brought back a lot of memories.
...

Yea, me too. There was also another little booklet called
"ALOHA SPIRIT - WHY DEAD?"
or something like that... This booklet was about how the American lifestyle had ruined the "Aloha Spirit" of the Hawaiian people... how tourism, industry, money etc. from the mainland had ruined the beatiful and simple way of life of the Hawaiian people. (Again, the theme of simple lifestyle which so contrasted the guru's own lifestyle just a decade or so later....)

But the Jesus Loves Krishna booklet was what attracted a lot of followers such as myself... people with a Christian type background were attracted to this stuff ... lots of biblical quotes. Just like the Children of God chumps or "Jesus freaks" (I was not attracted to these Jesus cults at all -- they were just too corny, weren't they? People on the streets chanting the name of Jesus with guitars -- just too corny, eh?:)

But the biblical quotes with the Eastern Religion flavor certainly hit a nerve with a lot of us all those years ago... I know that there is no point in arguing about Religion in this forum, but the chanting and religious dogmas presented by this cult in those days did indeed seem like a "gentle force" ~ little did we know how it would turn out a decade or so later...
_____________________

There was a couple of ozzie oz-holes,
Who joined up with the Haribols...
But they were too immature
To take all that Hari-bull manure
However, their life got ruined by trolls.

Just Babbling !!!
;)

More from the Ofshe article which is a PS to my last post.
See [www.culteducation.com]

Quote

Attribution theories would predict that if there were differences between the power of reform programs to promote belief change in settings that were relatively more or less blatantly coercive and physically threatening, the effect would be greatest in less-coercive programs. …”

Quote

”Contemporary thought-reform programs are generally far more sophisticated in their selection of both destabilization and influence techniques … For example, hypnosis …In most modern examples in which hypnosis is present, it functions as a remarkably powerful technique for manipulating subjective experience and for intensifying emotional response. It provides a method for influencing people to imagine impossible events such as those that supposedly occurred in their "past lives," the future, or during visits to other planets. If persons so manipulated misidentify the hypnotically induced fantasies, and classify them as previously unavailable memories, their confidence in the content of a particular ideology can be increased…”

The problem is that participants experiencing false spiritual experiences and fantasies become quite emotionally attached to them. Believing them to be real, they create even more justifications for continued membership in the culture that supports the mythology.

It is extremely painful to look at the fact that you were manipulated into believing these things. Not least of all, they deny a person from being able to distinguish a real spiritual experience from an imprinted, imposed, and false one. Most people do not know how easily they can be manipulated into ecstatic states. All Jagad Guru had to do was to stand up and lead a kirtan. Jumping up and down and periodically smiling at a follower and throwing a flower garland at him would drive the chanters absolutely wild!

Singing, dancing and playing music is a lot of fun in itself. Add to that the programed fantasy that you are dancing with a messiah, well...that's a real rush! The stuff of legends told to future generations who will have no contact with guru. Only that it was never real... and the flower garlands dry up and turn brown...

Maybe parts of the philosophy were valid theologically with morals that benefit of humanity, but the ideas were usurped by an opportunist named Chris Butler and used to cover up his real motives which are totally selfish and antithetical to any spirituality. A friend of mine has a good definition of evil; "that or whom which takes for oneself alone".

Quote
just-googling
There was also another little booklet called
"ALOHA SPIRIT - WHY DEAD?"
or something like that... This booklet was about how the American lifestyle had ruined the "Aloha Spirit" of the Hawaiian people... how tourism, industry, money etc. from the mainland had ruined the beatiful and simple way of life of the Hawaiian people. (Again, the theme of simple lifestyle which so contrasted the guru's own lifestyle just a decade or so later....)

Yes, I can confirm this. It was published around the time that Independents for Godly Government started, obviously to win the hearts and minds of the local people.

To whom it may concern:

"SoI Kills" has been banned from this message board.

And the "Cult of Butler" Web site article about this message board thread has been given a "Flaming Websites Award."

See [www.culteducation.com]

After being flamed and lied about from
the cult of butler people
for a year and for no reason,
I can't say I am sorry.
The flame rating of "simmering, but average" is perfect
for these attention mongers.

Moving on....

I also think that the "ALOHA SPIRIT - why dead?" may have been called something like, "No Make Die"?
tryin' to be all Hawaiian local speak...
It was also published in the Valley Isle paper run by CB follower Rick Reed.

It really appealed to the local people.
I think the brochure was given out free at Wayne Nishiki's market on Maui at one time.
Same riffs...
who could argue with the ideas of keeping the nice aloha spirit alive?
But no one really knew what or who was behind it all.

It was a very gentle force...
someone said A Very Gentle FARCE!

I recently read that native Hawaiians are trying to set up their monarchy again.
They hold meetings on the old Palace grounds that were stolen from Queen Liliokalani.
Wonder if they will succeed in petitioning the US Govt. to give back their land!
Or if Mike Gabbard would support that! LOL!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2008 05:11AM by Dassi.

Vera wrote: Most people do not know how easily they can be manipulated into ecstatic states. All Jagad Guru had to do was to stand up and lead a kirtan. Jumping up and down and periodically smiling at a follower and throwing a flower garland at him would drive the chanters absolutely wild!

Singing, dancing and playing music is a lot of fun in itself. Add to that the programmed fantasy that you are dancing with a messiah, well...that's a real rush! The stuff of legends told to future generations who will have no contact with guru.


Yes, that is so true. I remember when I first got into it; it was all chanting and foods then. I started getting disillusioned when all these theological craps stepped in. Things started to stop making sense. Like Dassi said it was so seductive then, the smell of incense and sounds of kartals and the Mridangam drums draw you into that airy-fairy, semi-ecstatic feeling as if you're in a small heaven in an imperfect world. And speaking of safe haven, I wish we could all speak freely now but remain cordial with one another. I just don't understand the meanness going on here lately. If we are trying to help coax people out of that group, by being mean we are simply affirming what Jagad Guru has been preaching about this world after all - that it is both dark and evil. That is basically the reason why people take shelter in groups like SoI in the first place - to get away from meanness, but find behind the facade, that serving the guru is even meaner than the place we live in. I hope this forum provides a more suitable haven for people who wish to contribute or simply vent out feelings without the fear of being accused as trolls. We all had different experiences; we don't need to agree all the time, but to be cordial to one another I think helps.


Vera wrote: Only that it was never real... and the flower garlands dry up and turn brown...

The rise of the elite force, the likes of prima-donna dasi were also responsible for turning the group into an institutionalized body of sort, IMO. They behaved like privileged exclusive club members and bully others for some simple issues like bringing in wilted garlands for the guru when we've been chanting there for five hours before the guru's arrival; how could it be possible for flowers to stay fresh that long, plus, the chanting hall was steaming hot from the huge chanting crowd? In the 70s it wasn't that snobbishly serious and there were inspiring people like Katyayani who I believe was one of the nicest people around. Even Jagad Guru then just wanted people to just chant, I really don't know how much of his own theology now that he seriously believes in himself. He used to make fun of his disciples, who take things so seriously, and I even witnessed him and Sudama in their private moments, they were fun to watch, talking about most of the mundane things you could ever imagine them talk about like motorcycles and music. Sudama's infectious laugh would drown out the room when Siddha cracks up one of his witty, filthy criticisms of people. Looking back, had we stayed that way, who knows I would have stayed. I'm not saying it's right, but it was too tough to let go. There were gentle moments, and many were swept off their feet by that gentle force, only to drop off and free fall from high.

I saw the recent picture of Siddha, he looks like Larry David now, the guy from "Curb Your Enthusiasm". Larry David in an interview, when criticized for making fun of his father's religion, he responded, "no I'm not, even if I was, so what? It's a comedy. Besides people should make fun of religion because it is so ridiculous - how people spend their lives; people have no idea, they go around as if it is a fact. If I believe that, I would keep it to myself." I'm paraphrasing.

Hey Zeusor, if that guy in the picture you sent that you mistook for Arjuna das and later retracted, I've a strong conviction that he could be CB. He looked very much like the young CB. He looked exactly that, he never shaved his head.

Hey Zeusor, if that guy in the picture you sent that you mistook for Arjuna das and later retracted, I've a strong conviction that he could be CB. He looked very much like the young CB. He looked exactly that, he never shaved his head.

Prajapati says that the devotee in question (Mr. Turtleneck) is either named Tirtha or Daruka; he could not recall which one specifically. Whatever the case, the image is of one of those two men who much later did the killing for the leader of the New Vrindavan cult.

My guess is that it's Daruka. Compare the photos. It looks more like him, especially in the cheekbones.

[www.harekrsna.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2008 09:53AM by zeuszor.

Quote
rrmoderator
To whom it may concern:

"SoI Kills" has been banned from this message board.

And the "Cult of Butler" Web site article about this message board thread has been given a "Flaming Websites Award."

See [www.culteducation.com]

Good. Thanks!

This fellow's rants seemed to be getting crazier and crazier over the last few weeks. He seemed to be attacking anyone who posted anything on this thread, FOR NO REASON AT ALL!

I can only assume that the poor chap has some sort of mental disorder (???) ... maybe some paranoid ideation, thinking that everyone is against him, and therefore his desire to fight back??? Just a thought, eh?

:)

Daruka's got a hooked nose, and tirtha is blonde. Unshaved head and turtleneck? Just look at the features. That guy is definitely CB.

here's tirtha and judge for yourself.