Good points googling. Sids political leanings are baffling. I mean WTF does he think he will accomplish? It would be impossible for any of his men to come out of the closet spiritually speaking. People do not like being duped or tricked even for their own good. I can just see Mike Gabbard as president saying, "Oh btw now that I have become prez. of these United States of America, I just want to let you know I chant Hare Krishna daily and worship an idol of Krishna." He would be impeached if not impaled by the masses.

But the scary thing is to think that Sid really does support the neo-con agenda. It appears by his lectures and talks that he does indeed. This is not the same young man we knew long ago. This person has morphed into something very, very scary.

I was just reading the Srimad Bhagavatam wherein it is stated a devotee of the Lord NEVER engages in politics. They do not even like discussing such topics much less getting involved.

".... In an assembly of pure devotees, there is no question of discussing material subjects like politics and sociology. In an assembly of pure devotees, there is discussion only of the qualities, forms and pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is praised and worshiped with full attention. In the association of pure devotees, by constantly hearing such topics respectfully, even a person who wants to merge into the existence of the Absolute Truth abandons this idea and gradually becomes attached to the service of Vasudeva." Jada Bharata

SB 5.12.13


This is evidence that Sid does not practice what he preaches. The acharya is supposed to be the perfect example, not the greatest hypocrite.


BTW I miss the old thread, wonder why it got changed to this????

we were told who to vote for in the last election, the candidate who was anti-gay. I was disturbed by that.

Yeh, Quotesman, I remember reading that verse from Bhagavatam many many years ago... and I remember thinking how this contradicted how the Fearless Leader was focusing so heavily on politics. I guess I turned a blind eye to it. I suppose all his flock of sheep are turning a blind eye to all this nonsensicality...

__________

I believe they changed the format of this forum to stop spammers putting their advertisements as threads. Now a person has to be a registered user and has to log in to be able to post... Otherwise, should be just the same as before... Seems like less people checking in, though (judging by the counter)

The following is a quote from Dassi on page 224.

“I find your defense of the Vaishnava religion and liberal take on things compelling and different. I'd like to know how widows are treated in your group. Are young women forced to marry or if a young woman is widowed, is she allowed to remarry or is she forced to join an ashram if the family can't afford to take her back? I know these practices are not widespread in India, but they do still happen. What is your mission's take on women and women's rights?”

Dassi, I thought you would be interested to see this. This is a Gaudiya Vaishnava Group in India, I do think they have some affiliation with ISKCON. ISKCON in India is not anything like it is in the west. It has a very good name in India. I do not belong to ISKCON and this is not a plug. I am just stating facts. ASBS is a hero in India.

Anyway see for yourself what the Gaudiya Vaishnava take on forced marriage is and what some Gaudiyas are doing about it.

Save our Girls!!!

[www.fflvrindavan.org]

[www.fflvrindavan.org]

Also check out “Womens Empowerment”, on this page.

I checked out www.fflvrindavan.org and found it very touching. God bless those Vaishnavas for their good works! Wasn't it wonderful seeing all those young girls with smiling faces wearing their tilak and in nice school uniforms.

Now imagine that - a spiritual organization helping the poor, needy, sick, and homeless. Isn't that one of the MAIN teachings of Jesus Christ?? And they are taking action with regards to child marriage in India. More good works.

It seems like most of the activity is SIF is geared towards selling veggie chips and yoga mats to fund the political campaigns of FLs puppets. And to what end? Surely none of the devotees know. How is this serving Krishna? It seems only FL knows for sure. I wonder if even Mike Gabbard knows. He seems like your typical trustworthy politician who lied about being Catholic (I'm sure that is pleasing to Jesus) and then switched parties.

Personally, I have a strong dislike for politics. No wonder all scripture says to just focus on serving God and avoid these mundane. material activities. You ever noticed that if a politician's lips are moving, you know he's lying! What a joke!

Wouldn't the devotees feel a lot better knowing that all the hard work they put into FLs various BUSINESS enterprises goes towards funding good works like the ones being done by www.fflvrindavan.org ? I know I would. But alas, I'm just a demon with no spiritual vision.....

New news from Australian School of Meditation and good news too for anyone that hoped to see Siddha pissed off by the power of one.

The illustrious Radha Krishna das has fled into the night and looks never to return. Has been gone for over a month now. His last point of action was to try to win the assurance that no more would be said online or otherwise about Fearless Leader (lol). For a while beforehand during August he was going around talking about getting contracts from lawyers drawn up and raising hush money. Now that he is gone it was pretty obvious that he was withdrawing for a while, claiming to be sick and experiencing a pretty unlikely series of family catastrophes (since we all know that family is so important to those people) The neophyte that lives under his house has taken over as the contact for ASM and is even teaching classes now which was a no-no from the man upstairs. Guess when your old timers are the ones bringing about controversy it's hard to know who you can trust anymore.

I know for a fact that there will be more stuff happening and I am doubtful that the new posters asking where is CR really want to know because they miss the website. The shit that has gone on over here the girl deserves a break. As a child of SIF I have been involved with getting my story documented for a couple of reporters. I have never done anything like this before but it seemed to me that they were very interested and willing to go ahead. Next time the sites are up they are going to be split into two one serious and one not serious with the same names as before. Realistically we can only focus on Australia and there is enough over here to worry about Brandon Raynor, Vege Chips, Firm-n-Fold, ASM and anything else that comes up. MAYA is going ahead but it will be in Australia and the fact that we are having an election right now and Xmas is coming gives us time to keep on planning. It sucks about Mike Gabbard but if noone over there wants to do anything then that's the way it's going to stay I guess. Not much that can be done now anyway. I tried to find out more by making some phone calls and apparently he hasn't said anything against gays for a long time. We have politicians like that over here too, Fred Nile and Pauline Hanson, real right wing f*ers. Our solution usually is not to vote for them.

I want to say hey to Rama das especially. That is a real shitty situation with your parents. I went through a similar thing myself being born into SIF in New Zealand. My family was split straight down the middle with a mum that wanted to stay with Siddha after word got around that he was married and a dad that left. My dad went straight into another guru that is debatedly more ethical than Chris Butler. Far as I can tell in particular his followers seem to be in love with the fact that he is indian. We weren't allowed to have any contact with my father whatsoever until mummy dearest got burned out a few years later. It was a shitty thing to do to their kids - total sell outs. It is frustrating as hell because the amount of dirt that these people have on SIF is unbelievable but their spiritual life is just so much more important. I went through the shit of being initiated, being in service, but now I guess I am a born again karmi (and loving it). Technically I was initiated when I was still a little kid when Siddha wanted to keep as many followers as he could. That was the sort of shit that he pulled here when he was trying on that paramahamsa story.

The devotees that I know gossip like crazy. I have heard all kinds of stuff about Siddha from my dad and some of his friends. The story goes that one of his followers in close service found out about the wedding and decided to lead others away to this new guru that he found. About forty families were split up over it. Really horrible stories. People being told to leave their wives and husbands, kids not being seen again. I don't want to say too much specifics because then it would be obvious which guru I am talking about. Maybe later.

The whole krishna scene is pretty much related, at least over here. All the communities are in the same place on and around the Gold Coast. New followers really aren't that common. LSD philosophy doesn't really appeal as much without the LSD I suposse. I can't be around my dad at all without hearing about what is going on. I am sure that he hopes that he can lure me back in by proving that I just had a bad experience with one guru. All the other gurus followers hang out here and on Gaudiya Repurcussions for exactly that reason. Wherever there is people that might actually believe in the blue dude you gotta catch em all. It isn't hard to know who is doing what and when. Siddha devotees go to other gatherings and stuff thinking that they are ninjas or something. Always wanting to play their little spy games and think they are so much ahead of everyone else. The latest story that I heard was that the idea for Vege Chips was actually stolen from another guru's devotee that wanted to do it for raising money to build a community near Murwillumbah. I know some kids that were working in it when it was just some guy's shed. Yeah kids. I also know some kids that were working on cartooning and some stuff that looked like Ninjai. It pisses me off especially because when I was a kid I had to work over at the school in PI.

Hey "I believed",

Thanks for the post. Great information. I hope you will provide more!!

It seems to me that you are suffering as a result of being involved in the cult of SIF. This is what happens in cults. Having these negative experiences and being left with regrets, anger, and disillusionment really shouldn't occur in a bona-fide spiritual environment.

I mean, if you are involved in a particular spiritual path and decide to leave, you should feel good about it and be supported in that decision. People will tend to gravitate towards what they feel is making them happy and/or giving meaning and purpose to their lives.

An organization is greatly influenced by the personality and attitude of its leader. We can see how FLs leadership is affecting his group.

Please post again IBelieved. And thank you!

Hey I Believed,

Great post. What took place with your Dad was appalling. I remember hearing how all those people who went to other gurus were demons. The thing is that has happened more than once. I know it happened in the PI and I am getting information it happened in other places too. But now when it happens they try to keep it secret. When all those devotees went to that Indian Guru (yes I know who you are talking about and the Guru is a first class one) it was not kept secret and everyone around the world heard the story of how all those people had become offenders. But if you look at the history of Gaudiya Vaishnavism it is not that uncommon that a devotee goes to another guru to learn things his own guru is not expert at or to another guru whose mood they are attracted to. A bona-fide guru does not condemn his followers for such activity, nor does he imply the other guru made a mistake. The particular Guru in question was so highly respected by ALL other gurus in the line that FL was careful never to mention him by name as he did with Narayana Maharaja. However FL own actions and the gossip he spread about all those people being demons can be considered another great deviation and shows total lack of respect for the Indian Guru who gave shelter to many who needed it. He gave shelter to many from the camps of gurus who did not live up to the standard, not just FL former followers. Many went to him and found in him all the qualities mentioned in the scriptures of how a guru is supposed to behave.

I did not realize there were up to 40 families involved. This really makes me disgusted.

One thing I would like to ask you. I had heard all those people who went to the Indian Guru were students not initiated disciples of FL. Were any of them initiated first by FL?

Thanks quotesman for the links.
That is exactly what I thought Vaishnavism was supposed to be.
Just hope these charities get the money to the people they claim to be helping...

Hey, IB,
tell us about the school in the PI.
Not much info here from kids who went there.
Did you get a good education?
Did you like the school?
Were you separated from your family for years?
What work did you do there?
What were the living conditions?
Were you allowed to question or have doubts?
What were you not allowed to do?
Were you treated kindly by teachers and peers?
Did you know of any physical or sexual abuse at the PI school?
Were there any kids with special needs or disabilities?
How are they educated or treated?
Were you raised to give them up for adoption?

Have you or your parents ever met Chris Butler personally?
Are you an adult now? Did you get skills to support yourself now?

I knew several families whose kids were told a parent was a demon
(common in SoI Hawaii)
for not following Chris.
Families were broken up and the kids
just had to take it -- believe it ---
while their hearts were torn apart
missing a parent who was not to be considered
a "real" parent...
and their minds f*cked over with crazy conflicting feelings and guilt.
Guilt if they loved their "demon" parent
or even thinking they were part demon too!
These kids have a hard time fitting into the world---
no culture, family, or society to support them
'cept the culture that hurt them -
pressure to conform is too strong -
hard to leave life long family and friends...
I can't even imagine....

And yes, atheist, there were men who took on more than one wife.
I know of three examples. None lasted.
Usually the older wife becomes despised and walks.
The kids went with the moms usually.
I'd tell you a lot more but I don't want to identify people.
But it did happen.
And it was justified by a paragraph written by ACB in one of his books.
And even the part about supporting them each in a different house - I
think only one guy could afford that -- it still didn't work out.
The women agreed to it too--
until reality set in.
BIG love wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
But
Chris Butler did not like it or encourage the practice.
In fact, he mocked the guys who did it.
In this I agree with him.
I know he tried to help at least one abandoned wife,
but she became one of his free labor slaves
after limping broken hearted to him.
When she wanted to re-marry
he called her a whore....go figure!?
so even his good deed turned to crap.

But who gets hurt most in all of these crazy sociological/religious experiments?!
The children.
That is what upsets me the most.