To those of you who have complained about my choppy writing style that takes up too much space, here is an attempt at complete sentences!

Akhenaten, I think that we need to separate the people from the philosophy and the trappings of cults. One should not condemn a Muslim because others are committing atrocities in the name of Islam or a Catholic because evil Popes supported crusades and the Inquisition or a Vaishnava because people parading under that banner excuse all sorts of immoralities and crimes. I agree with you about ACB. Just because he needed “generals” to combat the materialism of the west is no excuse for him hiring criminals and perverts for the job. He himself admitted that he took on too many followers. He was limited. He made mistakes. He was not perfect, nor did he have a need for an army if he really had the “Supreme Person” in his chariot.

I question the whole system where a mere man considers himself perfect or imbued with divine powers. But, I also have met several really great human beings who have taught me, but never demanded the absurd loyalty and service required by Jagged Prabhufraud Chris Butler, aka FL. There are extraordinary teachers and maybe even saints out there who make the world a better place, but they do not act or live like FL.


Terre, there were many good people that I knew that remained in the cult. I had to drop all communication for my sanity and of course they had to drop me because I am considered a “demon”. This was the saddest thing for me. I first came on this forum looking for old friends. I have only found one, but have made friends with other “exes”. Some of the people I was looking for are known to be exes. I just have not found them here. (BTW – I did not reveal full names where a stranger could identify them-- as one person accused me of doing). I have found out that some of the people I liked very much have sold their souls and their own children out. This saddens me the most.

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just-googling

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atheist
The Honolulu Advertiser recently did a series of four articles about charities and regulation of charities in Hawaii.

The Science of Identity Foundation is one of the charities listed.

Here is the information provided for the Science of Identity Foundation:

Organization Science Of Identity Foundation
Address PO Box 27450
City Honolulu
Phone (808) 533-0277
Tax year ending 12/31/2004
[b:b7aae391ea]Total revenue $1,631,217.00[/b:b7aae391ea]

Thanks, Atheist, for this interesting piece of information.

I wonder how they get away with doing this?

1.6 mil per year is a lot of money, by anybody's standards.

:?:

Remember that figure does not even come near to the profits from all of his business enterprises - of course his name is not on any of those.....

Quotesman - the letter form ACB to Tusta was a great find. WOW!!!

All devotees of FL should read this. I remember that we were not allowed to address each other a "Prabhu" because this is "too ISKCON". And we were strictly forbidden from associating with ISKCON. They were demons and tried to assassinate our dear FL. I remember some ISKCON devotees coming to a gathering and being asked to leave. If we were ever caught going to the ISKCON temple, or any other association with "them" we would be "kicked out".

I also like ACBs little injection of humor regarding Mr. Nair. I remeber the Mr. Nair story and it was very funny.

The whole practice of SIF involves worshiping FL as a pure devotee and we are all kanistha-adhikari (lowest level devotees). ACB is clearly stating that this is wrong - ACB - "As soon as we distinguish here is a pure devotee, here is a non-pure devotee, that means I am a nonsense. Why you only want to be in the spiritual sky with Siddhasvarupa? Why not all? If Siddhasvarupa can go, why not everyone? Siddhasvarupa will go, you will go...."

So how can FL claim to be a spiritual master coming in a long line of spiritual masters if he is NOT following the instructions of his guru??????

And Quotesman - I get it and everyone else SHOULD GET THIS - how can one call FL "Pra'pad"???

Let's see - one of the main characteristics of a CULT is a charismatic leader who put people under his spell.....

FL seems to have long ago reached the point where his own delusions of grandeur have become entrenched in his mind as factual so I think he is absolutely convinced of his own divinity.

I knew that pure devotees are considered saktyavesa avatara. Was Christ also considered this or was he considered something else? I remember hearing something about this bit I can't recall.

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Dassi
To those of you who have complained about my choppy writing style that takes up too much space, here is an attempt at complete sentences!


Terre, there were many good people that I knew that remained in the cult. I had to drop all communication for my sanity and of course they had to drop me because I am considered a “demon”. <snip>..This was the saddest thing for me. . I have found out that some of the people I liked very much have sold their souls and their own children out. This saddens me the most.

Ho Dassi, I enjoyed your writing style. No complaints :)

I guess the reason I dont want to leave is because of exactly that, dropping communication with old friends. I don't care if they consider me a demon, because that is between me and Krishna, and we will settle that okay I think. Anyway, I am not so sure that people sold their souls out willingly. I think the greatest evil is stealing peoples hearts and souls under false pretenses. That is what saddens me the most. oh, yeah..the kids..... what a fscking mess that is going to be.

respects
terre

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hoax108
Quotesman - the letter form ACB to Tusta was a great find. WOW!!!

All devotees of FL should read this. I remember that we were not allowed to address each other a "Prabhu" because this is "too ISKCON". And we were strictly forbidden from associating with ISKCON. They were demons and tried to assassinate our dear FL. I remember some ISKCON devotees coming to a gathering and being asked to leave. If we were ever caught going to the ISKCON temple, or any other association with "them" we would be "kicked out".

