Quote
Dassi
Hey quotester!
So you are a breast man, eh :wink: Just kidding...
Very interesting stuff on the history of the Sari.
In the directors commentary on her movie "Water", she stated that the widows in the ashram did not wear cholis and one lady who played a very elderly widow was very uncomfortable with her costume (a white sari with no choli or bra).
I find your defense of the Vaishnava religion and liberal take on things compelling and different. I'd like to know how widows are treated in your group. Are young women forced to marry or if a young woman is widowed, is she allowed to remarry or is she forced to join an ashram if the family can't afford to take her back? I know these practices are not widespread in India, but they do still happen. What is your mission's take on women and women's rights?
There are different types of sannyasa. I know two bona-fide gurus who have given sannyasa to women btw.
Generally it is according to qualification. For most sannyasa is meant for old age, not before the age of 55 or 60. That is true for the Gaudiyas as well. But the sannyasa that Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati introduced was for the sole purpose of one pointed preaching. He actually re-introduced the saffron clad tridandi sannyasa. Prior to him it has not existed in the Gaudiya line for many hundreds of years. Prior to him sannyasa meant Babaji sanyasa, the white clad paramahamsa vesha (cloth). Such Babajis did not do much preaching and were not inclined to take many disciples. The type of sannyasa re-introduced by Sarasvati Thakur is actually more for young than old men as in youth one has much energy to preach. In India in all the different Gaudiya Maths there really have been very few fall downs in comparison to the west. But generally speaking sannyasa is not for every young man and most Vaishnavas do get married. However there are still young men coming forward who are qualified for sannyasa, who want to preach one pointedly, but not hoards of them. Under fire as was the case of ACB, in my opinion he did nothing wrong. Today however now that the name has been broadcast worldwide there is not a big push to make sannyasis.. Of course it is up to the discretion of the sannyasi giving sannyasa to decide who is qualified. And the reaction to giving sannyasa to an unqualified person will rest with the guru giving it.
It is true that sometimes in the Hindu world widows are sent to Holy Places, against their will. This is a deplorable situation and in most cases this springs from poverty. Where there is much poverty sometimes things dwindle to animal life, survival of the fittest. And now with the introduction of western culture the situation is not getting better. As now more and more Hindus are becoming overwhelmed with material desires. Therefore this has not helped the situation with widows.
I have not seen the movie Water. But I will try to see that one, thanks. I do know some Vaishnavas who are want to do a documentary on the current situation with widows. Their intent is to pressure the government into making such forced practice of abandoning widows to ashrams against their will, a crime. They also want to do films on female genocide in India and forced sati. These things are all perverted adharmic (anti religious) practices. By Vedic standards baby infanticide is murder as is abortion. Abandoning family members is also adharmic. Forced sati is murder plain and simple. The intent is to give Vedic evidence these practices are wrong and to pressure the government to enforce existing laws against such crimes. Actually it is every Vaishnavas duty to protect women.
Do not forget that it was Bhaktisiddhanta who faced off with the caste Hindus proving their method was not Vedic. There was a famous debate in 1911 where he faced off with the caste Hindus. The debate is now legendary. Using Vedic references he proved the caste system was Adharmic, against Vedic principles. Since that time the caste Brahmins have left the Gaudiyas alone. Prior to that they harassed and even plotted killing them. But the caste Brahmins still exist. They just turn the other way when they see Gaudiyas now.
There is much work to be done to correct the situation. But if you read the Veda you can understand this is what happens in Kali Yuga. There is a reference in one of the Puranas that states the biggest demons of all in Kali Yuga appear as priests, the religious, Brahmans etc, even they pretend to be Vaishnavas, (wolves in sheeps cloth).
There is no law of the land in India that states widows cannot remarry and I know some who have. But generally due to social convention in India most widows do not try to remarry. If the widow has a son it is his Dharmic duty to take care of his mother. And as I stated it is extended family members duty to care for her if there is no son. If the women widowed young she should remarry IMHO.
However,
Most Indian men will not marry a women who has been with another man. So this is a problem. It is just not acceptable to most Indian men to marry a non-virgin. However this is changing quickly due to western influence. Chastity and shyness for women are still considered virtues in India. But this is changing very quickly and now more and more women are taking the roles of western women. Don’t forget India has already had a woman Prime Minister. And not long ago the common people elected Sonia Ghandhi, a Christian foreign born woman. She had to step back due to political intrigue, but the fact is the people elected her. You may also be surprised to find out 98% of the Indian population votes. It is the worlds largest democracy.
There is an interesting story. A man approached Gaura Kishora das Bahaji to get his blessing after being married. Babaji could tell the man was the type who would exploit his wife so he told him something like, (paraphrasing here), “it is good you have married a Vaishnava woman, because she is a Vaishnava you should serve her hand and foot, make sure she is given everything she desires, and be sure you cook nicely for her,” of course the man was not very happy with the blessing.
Traditional roles means that women are treated as Mothers to be taken care of, honored and respected. To disprespect any mother is Adharmic. In fact the women who take these traditional roles have very little anxiety. They are cared for and not forced to take care of themselves. It is an anxiety free life for a woman in a traditional Vaishnava family setting. Of course now a days where both man and woman have to work hard to live these traditional roles for woman have to be modified. But in a Vedic society the woman should not be forced to work hard like a man. Her primary duty is to make the household peaceful and to nurture and raise children. Such women do indeed run the house and they have the most power within the family. But externally it appears to be the opposite. Household life is for the propagation of the human. It is for the purpose of raising good progeny. That is the Vaishnava take on family life.
But these roles for woman are not all black and white either. Shortly after Mahaprabhu left the planet a situation arose where there was a woman, Srimati Jhanavi Thakurani who became head of the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya. At that time everyone knew there was no one more qualified than her and she took the role as ahcarya and guru. But she did not push to be a guru or clamor for position. She had to be persuaded by the Vaishnava men to please accept the position. Actually that was one of her qualifications to be the head, she was not clamoring for position.
The women I know who follow these age old customs are the happiest I have ever seen.
It may also be noted that when Jiva Goswami, the Tattva Acharya took over as head of the sampradaya when ever anyone referred to him as the guru or acharya he would always say something like, "I am not the guru, I am the servant of all vaishnavas". It is said one who thinks himself gu-ru is no better than go-ru, goru means a cow or animal.
I hope I have not made a mess of trying to convey what I know about the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition.