Yes sweet words to get in the door and get credentials. In every eastern school one MUST have a guru to be recognized as authentic. He most likely thought he would become well known as a great guru in ISKCON, instead some of his x-disciples who he brought into ISKCON asked him to clean the toilets. Obviously he was not feeling as low as a maggot because he was greatly insulted by such a request. He is probably still telling that story. I know I heard it many times. So what happened to the sweet words of humility he was speaking???

It may also be noted that no where can it be found that A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami recognized him as being Brahman realized or an impersonalist guru.

On the contrary I heard ACB actually said Siddha was NOT a pure devotee.

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quotesman
...... instead some of his x-disciples who he brought into ISKCON asked him to clean the toilets. Obviously he was not feeling as low as a maggot because he was greatly insulted by such a request.....

Could have been the beginnings of the germ-phobia.

I wonder if Chris Butler's parents are following this thread. They might be able to shed some light on the psychological condition of Chris, and how Chris got this "spoilt child" syndrome - maybe they spoiled him so much that cleaning the toilet was not something his parents ever made him do :x

:?:

Chris Butlers quest for enlightenment in 10 steps.

1. Gets very attached to an oriental girlfriend.

2. Gets dumped by his girlfriend.

3. This inspires him to become like the Buddha and become non-attached.

4. Takes LSD and other drugs for enlightenement and begins practicing hodge-podge spiritualism.

5. With his charima and smooth talk he gains a following.

6. He realizes in order to be accepted as a real guru he must find one himself.

7. Takes his following to ISKCON and surrenders to the guru there and gets his credentials.

8. Takes his following out of ISKCON along with a few of his gurus disciples and starts his own group again.

9. Some disciples become very prosperous in business, politics and other enterprises. Chris's empire is built.

10. Gets attached to an oriental girlfriend, marries her and lives happily ever after.

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DharamRakshak
I am a disciple….. curious to know what is being said about the people here who I consider to be my brothers and sisters.

Dhar- It’s really admirable that you were brave enough to come forward. I don’t agree with everything you say, but appreciate your trying to defend your beliefs. I was like you once. But, there is almost 30 years of history presented here on this forum from those of us who took the “blue pill” and it wasn’t krishna-colored like a dark rain cloud. 30 years of following a flawed teacher and teachings. You are a true believer wearing the same blinders we used to wear. Take a close and hard look.

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DharamRakshak
Srila Prabhuapad was not pleased with His followers in Australia, as others here should be well aware. He made it clear that He considered that we were not fit to call him Srila Prabhupad. He chastised everyone in general and some who were in a position to set a better example in particular before He left Australia.

As pointed out before, since time immemorial JG habitually chastises everyone, everywhere! JG has a history of getting sick of his disciples and splitting. He did this when he only had a few followers. An ancient M.O. He often said, “Familiarity breeds contempt.” He splits before his disciples catch on to his scams and realize his sh*t stinks like the rest of humanity. He leaves when the newness of guru wears off. Followers get tired, burnt out and lazy about serving him. They begin to slack off, run out of juice, because JG does not really inspire anyone spiritually. But like a good lover, he leaves them before they orgasm to make them want him more. “Absence makes the heart grow fonder.” He has used this tactic for years in every outpost. He gets bored. The adulation dies down. He stirs things up by blasting everyone and uses this as an excuse to leave.

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DharamRakshak
. The school here is insufficient. There is neglect of the children. Many of them when they are teenagers run wild which is a sign that they were not given adequate attention and raised with enough values instilled in them to develop a love for krishna.

LOL! Oh sweet Siddha, have mercy on my soul! You excuse the guru in typical cult fashion. “It’s all the follower’s fault! JG has nothing to do with any of this. I am so humble to admit the failings of the followers! I am parroting my guru’s lines. If only they really loved guru and Krishna….” The kids were neglected in the service of guru. The kids are wild because of neglect or because they see through all the B.S.