I also like ACBs little injection of humor regarding Mr. Nair. I remeber the Mr. Nair story and it was very funny.

The whole practice of SIF involves worshiping FL as a pure devotee and we are all kanistha-adhikari (lowest level devotees). ACB is clearly stating that this is wrong - ACB - "As soon as we distinguish here is a pure devotee, here is a non-pure devotee, that means I am a nonsense. Why you only want to be in the spiritual sky with Siddhasvarupa? Why not all? If Siddhasvarupa can go, why not everyone? Siddhasvarupa will go, you will go...."

So how can FL claim to be a spiritual master coming in a long line of spiritual masters if he is NOT following the instructions of his guru??????

And Quotesman - I get it and everyone else SHOULD GET THIS - how can one call FL "Pra'pad"???

Let's see - one of the main characteristics of a CULT is a charismatic leader who put people under his spell.....

FL seems to have long ago reached the point where his own delusions of grandeur have become entrenched in his mind as factual so I think he is absolutely convinced of his own divinity.

I knew that pure devotees are considered saktyavesa avatara. Was Christ also considered this or was he considered something else? I remember hearing something about this bit I can't recall.

Hoax you got it exactly right on all points. ACB did on different occasions refer to Lord Jesus Christ as a shaktiavesha avatar. He said he was empowered to spread God Consciousness.

It is true what you say. We were all the eternal kanistha neophyte demon followers, while Siddha and a chosen few were the eternal pure devotees. Sorry but that is not Gaudiya Vasihnavism.

I did a little research into the theory there was a big plot to get FL. In fact no such big plot ever really existed except in the mind of FL. There were people in ISKCON who did not like FL no doubt. But that had more to do with FL’s attitude and his behavior. In fact what I found out was except for California and Hawaii, many devotees in ISKCON never even heard of a Siddhaswarupa. We were led to believe it was them and us, we were the good guys and ISKCON had gone astray and were all demons. It was the fight between good and evil. In fact up until recent times Siddhawarupa was mostly unknown throughout the world. Even today you can find many devotees in ISKCON that have no knowledge of a Siddhaswarupa. ACB himself said there was no plot to get Siddhawarupa, it is in the letter below. Also in the letter is the instruction that if a devotee could not get along it was the devotee who could not get along who was at fault, not others. But we were always taught it was those awful devotees in ISKCON that could not recognize a pure devotee like FL.

There were two devotees that ACB recognized as being very elevatated. One was Vishnujan Swami and the other Jayananda Prabhu. Both have passed on. Jayananda inspired everyone in their service. No one was out to get Jayananda because of his purity. In fact when Jayanada was asked by a godbrother how to make advancement Jayanada’s reply was, “ I don’t know about that, I am too busy serving Srila Prabhupada to worry about it.” Which of course was the answer to the question. Vishunujana also was an inspiration to all the devotees and he had no problem anywhere he went in ISKCON.

There was one name of a big ISKCON sannyasi that I was told was the main instigator to get Siddha. I will not name this man for obvious reasons. I found out the history of the said sannyasi and found out he had given not just Siddha trouble but many others. He threatened many others but never did anything to harm anyone. It was from this mans threat that the conspiracy theory and gossip spread among the followers of FL. In fact the said sannyasi’s bark was bigger than his bite and no devotees took him very seriously except Siddha and his fanatical followers.


I know there are many who left Siddhas cult who still believe all the gossip about conspiracies. But I think such persons have really not gotten over all their conditioning in the cult.

A person suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder sees conspiracies everywhere. And later on we see that FL even thought his own followers were trying to get him. When the bar hit the Queen Bee on the head Fl said it was possible some one set it up to fall on her and when the A.C. was not set right it was some kind of conspiracy by FL followers. When something was not cooked right, it was those demon cooks trying to kill him. I wonder what the latest attempt to get FL is.

Oh maybe it is what I am saying. Yea some disgruntled follow out to get FL. In fact all I am trying to do is wake up FL’s followers as to what they have gotten themselves into and hope they will see the light and get out of the cult.

Call it an act of contrition for my part in the cult.


Read the letter yourself, it can be found in the folio.










Los Angeles
26 August, 1972
72-08-26

My Dear Gaurasundara,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated August 20, 1972, and I am quite surprised to read it. This does not sound like you. All along I have been discouraged in every way by my Godbrothers, but still I have stuck to my duty, keeping my Spiritual Master always in front. Because there is some fighting or bickering amongst us, that does not mean that I should go away. If I have understood the order of my Spiritual Master rightly, then I must perform my duty under any circumstances and never one think of going away under disgust. I have appointed you to be my GBC representative in South America because I think that you are very much responsible and capable to do it, and I am very fond of you and your good wife Govinda dasi for helping me all along. So do not be disturbed or worried by some small thing, rumor, or misunderstanding.

