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emntk
http://www.molokaiadvertiser-news.com/MAN_4-19-06_.pdf

Dr. Willis Butler Jnr (Physician, Activist, Author) had lived on Molokai and currently lives back in Kailua Oahu if he is still alive. He was alive at 87 in April 2006 so some of the dates Cara posted had refered to Willis P. Butler Snr.

BULLSEYE emntk! All the facts match up. Molokai childhood. Activist father. Toothpaste smile. And he really does resemble his mother. I'm getting the book.

I loved his father's quote, "We won't come to your revolution if we can't laugh and dance."

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zelig

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emntk
http://www.molokaiadvertiser-news.com/MAN_4-19-06_.pdf

Dr. Willis Butler Jnr (Physician, Activist, Author) had lived on Molokai and currently lives back in Kailua Oahu if he is still alive. He was alive at 87 in April 2006 so some of the dates Cara posted had refered to Willis P. Butler Snr.

BULLSEYE emntk! All the facts match up. Molokai childhood. Activist father. Toothpaste smile. And he really does resemble his mother. I'm getting the book.

I loved his father's quote, "We won't come to your revolution if we can't laugh and dance."

Yeeeeehaaaaaa! Great work, emntk! How do you get all this info?? Just googling, I suppose :!:

Yes, I would like to get hold of that book as well - no doubt it will give info on the children as young rascals! Chris stealing candy from the local store!! Chris turning green when he smokes his first cigar!!! Chris meets God in the white light!!!! Keep tuned, folks, this is getting interesting!

:wink:

:!: Better yet, the parents of God's only representative on Earth probably made love for the purpose of PLEASURE rather than begetting children! :!:

:!: :!: :!:

Will Butler's book, [u:0eb3195c0f]Barbara; Memoir of a Love Affair[/u:0eb3195c0f] is on Amazon.com.

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maui
Cara I have a question for you: In ISKCON there is an ongoing phenomena of many members of ISKCON regularly leaving ISKCON either as a full time member or congregational member to go and become a follower of an elderly Indian guru within the tradition such as Narayana Maharaja, Govinda Maharaja, Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaja, etc. Does this happen with Siddha followers as well?

My understanding is that this guru and his followers have a specific mission in reaching out to those who can no longer accept the bogus qualities of their former gurus and challenging such gurus on the basis of Scripture. I know that they also worship Yoga-Narasingha, the most relaxed and approachable form of the protector of devotees. I know that this guru is heavily criticised by Siddha disciples and I am fairly certain that it was followers of this line that led to a significant number of followers leaving SOI in the Phillipines. Based on a summary of this guru's teachings imparted by a friend of mine who was born to disciples he does not condone criticism of Siddha or anyone else except based on ontological deviations and seeks to engage in public debate whenever possible. This is in accordance with Scripture that one should seek to defeat those who they see as offensive in intelligent debate - or retreat (we know which option SOI prefers).

Very well spoken in your last posts Maui. Do you happen to know if there is any truth to the rumors I heard from a Siddha devotee that Down To Earth sells eggs and other non prashadam food items?

:!: Sex for pleasure?? What will they think of next? :wink:

Chris' first cigar :lol: I guess it is too much to hope for that he used to entertain visitors with impressions of the Wizard of Oz (or even better Dorothy :o )

No Amazon in Australia! We're going to have to Dymocks it.

I can imagine Siddha's minions being sent out to push his father's book to the top of the best seller list trying to buy up all the copies :lol:

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zelig
BULLSEYE emntk! All the facts match up. Molokai childhood.

Oh great to hear! I thought I'd lost it on the Molokai detail. There is also a Bruce Butler who works in local politics Oahu. He also is quite the scientist. Does anyone know if he worked in a scientific field?

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just-googling
How do you get all this info??

Actually this pdf file I have been trying to open for a couple of days. PDF links often don't work for me and the html versions almost never do. Use IE and a google search bar which highlights specific words and automatically scrolls to each instance one at a time. This means you do not need to read or even scroll through many pages that are irrelevant. I find it indespensible when searching for information.

Would be interesting to find a link to the Bushes. One of the sites that Cara found suggested that the Butler name is linked to english royalty. That might explain Wai Lana's husband.

Has anyone heard of these two other siblings or children raised by the Butlers?

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zelig
BULLSEYE emntk! All the facts match up. Molokai childhood.

Oh great to hear! I thought I'd lost it on the Molokai detail. There is also a Bruce Butler who works in local politics Oahu. He also is quite the scientist. Does anyone know if he worked in a scientific field?

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just-googling
How do you get all this info??

Actually this pdf file I have been trying to open for a couple of days. PDF links often don't work for me and the html versions almost never do. Use IE and a google search bar which highlights specific words and automatically scrolls to each instance one at a time. This means you do not need to read or even scroll through many pages that are irrelevant. I find it indespensible when searching for information.

Would be interesting to find a link to the Bushes. One of the sites that Cara found suggested that the Butler name is linked to english royalty. That might explain Wai Lana's husband.

Has anyone heard of these two other siblings or children raised by the Butlers?

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emntk
Oh great to hear! I thought I'd lost it on the Molokai detail. There is also a Bruce Butler who works in local politics Oahu. He also is quite the scientist. Does anyone know if he worked in a scientific field?

Anything is possible. A lot can happen in 20 years. The Bruce I knew (and admired, I might add) was a scruffy surfer bum. Always wore sandals, shorts, and a crumpled, dirty Hawaiian shirt. He never seemed to need to work. He was shorter and not as handsome or charismatic and ethereal as his brother. He had more testosterone and liked women. Bruce was earthy with a wicked, black sense of humor. He used to point out a lot of the hypocrisies in the group. He always made me laugh. He used to make all the pure bramacharini girls uncomfortable with his comments. He would pop in and out of CB's life. At one point he really tried to be a follower, bowing down to his brother for awhile and then disappearing. They would even fight and have words with each other. Many of CB’s followers were very critical of Bruce, but CB never put him down publicly.

The last time I saw him during this time period was when he was sneaking off to the McDonald's burger joint down the street from ‘Down to Earth’ in Honolulu. There was a big picture window, so it was easy to see him as I walked by. I walked in to say “hey”. I didn't give a shit if "devotees" saw me there. (I had already made my plans to leave). And neither did he. He said the French fries and ice cream were vegetarian and that's what he was eating. He just thought the group was too "heavy" for him. People would try to get close to him because he was god’s rep’s brother. That bothered him. But they would find out he had a disturbing and irreverent bite and sting to his personality, along with a loyalty. “Bros before hoes”. He was a very intelligent guy and it would not surprise me if he went back to college and got into science, or on the other hand politics with his brother. It’s possible he finally “surrendered” to his bro. Everyone thought he was older because he looked so wind and sun damaged. I think he was younger, but I could be mistaken.

I liked Bruce for the same reason I liked Sudama Vipra Swami so much. They both were guiless truth sayers. No tact, no diplomacy. Comments were straight and often to the bone. I was always so busy “serving” CB that I didn’t get to know them as well as I would have liked.

Also, the Louisiana connection confirms W. Butler. CB was born in Louisiana. I am really curious if WB mentions CB at all in the book.

I shudder (and laugh) to think about the husband winning contest that would have raged among the bramacharinis to net Sri Guru's brother. :lol:

I heard Siddha talk once about men and women being kept seperate giving the example that a bull in a cow paddock goes about having sex with all the cows. What a charming analogy. Of course that does not apply to himself :roll:

My devotee database is getting quite extensive and complex as I get more names and this one was married to that one who was second wife to this one and divorced to marry that one. I need a computerised database to keep track of it all. The more I find out the more devotee life makes the Desperate Housewives appear chaste.

Apparently Tusta was married three times, once in the temple, once to Jackie Crisfield (Jaganatha dasi) on the Gold Coast, apparently for citizenship reasons so not a lot of people know about it (whoops.[/color:8077015f58] About the only thing about SOI I will never reveal is my sources) and then to an asian bride just like JG around about the same time as Wai Lana came along. That would put Jaganatha onto her third marriage now as well. I always wondered what a fire sacrfice for a KC marriage was like and wondered what got burned. Now I know in SOI it is your previous marriage certificate.

I imagine that ISKCON keeps marriage records on devotees somewhere so I can confirm or discount the intrigue of Siddha falling down with his secretary (unfortunately PADA has not responded to my e-mail as the source of this, but they must have gotten the info from somewhere)

The reality gives adds a whole new dimension to the concept of blind faith. It is a stretch to justify your guru being married to someone else's wife with the ideal that there is no better person that she could be married to, can't judge a pure devotee etc. but to watch Bren absolutely killing himself with guilt over being divorced and Srila Prabhupad says blahblahblah and about how evil it is for kids to be raised in broken homes. To have these idiots trample all over my life with their self righteousness RKd especially (who has gone very quite) when they have as much morality between them as the average barn cat.

This is a family snapshot of who you will surrender your life to as JGs representatives on the Gold Coast. Do you [i:8077015f58]really[/i:8077015f58] want morality lessons and mandatory social approval to have a spiritual life from these people?

Vrndarvan dasi who runs the GC meditation and yoga centre, married already with a daughter before moving onto Charu das who it was an open secret among the devotees had an affair with a single mother who was trying to be a devotee in the mid 90s. Of course it was her that was ostracised while he still parades around dispensing wisdom as a disciple of ACB and JG. When C and V got married in ISKCON ACB told C that V was a just fragile devotee woman and he would need to accept responsibility for her and vow to never leave her before he would bless the marriage. The eldest daughter from the first marriage got with RKd after he heard a lecture where Siddha said that male devotees should not avoid the responsibility of marriage (I'm willing to bet that is how the butcher made disciple too). Another daughter slept with every willing male devotee, and has the kids to prove it, including one that she is hiding from his father in Hawaii. Of course he got ostracised and evicted from Lord Caitanya's last Appearance Day. Another open secret was that an older male killed himself after she refuted his advances from the guilt that he was dirty minded for having made them. This was a girl where the older women devotees used to bring jumpers to wear at kirtan because she always dressed so revealingly. The third daughter got herself pregnant to the first guy that came along within six months of meeting him. Refused to marry him because he couldn't pay for the lavish ceremony that she wanted and a $400 diamond wasn't big enough. Then walked out on him after just under 5 years. Then as soon as he found someone else (yeah it was me) decided to call 'responsibility for life' with the back up of her disciplic family. So of course then I was ostracised [i:8077015f58]and[/i:8077015f58] fined. Beautiful isn't it?

Yes ok Cara you talk about everyone else's business but what about yours? I'll be balanced. I was married to one guy from when I was two months past 18 to just before my 25th birthday. I left him because he was an abusive bisexual that wouldn't let me have a picture of Krishna in the house and I have been celibate for almost three years, the plan being to get married, first choice being we all know who as if he would ever wake up to the fact that association with devotees is good for being a devotee and association with hypocrites is good for being a hypocrite. Yeah I doubt it too.