Prajapati says that he's sure that it's one of the NV goons and not CB.

But then again, PJ is a coy and playful type, God bless him. Perhaps he is pulling my leg and yours.

Personally, I do not know.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2008 11:13AM by zeuszor.

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dharmabum
Daruka's got a hooked nose, and tirtha is blonde. Unshaved head and turtleneck? Just look at the features. That guy is definitely CB.

You know, I think you are right! Look at this more recent photo of CB, also a profile shot of him looking to the right. The shape of the nose, the mouth; yes, I must concur. It's CB, all right:

[www.jagadgurusiddhaswarupananda.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2008 11:24AM by zeuszor.

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dharmabum
...and speaking of safe haven, I wish we could all speak freely now but remain cordial with one another. I just don't understand the meanness going on here ... I hope this forum provides a more suitable haven for people who wish to contribute or simply vent out feelings without the fear of being accused as trolls. We all had different experiences; we don't need to agree all the time, but to be cordial to one another I think helps.

Absolutely! There has been too much cruelty here that it reminded me of Jagad Guru Chris Butler all over again. NOT GOOD ENOUGH! NOT DOING ENOUGH! STUPID IRRELEVANT IDIOTS!

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dharmabum
There were gentle moments, and many were swept off their feet by that gentle force, only to drop off and free fall from high.

That is the thing that is difficult to understand and explain to people; you get swept away very quickly and far by a pleasant wind only to become loyal to the illusion. Chances are a lot of exes would still be there if they hadn't been traumatized out. If a young lady had been allowed to marry a gentleman she loved in the cult, well... she might be a senior member by now...

I would like to see studies and research done on the cult leaders themselves. Are there warning signs in childhood? Is it a developmental disorder? Do they realize they are doing wrong? I imagine it depends on many things.

No one is to blame for going up or falling from that height. No one can be judged for the way they need to handle their past experiences in a cult either. Some people never want to talk about it, some want privacy and distance, some work it out by talking and writing about it, some still have family members and friends in the cult, some want to lobby against cults, and some deal with it by making jokes.

so yes, Dassi, we'll move on...

Speaking of A Very Gentle Force, here is the original front and back cover.
Liner notes coming later...
The words on the back cover offer a bitter contrast to the reality...

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zeuszor

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dharmabum
Daruka's got a hooked nose, and tirtha is blonde. Unshaved head and turtleneck? Just look at the features. That guy is definitely CB.

You know, I think you are right! Look at this more recent photo of CB, also a profile shot of him looking to the right. The shape of the nose, the mouth; yes, I must concur. It's CB, all right:

[www.jagadgurusiddhaswarupananda.org]

That is NOT a recent picture. It was taken a couple of decades ago! The turtleneck kid really does look like young blood CB!

I said, a MORE recent picture. As in, more recent than the one from c. 1972.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2008 11:47AM by zeuszor.

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zeuszor
I said, a MORE recent picture. As in, more recent than the one from c. 1972.

well, without getting a good look at how far the ears stick out, I guess we'll never know for sure, eh. :)
But the turtleneck is a big clue...





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2008 01:48PM by Vera City.

deleted sorry for the mistake



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2008 03:19PM by zeuszor.

deleted

The operative words are GENTLE (deceptive) and FORCE (coercion). But to look at and listen to Siddha's album you would just see it as new agey music made by this nice spiritual guy. At the time, Jagad Guru Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa, founder of the Science of Identity cult, did not refer to himself as a pure devotee or messiah of nations - at least publicly yet. He had his senior followers spread that rumor for him very well. ACB was still "on the planet".

When the album came out Siddha ordered all of his followers to call the radio stations to request a song. This was to increase the air time and popularity of the music. Problem is that it wasn't that popular of a style of music. The D.J. got really pissed one night and yelled at one of the girls calling saying he was sick of how Siddha got all these young girls to call for him and he flat refused to play anything because of that. Decades later Chris Butler still employs his followers in the same way to donate money to political campaigns or write letters to newspaper editors in attempts to change public policy.

Needless to say the album was a flop. It cost him more money to make than it ever made. The weirdest thing is that followers were not allowed to "enjoy" it's music either. His own followers were told not to listen to it, but were allowed to play it for "new" people. Followers listened to it any way and there were a lot of bootleg copies. It was nice music, though Siddha's voice was a bit thin and weak. He used good studio musicians in L.A. on a lot of tracks that were not followers.

His next album, 'Mantra Electric' came out in response to criticisms of the style of music from Gentle Force (not rocking enough) and from the Haribol community that the album was too secular in its lyrics, not enough chanting. This cassette was produced completely with follower musicians.

Juxtapose what was written on the album and the following letters….

“A flower by nature is soft, sweet, and fragrant. So are we. We are tender sensitive living beings, but due to being covered by layers of material elements we appear hard, even to ourselves…we desire to love and be loved…”

“I want to feel love for you. I don’t want to see you or treat you as a “thing” or object to exploit or use…”

“I want to taste unlimited, eternal love. I am tired of living in a world of hard-heartedness…not just of others, but my own also. I am tired of living, yet being dead. I am tired of having conversations, but never communicating…”


Problems with the Loop 3 House on the Mainland.
Details of Chris Butler’s mania regarding his moving to the mainland from Hawaii.





Note reference to "foiling" the rooms.... more to come…

PJ insists that the man in the turtleneck is not CB. He says that he is certain of it. Here's the story.

CB joined ISKCON in 1972, back when he was a type of guru/yoga teacher type who lived in Hawaii and went by the name Sai. They were already chanting Hare Krsna as a group, CB's disciples, and when CB first met devotees and started reading Prabhupada's books, he straightaway joined ISKCON, and brought all of his disciples/students with him. So they were all initiated at the same time and CB's students/disciples then became his godbrothers and godsisters. PJ thought that he remembered that CB was given first, second, and third initiation all on the same day, too.

So then forward to 1975. CB was more or less forced out of ISKCON under duress in that year for openly opposing ISKCON's shift from a preaching model of public street chanting, like they were doing in the sixties and up until the mid-seventies, to the book distribution, "sankirtan army" Radha-Damodara under TKG days. So PJ recollects that the GBC (who were convened in India) elected to have CB assassinated for openly opposing the book-distribution, big-time fund raising model edict. When Prabhupada learned of what the GBC had decided with regards to CB, he was horrified, and ordered them not to have CB killed. So the GBC instead forced CB out under duress; some of CB's prior students stayed on with ISKCON and some went with him, back to Hawaii.

The next year, Visnujana Maharaja, who began the traveling Road Show (which later became the Radha-Damodara party under TKG) also critical of the shift in ISKCON policy under the GBC (public harinam to massive book distribution) and who was the last holdout of the old-fashioned public-chanting-and-dramas-in-the-park days, disappeared in India under mysterious circumstances. Some say he committed suicide, and some say he was done away with by some unknown hand within the GBC.

Point is, PJ tells me that he is sure that that man is not CB because of the fact that CB was initiated as a swami by Prabhupada from the day CB was initiated by him (1st, 2nd, and 3rd all on the same day) and in other words, he would not have been photographed in karmi clothes (as a part of ISKCON and as a swami ) in 1972. CB would have been wearing saffron and carrying a danda when that photo was taken. He joined in 1972 and brought a bunch of his own disciples with him. The photo of Mr. Turtleneck was taken in '73. Also, the GBC nearly had him killed in 1975 until Prabhupada stopped them, apparently. So then the GBC just forced him out and back to Hawaii he went, which is when and where and how that booklet was published. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Mr. Turtleneck is definitively Daruka. And if you go to the LA temple, where the photo in question was taken, you'll see that Prajapati prabhu is the man who modeled for the mural of Caitanya on the ceiling. That rendering of Caitanya on the ceiling there looks just like PJ.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2008 07:11AM by zeuszor.