There is no plot amongst our so-called big men against you or Siddha-swarup Ananda. That is childish.

Where have you got this idea to retire and simply translate books? That is not in our line. My Spiritual Master has given me the instruction to spread this movement all over the world and you are my good disciples, are helping me do this. Without your good help I could not have done anything, so practically you can take all the credit for spreading this Krsna Consciousness movement and fulfilling the prophecy of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. If there is some incident and I claim that no one is cooperating with me or no one will work with me, that is my defect, not theirs. The Vaisnava devotee must think like this. We should not find fault with others and criticize and go away, that is not the Vaisnava way. Better we should always be willing to offer all respects to others and consider them as our superiors always.
I have requested Siddhasvarupa Ananda to meet me in Los Angeles, but if he is not able to then I am coming to hawaii soon on my way to India and I can meet him there and take him with me to India. Meanwhile, do not be disturbed. Everything is alright. If I cannot rely on you to assist me in the GBC position, who can I rely on? So I beg you to reassure me that you will continue to help me in this way, and do not become withdrawn from your active role. Kindly relieve me of this great anxiety.

I want to retire now and simply concentrate on translating work, but how can I do it if I cannot give over the management of my society to you all my advanced senior disciples? If one moment you are willing and the next moment there is some small disagreement and immediately you all go away, how can I be calm in my mind?

I am going to India by first week of October and I shall stop over one night in Honolulu en route and we can discuss the matter further at that time.
Meanwhile, hoping this meets you in good health,

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

I was searching for more info and came across this. It was interesting, and the comments refer back to this forum

[pd-hawaii.com]

if this has been posted before, my apologies.

[b:517d90e285]THE STORY OF TOMMY GUN TULSI[/b:517d90e285]
(Or: A Really Crude Story)


Now Tommy Gun Tulsi was a really good kid
But she went and got brainwashed – oh, yes she did
Her guru, it seems, of the left wing got bored
Said defending America is pleasing to the Lord

And so they gave her the famous Tommy Gun
(Oh, my goodness – it was a really big one!)
And then they sent her off to the war
America needs crude oil – more, more, more!
And from the guru’s mouth more politics spewed
About USA’s rights to the world’s limited crude?

Now I hear she’s a bigwig in Washington
(Good for her – I’ll bet she’s having fun!)
And doesn’t have to fire that deadly Tommy Gun
But some people say it’s a really bad mix:
God and Country - Religion and Politics
Yet others say it's not really her fault
For, after all, she was born into a cult.

And as for the guru who sends people off to fight
Ask the Lord in your heart – Is that really right?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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terrenaut
I was searching for more info and came across this. It was interesting, and the comments refer back to this forum

[pd-hawaii.com]

if this has been posted before, my apologies.

Good find terre. The PDHblog article was right to the point. Masters at Bhakti Yoga DO NOT eat flesh or drink blood even symbolically. Catholicism and Bhakti Yoga DO NOT mix. That would be considered a hodge podge concocted mix. Be on one path or the other but don't try to mix the two. Be a Catholic that has some affinity or appreciation for Bhakti yoga or a Bhakit Yogi who appreciates Catholicism but do not try to mix the two. I am not belittling Cahtolicism, I am just saying the two paths are very different. Personally I wish Gabbard would not claim to be a Bhakti Yogi. Masters at Bhakti Yoga DO NOT condemn homosexuals or third gendered people, they DO NOT endorse exploitation of the earth to get what is needed to fuel our society i.e the war in the Middle East. They DO NOT send their daughters off to war. They do not condemn people like Madonna for wearing symbols of the Vaishnavas. They DO NOT condemn the makers of Xena for portraying Krishna in a positive light. They DO NOT LIE, LIE, LIE about their religious affiliations. They DO NOT get into politics and act like stink'n politicians.


Googling, nice poem. Keep um coming.

Concerning the Xena catastrophe, the following quote more accurately represented the mentality of most Hindus AND most Vaishnava.

“My husband and I enjoyed the show. It conveyed the philosophy of nonviolence and love very well. It brought Hindu ideas into the mainstream, reaching an audience that would not be exposed otherwise.” Lavina Melwani, editor of India Worldwide

[www.hinduismtoday.com]
Hinduism Today article^

The episode was very nice. I tried to find the clips of Xena and Krishna together but could not. If anyone knows a link please post it so everyone including devotees can see that Xena did not offend Krishna or Hindus or Vaishnavas.

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terrenaut
I was searching for more info and came across this. It was interesting, and the comments refer back to this forum

[pd-hawaii.com]

if this has been posted before, my apologies.

Thanks for posting this. I see that they mentioned a link to this thread on that blog. This thread seems to be turning a few heads around the world, not only in Hawaii with Sid's political foes, but also with ex-devotees, fringe devotees, and even current devotees who are wondering what the heck has become of their Fearless Leader.

:shock: