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cultreporter
36. Tired of being stigmatised for your paranoid delusions or mental illness? - finally you can [b:e09178fef6]wear your tinfoil [/b:e09178fef6]hat/germ mask with pride, and rather than getting strange looks other devotees will actually respect you for it.

This WIZARD OF OZ analogy gets deeper and deeper - First we have the straw man, and now the tin man, the wicked witch, and of course the Wizard himself!

Yes, and Oz is slang for Australia!

:)

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In this day and age, cutting out someone's tongue would not stop the offences coming - you would have to [b:923a9ccf24]cut off their hands [/b:923a9ccf24]so that they could not type this information onto the internet.

And even then they can learn to type with their feet :wink:

Just Googling - I hope the wicked witch in the analogy is not me! I much prefer munchkin!

I don't really get the whole sanyassi deal with JG. Again it seems to be another explicit proof where one is forced to choose either what ACB or JG says because the two do not go together - someone who is fallen down cannot be a bonafide guru.

I think Siddha has reverted to the original form of the vedas passing it along through oral tradition. Much easier to get away with suspect doings when there is no paper trail. :wink: And he can always blame his disciples for getting his messages wrong if they come under any scrutiny.

Another little recollection of Siddha : Last Sunday I went for a visit to the ISKCON temple in Sydney to get some books that reference Siddha and my BTG archives CD. I actually met a monk there who knew of Siddha very well and was telling me that he had associated with some of his followers in 1999 when the prediction was made that the world would end at the change of the millenium. He was telling me that people took this so seriously that they actually sold their homes and businesses and gave up on any activity to progress in life, such as education because what would be the point right?

The follower that he had close contact with must have been either new or particularly compassionate, because eventhough he was an ISKCON monk they took pity on him and the other monks he lived with when they said they were making no plans to survive the ensuing carnage and bought them the whole list of supplies detailed in Siddha's letter on the subject. He said that eventhough they accepted the offerring they sat eating porridge for months into the year 2000 with all that food in the cupboard because they felt too guilty to eat it.

I didn't much feel like joining in the chanting when I was there. I noticed that they just stick to the maha mantra - even in front of new people! :o I was sitting out in the foyer waiting for the bookshop to open and true to the rumors I have heard ISKCON devotees are a lot friendlier and approachable than the 'Haribols'. One came up to talk to me about my interest in KC and I mentioned being a former student of Siddha to which he replied "Well Krishna still loves you. Him I don't know, but you will be forgiven."

I am trying to decide whether it might be worth going back to see if I might get any more info.

I agree, the Wizard of Oz is a modern political drama. Oz for Australia is not inappropriate as we have Dorothy (Cult) in Australia who was thrown out her home and cast into the wild winds with naught but .... (?). You have mentioned some of the characters or elements and another to be considered is the ultimate power of the magical red shoes. I will leave that one up to you Googling, or others, for the time being.

Yes, anyone who says that cults don't have benefits is a fool.

38. If Siddha departs his earthly sandals (aka pops his clogs), then you might actually have to start thinking for yourself. For fucks sake, that would be most unbeneficial.

Also what if you don't have charisma? Then you are stuck.

40. Lots of fun dancing and loud clapping. Not like the Christians, for example, because the way they do it, jus not cool. Cults have a different more cool method for fun dancing and loud clapping. Cults also have guitars and drums, but the Pentecostal Christians these days are getting wise and doing the same damn thing. So cults are now getting into animation (technical expertise good but script dismal due to lack of schooling).

41. Secret special greeting: just like a secret society: "Haribol". But wassat that “Shabbat Shalom” (ehh, …?) or "Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh." (mus be terrorists).

42. When everyone is kneeling on the floor worshipping the photo of the boss in front of you, and his boss, and the boss of his boss, you get to peep around and see who is opening their eyes when they shouldn't be. That's also fun.

43. No one minds if you are an imbecile. Siddha probably would, but hey, he hasn't ventured forth among his flock, especially the ones in the barbaric lands for eons, so you get to be an imbecile if you so choose or if you have no choice because that’s jus what you are.

44. Everyone's nice, even to imbeciles.

45. A coat of credibility to cloak your irresponsible attitude to life, yes, even to kiss off the people that most cared about you, for instance, your family (who haven't yet caught onto your amazing discovery of the meaning of life, or more accurately the non-meaning of life).

46. You don't have to try hard at anything, anything at all, for the pursuit of best efforts is for dullards who are grinding the material wheel (aka circle) that has no end.

47. You too can also have a serious look on your face like the rich dudes and people who have actually done something constructive with their lives, because you are serious about your spiritual life or seriously getting serious about it.

I don't wholeheartedly or with a clear conscience diss the boss or the SOI, for they are no more and no less than most organized religion today or decades ago, or centuries ago (but it is a pure lie if they pretend a superior level, human nature confirmed by the hypocrisy that has been so eminently displayed here).

Some of the blame must surely lie with his flock for being such fools, for excusing themselves from living and embracing life, suffocating others for the sake of their foolishness, such as their children and family members.

Such fault lies not all at the feet of Siddha, give the dude a break: he bred a "company" that is making good healthy profits keeping expenses at a minimum eg low or no salaries, has made excellent sales willingly purchased by its members, and effectively avoided greedy government tax snares. What’s more he has reared a flock of narrow minded hypocrites that could easily equal or maybe even outdo the Christian folk, and that’s not an easy thing to do.

The convenience of shifting the personal blame for your actions under the magic carpet of a cult is not going to wash, and whether it is a mat that flew is debatable.

Members just have to finally admit that they are as narrow minded, selfish, material and as hypocritical as the next worldly self indulgent liar. We might say that we do that already but we need to go one step further, and confess that we are as gross as the next lard ass fat guy or gal who stuffs a McDonalds hamburger down his or her throat, with sauce dripping down his or her gills.

For instance: at a bare minimum: hypothetically pursuing sunken treasure boats here there and everywhere to get the worldly profits, credit card fraudery and other creative scams that we can’t mention here, throwing a gal out in the street with no clothes so that she has to go and beg at a thrift shop to get something to get warm, all part of the continuing story of wetting wicks around the course, the unfortunate wimp making the mistake of getting exposed when his brothers are all doing exactly the same thing: swopping and dropping people like used tissues, and of course our own intoxication: stuffing as many drugs down your gullet as possible when you are younger but excusing yourself from this in later years, and throwing crap at the younger generation for now doing exactly the same thing we did a few decades ago.

If the previous husband of the Guru’s wife, gave her up willingly, then he is a fool who should not have been with her in the first place. This does not excuse the Guru if he has done wrong (we are not to judge), but who of us is totally innocent?

You, and you alone and each of us must answer for our actions ultimately.

Am I talking to you?

"You talkin' to me?"

“Yes, no, maybe”

Then who the hell else are you talkin' to? You talkin' to me?

“Guess so”

“Well I'm the only one here."

… peace with you Guru and your family.

For the people of both sides are here and all are witness to this place, we await your action. If you cannot defeat the offender with rational and correct argument as it is said in the Scripture and on the field of Kuruksetra, then you must retreat according to Divine Law.

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cultreporter
Just Googling - I hope the wicked witch in the analogy is not me! I much prefer munchkin!

I suppose the ASM would see you as the Wicked Witch, Reporter!
:(

From our point of view, though, maybe VD would be more suitable for the part! :wink: What, with toe nails and ear wax in the cauldron, all she would need is the big black hat!
:D

Typically there are two sides to every story. This is the side which is being relayed around the Gold Coast via the typical vehicle of gossip. It is a small world here we have made for ourselves and difficult to keep secrets.

I know that the wimp as you seem to call him here (his name is Brendan) was strongly encouraged by Radha Krishna das to phone Cara and attempt to sweet talk her into taking the website down shortly after it first went up. They were very confident that he could present her with "if you really loved me you wouldn't do this to me would you?" and try to use the exact same feelings that she had been preached at for months have no value and do not really exist (as we have all experienced) against her.

She didn't fall for it and told him that the only interest that she had in talking to him was if he was going to leave SIF. Of course he has no interest in doing this, so they switched to the "I'm back with the mother of my child, don't you think that is for the best?" approach. Of course she knows it is hardly for the best for a child to be raised in a home where the parents are constantly fighting and breaking up.

When they were together they were one of the favourite subjects of gossip with the Doyle girl parading around telling everyone how unfortunate she was to have gotten pregnant to him and ending up stuck with him. He has spent a lot of time not being able to fit in very well and being treated as an outcast by many. Lately some have rallied around him, but it is certainly not out of any feelings of compassion or friendship. No-one is prepared for him to leave as he knows a great deal that could be very damaging, particularly if he was likely to go on to share his life with someone who has made it their business to expose SIF, which he most likely would. Assuming that she was able to forgive him.

Truth be told they would be together if not for the involvement of disciples. Cara was judged very harshly because the last time that she attended a meditation class, which was around August, (to the best of my memory) afterwards she refused an invitation to go to the Gold Coast chant by saying 'they have their own team there'. This much is true. Srila Prabhupad I am sure does not imagine what goes on with His disciples on the Gold Coast, and I am sure that if He did He would put a fast stop to it. They are a challenge to His authority. Read into that what motivations you will. There are two boys and a girl from the family in Hawaii gratifying themselves and making as many connections as possible.

Surely it is a huge sacrifice to make to have your children so far away from home, and the mother works very hard to support them there, but at the end of the day the payoff will be immense. Really Srila Prabhupad should not be suprised when He realises this, if He is not well aware of it already, since they are original disciples from ISKCON, initiated by His Divine Grace, so they have as much loyalty as can be expected.

I know that the wimp has been crying on various shoulders about his present situation and that he was devastated the first time he lost Cara. The story then was, being far more serious than him, and being harassed constantly she was tired of being cast as a whore, and a liar whenever she replied to incessant questioning that they were not sleeping together, that she left. He begged her back with promises that they would properly be together. The difficult thing was telling his ex partner, and more importantly her whole family (they are a team remember) what his decision was. The reply was that if he wanted to lose any chance to see his son go right ahead. He is certainly not well off materially and the decision was based solely on he would not be able to afford to support two wives or continue to spoil his son if other children were to come along.

They laugh at and gossip about him behind his back as they always have. He is a failure at spiritual life they say, a hanger on, that managed to get lucky by impregnating a girl whose morals are far from Vaishnavism. It may well look like he is the user of the piece, he may well believe this himself, but if anyone is the loser of the situation it is him.

Now the police are involved, but they are not playing along. They do not accept the concoction that Cara has done anything wrong, and want to ask questions about SIF. People are still trying to dismiss that a website and a prescence in this forum are no big thing, but they are getting more afraid. There has been talk about that perhaps they should just allow nature to run it's course with the relationship that never was, but there is no way that Radha Krishna das will concede that he made a mistake. The hope is that with her ill health she will burn out, that any effort to inform will fade away and eventually be forgotten about. She is wished dead on a frequent basis. There are certain devotees that are not ashamed to talk of hurting her. I know for an absolute fact that she has been harassed. One devotee male sent her very graphic e-mails talking of rape and mutilation which he was not at all ashamed of showing to some others. No-one wants to show their true face it would seem. I know that Cara was fined an amount of thousands which she somehow managed to pay. It is up to her if she would want to share the specifics of this, but my point is I don't think that even he knows how badly she was treated behind his back and how much she would have sacrificed for the promise that they would let her see him again.

Off-line information has started to appear around the Gold Coast and Brisbane defaming ASM, SIF and Srila Prabhupad. Not everyone is aware of this yet, but if they are following this forum they now will be. I certainly do not want to be the bringer of such information to anyone in person. As we have already established I am a coward.

I have looked at my situation and thought of my family and realised that the best course of action would be to leave SIF. I pray that others who read here will do the same and protect themselves and their children.

Cara, I was not directly involved with your trouble but I pray for you and that you still remember Nrsima. Truely He must watch over you, that alone is a frightening prospect to those here. Haribol.

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just-googling

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DharamRakshak
We have been taught that in the face of opposition, besides [b:bee767d018]cutting out someone's tongue[/b:bee767d018] (yes it does say this in the Scripture)[/color:bee767d018] that we should either walk away to prevent hearing the offences and having our own consciousness effected or that we should defeat the offender with rational and correct argument.

In this day and age, cutting out someone's tongue would not stop the offences coming - you would have to [b:bee767d018]cut off their hands [/b:bee767d018]so that they could not type this information onto the internet.

Someone should update the scriptures in this matter. Also the scriptures should be updated about what a sannyasi can do - apparently nowadays a sannyasi can steal the wife from another devotee and marry her.
:?

EXACTLY! I was thinking this last night. I imagined actually having my tongue cut out, but then I realised I would still be blogging it up.

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TheTruthAsItIs
Such fault lies not all at the feet of Siddha, give the dude a break: he bred a "company" that is making good healthy profits keeping expenses at a minimum eg low or no salaries, has made excellent sales willingly purchased by its members, and effectively avoided greedy government tax snares. What’s more he has reared a flock of narrow minded hypocrites that could easily equal or maybe even outdo the Christian folk, and that’s not an easy thing to do.

The convenience of shifting the personal blame for your actions under the magic carpet of a cult is not going to wash, and whether it is a mat that flew is debatable.

No one is going to give the dude a break.

These are not nice people. They have collectively ruined many people's lives and just because Siddha and SOI have profitted materially does not give Siddha impunity.

That is complete nonsense Truth.

And still makes me question your moral turpitude and/or current involvement with the cult.

I became involved with SOI kids at 13 years of age who were my best friends at the time. The opportunity arose to leave home at 16 and join the cult to avoid the daily abuse I received at home. For several years I came and went from the cult mostly to see my friends but my doubts of the group were too strong to keep me there for long periods at a time.

I didn't even see a small amount of the things I have read here. My lack of interest was mostly on a philosophical level. The scams and horrible actions of Siddha and disgusting queer behaviour that goes on behind the scenes would have driven me away long before.

I do not feel guilty of being a blind follower of Siddha and still wish to know why you paint the cult as being sterile and tame. How are you benefitting from making the culpability of Siddha and SOI seem minimal?

The only reason I can conjure is that you are materially gaining from this.

[b:9312f09831]Cult urinal leaving makes for benefit of life[/b:9312f09831] 8)

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Rama Das (slave name)
The way that Butler instructs his followers to disregard their personal problems is so terrible.
You will only become more weak, more helpless, more dependant and more fractioned... you will be a work of disaster in progress.
Of course the idea of escaping outta here will be more appealing.

Well spoken Rama. To Butler apologists; why is it so hard to see how his misanthropic world view infects your lives?

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Rama Das (slave name)
You will never escape yourself for a second though, all those things you push away, disregard, downplay and run away from will be your demons that stalk you, that torment you.

Only to those followers that gave up their ethics and went crooked. Or to those that neglected their children and spouses. Others were just used and manipulated -- even brainwashed in most subtle ways. Everyone bears their own personal responsibility, but this does not exonerate Butler.

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Rama Das (slave name)
All the power is in you, you are the one choosing this way of life, you are the one choosing not to integrate your whole self.
We have the means and tools at our disposal to turn this all around.
We can heal these massive divisions in ourselves... right here, right now.
We can stop running, stop struggling, stop tearing our hearts to shreds.
We can finally take a breath for ourselves, we can create that unique space for ourselves in which we can finally let our guard down. In this space, all parts of ourselves are okay, they can show themselves.
We can learn to live through ourselves as our whole selves.

[b:9312f09831]Yes![/b:9312f09831]

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TheTruthAsItIs
Such fault lies not all at the feet of Siddha, give the dude a break: he bred a "company" that is making good healthy profits keeping expenses at a minimum eg low or no salaries, has made excellent sales willingly purchased by its members, and effectively avoided greedy government tax snares. What’s more he has reared a flock of narrow minded hypocrites that could easily equal or maybe even outdo the Christian folk, and that’s not an easy thing to do.

The convenience of shifting the personal blame for your actions under the magic carpet of a cult is not going to wash, and whether it is a mat that flew is debatable.

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emntk
[No one is going to give the dude a break.

These are not nice people. They have collectively ruined many people's lives and just because Siddha and SOI have profitted materially does not give Siddha impunity.

That is complete nonsense Truth.

And still makes me question your moral turpitude and/or current involvement with the cult.

Thanks em for saving me from having to reply!

In all fairness to "truth", he/she seems to be going through a phase in cultdom --- may want to leave, but has a hard time putting any blame on the beloved guru. Fear. It is easier to blame the "stupid followers".. It takes a real major shift to switch gears after years of being brain fu*qued by a twisted philosophy that is constantly being reinforced by a Pavlovian culture. I went through a stage like this myself. It took me years to really look at the truth in the eye, to look at Butler in the eye, without looking at him though some weird "pure devotee" colored glasses (emeral green no doubt).

The "kicker" came incrementally. The "final blow" was when everyone was blamed for VD's head injury even if you were thousands of miles away. We were all threatened with spiritual death. The funny thing is that I had already left the cult, but still followed the rituals and still received communiques. After that I stopped sending money and disappeared completely. Felt residual crap for years, but it finally went away.

Yes, my own life was severely damaged for years, and I am still struggling but each day gets easier, this board was part of a liberation for me, a way to try and understand. It was as if a veil was lifted from my eyes.

This is a forum to say what you have to say. If you don't like what someone else has to say, argue it intelligently, blind or nasty accusations will not have a good reflection on your own person. It will also discourage other people like me from joining here and saying their bit, and learning from this. This is part of the process of bringing the good stuff to the top of the soup. Before you make any cruel or thoughtless statements consider that people like me, and others, do not have anyone else talk with about this. We are alienated. Don't turn us away.

I blame myself, for selling myself so short, for allowing what happened to happen, to take some personal responsibility for making such a bad decision. I think its ok though, [b:625da977b2]because now I have let go.[/b:625da977b2] I have the people here to thank.

I have a problem judging Siddha, but that is my prerogative and philosophy: "Do not judge lest ye be judged". That is in no way the same as exonerating his actions.

I am mostly angry at myself for allowing myself to be deceived. I should have known better. I should have listened to the advice that was given by the people who cared for me at the time. Instead, I wasted years of my life.

It is essential that we hear from people like DharamRakshak, there are not many of them, and what disturbs me is that there are so few who are content with their complacency, not willing to lift their blinkers ie the true problem of a cult: blind fanatiscism.

Anyway, dear friends, I have a project I need to deal with and will not be posting for some time. Carry on the good work!