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DharamRakshak
. My brothers and sisters, one in particular, are guilty of great wrong doing against this person, and I know of others too, who attempted to follow the process and humbly sought to surrender to the teachings of a bonafide Spiritual Master

.
If he was so damn “bonafide” and they were such humble and sincere seekers, and everyone is chanting the magic mantras --- don’t you think the chemistry would work? Presto! Spiritual realization! No, because,--- wake up ---You have been sold a bunch of snake oil! Your own inner authority and knowledge of the truth has been smashed by a not so spiritual master. Master of charisma, yes. Master of manipulation, yes. Can he charm and make you feel completely graced and blessed in his smile, yes.(If you ever saw him in person at all.) There are 40+ pages for what your guru is really responsible. There is no misrepresentation. Try to entertain the possibility that you might be wrong about this man and we are telling you the truth. We are not demons.

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DharamRakshak
. I would like to say that Srila Prabhupad has been grossly and shamefully misrepresented by his followers. Sadly this still continues…..

Again and again it is the responsibility of the followers and not possibly the leadership! JG could never, ever, ever take responsibility for any thing! The truth and results of his teachings are played out on all of these pages. Do you really suppose JG gives a rat’s ass about you? He does not. Test him. Stop giving him what he feeds off of you and you will see his real face.

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DharamRakshak
I think that the way that Science of Identity Foundation and the Australian School of Meditation are being portrayed now is extremely damaging, and has the potential to destroy much good for many people if it continues. I do not blame the girl that is doing it though…..At the end of the day she is a woman and controversial in this age or not, as the Scripture says, women require the protection and guidance of a man. When a man does not take up this opportunity it is he who is at fault, no question.

ROTGLMAO! (rolling on the ground laughing my ass off)!
You guys just fu*qued with the wrong woman! You have it all wrong too. It’s the men in this cult that seem to need the protection and guidance of a woman! LOL! Didn’t the “girl” support this wimp!? And Yoko VD sure has been running the show for a long time now!

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DharamRakshak
…. the situation is a mess and what is being said should provoke reflection and a raising of standards rather than being ignored or dismissed.

No. You should look at the foundation of the whole cult! Starting with the head of the snake! You are all being ripped off. You wait around for years for a taste of Vrndavan’s darling, a garland from guru, and waste away your lives on trivia and sentimental imaginary longings. You neglect your self, your families and friends for what!? You really think you are SERVING God? You have been conned. It’s a great blessing for everyone if the ASM comes down --- or any other branch of JG’s tree. Like all the soldiers coming out from under the Wicked Witch’s spell in the Land of Oz.

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DharamRakshak
…. Rest assurred that if I cannot find some way to see that the teachings of Srila Prabhupad are being sincerely followed here, and that no person is being abused or left behind, that you will all recognise me when I am gone.

It is the teachings of JG that are flawed. Blaming the followers is an old mind game. The sooner you get that point, the better off you will be!

You seem like a really nice and caring person. Many of my friends in the cult were like you; really good people who were convinced by JG that they were pieces of garbage and could never please God without Prabhufraud. Get out while you can still make a life for your self. I’d hate to think of what will happen to JG’s followers when they become elderly. Do you really think JG will provide them with a pension for all their years of free service!?

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privateye
Very interesting considering they have always denied that Independents for Godly Government was started by Hare Krishnas. This is now being discussed openly by those who were there and are obviously not with MR. Butler anymore. ..

I gave over a year of my life to the “Independents for Godly Government”. It was not a “Hare Krishna” party. It was Chris Butler’s brain child. He micro-managed every piece of it, approved every flier, every door to door script and groomed every candidate. Candidates were hand picked based on their ethnicity, looks, and the fact that they were locals. We all knew politics to be corrupt. We were environmentalists, anti-abortion (based on the belief that the spirit soul enters the body at conception , and is a life), and against any kind of exploitation of others, including animals. We wanted to return to a more native and traditional Hawaii. We wanted less technology and were inspired by economist E. F. Schumacher’s “Small is Beautiful”. We were idealists that wanted to spread “Aloha Aina”, love of the land. We imagined bringing “Vrindavan” (the idealized farming communities in the krishna legends) to Hawaii. We imagined closing down the slaughterhouses and bringing down the high rises in Honolulu. We imagined clean beaches, solar and wind powered houses, organic farms. We wanted to stop the commercialism and exploitation of Hawaii by the tourist industry. We worked long and hard hours for the campaigns. We used all our expertise and talents. We imagined we were serving God.

What we never imagined is that we were all pawns in the hands of a man who really was just out for his own delusions and self interests. We never imagined our guru riding around in jets with a woman who was the “offering” of her husband. We never imagined all the donations going to the luxurious lifestyle of a couple of petulant and childish adults pretending to be spiritual masters. We never imagined that the corruption we fought against would become the modus operandi of our master. We were dangerously naïve.

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quotesman
Chris Butlers quest for enlightenment in 10 steps.

1. Gets very attached to an oriental girlfriend.

2. Gets dumped by his girlfriend.

3. This inspires him to become like the Buddha and become non-attached.

4. Takes LSD and other drugs for enlightenement and begins practicing hodge-podge spiritualism.

5. With his charima and smooth talk he gains a following.

6. He realizes in order to be accepted as a real guru he must find one himself.

7. Takes his following to ISKCON and surrenders to the guru there and gets his credentials.

8. Takes his following out of ISKCON along with a few of his gurus disciples and starts his own group again.

9. Some disciples become very prosperous in business, politics and other enterprises. Chris's empire is built.

10. Gets attached to an oriental girlfriend, marries her and lives happily ever after.

[b:ab9282dddf]Quotesman, Absolutely brilliant![/b:ab9282dddf]

It is not merely Australia that is experiencing this problem with children.


It is scientifically proven that the happiest and most productive people are encouraged by parents to feel they are safe to learn from their own experiences and mistakes. The exact opposite of how parents are suggested to raise their own children in the cult. The kids are constantly cautioned, or perhaps you could call it threatened, against socialising outside the cult, as it will detrimentally effect their consciousness, which is compared to being 'cut by a razor blade' in one of many examples.

Siddha knows about this study as it was from him that I learned of the experiment that concluded this result and others. He failed however to mention this fact. It was the experiment of the milkless comforting monkey mother and the milk giving wire mother. Showing to Siddha that love is more important than even survival. The monkeys that were punished for indepentdent behaviours experienced emotional and dependency issues.

I would suggest that Siddha is specifically aware of the outcome that his teachings will produce.

Socialisation is an important part of development and for these children living 95% of their lives at home even gaining an education will not help. On top of a strict daily injection of repressive philosophical teaching these children are encouraged to develop maladjustive, insular behaviours and naivety. My impression of being in the cult is it is comparable to a tiny amish community.

With regards to the children, Rama's parents, for example, think that Rama and the other children should feel gratitude for the relative material comfort they have experienced.

My family and others being quite the opposite I absurdly would prefer an abusive lower-class single-parent family, than a wholesome nuclear middle-class devotee family.

Rama is right. He should be highly praised for having the courage and intelligence to escape the cult since most will live as homebodies with no hope of ever amounting to anything.

Siddha's criticism of ISKCON is certainly well known to all his present and past followers.

The main basis for this criticism is the assertion by Siddha that ISKCON are disobeying the directives of ACB by having many spiritual masters. His followers commonly refer to changes being made in the Baghavad Gita 'As It Is' where references to a spiritual master have been made plural and claim that many other changes have been made to support why they do not read ISKCON books.

What happened in ISKCON after ACB 'left the planet', particularly the successor gurus is a complicated and controversial affair on which much has been written by the ISKCON Revival Movement among others BUT..

ISKCON now uses Siddha's actions while he was there to support the exact same state of affairs that he so thoroughly condemns.

In order to support their own position and actions the GBC uses letters that were written by ACB to several ambitious disciples, but by far the most preferred and supportive example is that which was written to Tusta Krsna regarding Siddha in February 1975 :

Keep trained up very rigidly and then you are bonafide Guru, and you can accept disciples on the same principle. But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. I want to see my disciples become bonafide spiritual master and spread Krsna Consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krsna very happy.

Apparently this is the only reference ACB ever made to the 'law of disciplic succession'.

From the IRM website (which has a lot of information arguing the present situation in ISKCON) www.iskconirm.com

(ACB) selected ritviks to act 'henceforward', initiating on his behalf. There is not even a whisper about diksa gurus in the final order. The letter does not say- 'this system should end on my departure' or 'this is a temporary measure due to sickness' or 'once I depart please get hold of a copy of the letter sent to Tusta Krishna for further instructions'. We can only assume therefore that it was meant to carry on. As we have shown, Srila Prabhupada consistently taught that his physical presence was immaterial. Thus his physical departure can have absolutely no relevance to the July 9th order. In fact the very way in which the ritvik system operated required absolutely no physical involvement from Srila Prabhupada, so why should his departure affect it in any way?

Realising this connection between Siddha and ISKCON in my opinion makes it very clear that ISKCON has absolutely no desire to discredit or attack Siddha (as he frequently claims they do without a single shred of proof or even specific allegations) since his actions are infact an integral part of their own design. The twisted hypocrisy of Siddha's own actions and criticisms of ISKCON is so blatant it is no wonder he wants to scare his followers away from ever seeing any information about ISKCON.

There is a lot more research I want to do into this aspect of Srila Prabhufraud's guru career. One point that I have come across is the sugguestion that this letter to Tusta was not known about until the early 80s when an employee of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust (BBT) was bribed to release it. I am thinking this may be linked to the writing of 'The Guru Business' by Sulocana das who tried to expose the corruption of ISKCON and was subsequently murdered May 22nd 1986 on the order of Swami Bhaktipada. Sulocana admitted to paying for access to information from the BBT.

Siddha is mentioned twice in The Guru Business.

[www.harekrsna.org]

"The problem that your followers want to accept you as guide in spiritual matters is not objectionable if they are sincere. If they have sincere faith in you, it may not be disturbed, rather it can be fully utilized. My main purpose is to propagate the teachings of Lord Caitanya or Krsna consciousness. I am not after recruiting some disciples; but for preaching work we want some assistants and if somebody offers voluntarily his service it is welcome. So the best thing will be that you become a regular disciple of me and you can teach your followers in the same principles." (Letter from ACB to Sai Siddha Svarupananda, 1/8/71)

Note: This letter farther qualifies the last one. It is not initiating people that matters but getting people to follow the instructions, whether coming directly from Prabhupada, from his books, or from a disciple who is preaching the exact same thing. Guru, Sastra, Sadhu. Here Prabhupada is recommending that Siddha Svarupa become a fixed-up disciple. As long as he preaches the exact same thing, then his followers will go back to Godhead, if they are sincere.

Regarding the other matters, a difference between Godbrothers is natural. That difference of opinion will continue, what can be done. Siddha Swarupananda Maharaja and his group, whenever they see me they give me money. So they are not against me. So it is a natural thing for the brothers to fight, as long as they all stay obedient to the father. Quote attributed to ACB in The Guru Business

[b:17c9dd088e] women require the protection and guidance of a man. When a man does not take up this opportunity it is he who is at fault, no question.
[/b:17c9dd088e]

WHAT CROCK OF SIDDA DOO DOO THIS IS !!!!

why dont you finish your Chauvinistic Scripture with :

[b:17c9dd088e]"THEY NEED THIS PROTECTION BECAUSE WOMAN DONT HAVE A BRAIN IN THERE HEAD "[/b:17c9dd088e]

maybe there so against homosexuals and women to mask the feminine qualitys of krishna

"wonders if chris paints himself blue and pranced thru his mansion listening to village people"

I swear this religion of chris buttlers is made up of used car hustlers and bargin store discounters ...

can some one tell me when jim and tammy baker will jump out of the cake ? or does that only happen on chris buttlers birthday ?

this cults evil and its Scripture is Degrading to both women and homosexuals and is dangerous to the young minds of children
they steal ideals from other religions to reinforce there own weak ideals ... whats next Krishna was a yoga teaching vege chip making muslim who can grant you eternal life for only Five Dollars?

how much more of there crap does the rest of humanity have to take....

remember ... those that follow false profits will burn in hell !

good luck Shish Kebabs ....

[b:378923eb5c]The whole guru business is a racket. It's a moot point about whether Siddha was considered bonafide or not by ACB. Both of their philosophies play out very badly for western followers and their children. They are both [u:378923eb5c][i:378923eb5c]cults[/i:378923eb5c][/u:378923eb5c], bearing the full weight and meaning that word implies.[/b:378923eb5c]