I encourage any follower or ex-follower who has [b:724b797276][i:724b797276]recent [/color:724b797276][/i:724b797276][/b:724b797276]information about Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa - aka- Siddha - aka - Chris Butler - aka - Prabhupad to please come forward and post. If you have witnessed [b:724b797276][i:724b797276]anything[/color:724b797276][/i:724b797276][/b:724b797276] that has not sat well in your heart or mind, let it out. I know how difficult this is, but there is happiness and life after Prabhupad. Many of us regret wasting so many years in silence and doubt having ignored our own intuition. You can post anonymously and safely here.

If you want to share older information, you are also encouraged to post those experiences as well.[/size:724b797276][/b]

[i:724b797276] He is, after all, an emperor with no clothes.....[/i:724b797276][/color:724b797276]

Let us suppose that the concerned parent who began this forum with a rather naive and sincere question was later very surprised at what was soon after revealed.
Let us suppose that the kind of abuse that was inflicted was of an emotional and mental variety. There has not been suspicion of any physical abuse.
Let us suppose that said parent, after the fact, wanted an apology and admission of unethical conduct made to the child and family. The offenders refused to do this.
Let us suppose that members of this group, by any standards other than their own, transgressed sensitive boundaries justified by them as in the name of "God".
Let us suppose that these arrogant folks are higher echelon honchos in the "organization" and have been naughty.
Let us suppose that even psycho/neuro Siddaswarupa-whatever-his-name- is, doesn't approve of their silly mistakes.
Let us suppose this was a really rare case and that they don't normally run around looking for kids outside the devotee families to convert.

Any more information about this organization's fervent enclave around Sedona, Arizona. They have a video studio there and a rather plush building for chanting. Very subdued and practically invisible presence in the community.

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kali
Let us suppose that the concerned parent who began this forum with a rather naive and sincere question was later very surprised at what was soon after revealed.
Let us suppose that the kind of abuse that was inflicted was of an emotional and mental variety. There has not been suspicion of any physical abuse.
Let us suppose that said parent, after the fact, wanted an apology and admission of unethical conduct made to the child and family. The offenders refused to do this.
Let us suppose that members of this group, by any standards other than their own, transgressed sensitive boundaries justified by them as in the name of "God".
Let us suppose that these arrogant folks are higher echelon honchos in the "organization" and have been naughty.
Let us suppose that even psycho/neuro Siddaswarupa-whatever-his-name- is, doesn't approve of their silly mistakes.
Let us suppose this was a really rare case and that they don't normally run around looking for kids outside the devotee families to convert.

And your point is.....?

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gulag
Any more information about this organization's fervent enclave around Sedona, Arizona. They have a video studio there and a rather plush building for chanting. Very subdued and practically invisible presence in the community.

The WAREHOUSE on the island of Oahu (around 1984 +) housed their video and print media productions. They had quite a large and professional facility with great equipment - fairly well described by deva dasi and just-googling. It was also the residence for a lot of the unpaid staff (illegally). Lots of labor laws violated, but oh, it was a religious thing... (sarcasm). [side bar]--No one was underaged there---

I had heard that some of his followers moved to the southwest in the 90"s. Siddha was living there too, but had health difficulties (blamed on his followers sins, of course) and moved. So I am not surprised they moved the studio there too. With the internet, there would be no need for Siddha to be there to give his directives.

The original WAREHOUSE had intended on making money by doing outside jobs. They had a few clients by the time I left, but the dream of self sufficiency had not yet been realized.

Do you know the name of the studio in Sedona? They probably produce all of Wai Lana's stuff there.

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kali
...... Let us suppose that the kind of abuse that was inflicted was of an emotional and mental variety. There has not been suspicion of any physical abuse.
....

Yes, this seems to be correct, no physical abuse reported so far but probably abuse of an emotional and mental variety - not only on children but also on adults.... Below are listed some of the problems connected to this cultish group:

1. Followers neglecting to take care of their children because they are too busy "serving" their master (i.e. preparing his 15-course meals and cleaning his mansions). One case involved a child killed on the road for lack of child care.

2. Followers neglecting to take care of their own affairs (i.e. housing, food, etc) because they are too busy "serving" their master. The financial stresses or just the stress of surviving day to day can lead to emotional distress, leading to divorce, depression, suicidal ideation, etc.

3. Irrational condemnation and paranoid delusional accusations made by the master can lead some of the more brainwashed followers also into depression, misery, and perhaps suicidal ideation.

They say you can tell a tree by its fruits... well if the fruits are misery, anxiety, depression, etc., one should really question whether this process is right for oneself. Whatever happened to the ecstatic bliss that love for G*d should entail :?:

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just-googling

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kali
...... Let us suppose that the kind of abuse that was inflicted was of an emotional and mental variety. There has not been suspicion of any physical abuse.
....

Yes, this seems to be correct, no physical abuse reported so far but probably abuse of an emotional and mental variety - not only on children but also on adults.... Below are listed some of the problems connected to this cultish group:

1. Followers neglecting to take care of their children because they are too busy "serving" their master (i.e. preparing his 15-course meals and cleaning his mansions). One case involved a child killed on the road for lack of child care.

2. Followers neglecting to take care of their own affairs (i.e. housing, food, etc) because they are too busy "serving" their master. The financial stresses or just the stress of surviving day to day can lead to emotional distress, leading to divorce, depression, suicidal ideation, etc.

3. Irrational condemnation and paranoid delusional accusations made by the master can lead some of the more brainwashed followers also into depression, misery, and perhaps suicidal ideation.

They say you can tell a tree by its fruits... well if the fruits are misery, anxiety, depression, etc., one should really question whether this process is right for oneself. Whatever happened to the ecstatic bliss that love for G*d should entail :?:

Hi googling!
I've been reading a website about ex-Ramtha followers. Their experiences mirror many of our own, particularly the anxiety and depression, feelings of betrayal and loss, feelings of being duped and ripped off of their money, and feelings of just not ever being good enough. No one should have any doubt that this group is a type of cult and carries with it all the associated risks and dangers to ourselves and our children.

Since these terms have been mentioned and it has been insinuated that some helpful information might be forthcoming......exactly what would free discourse bring about to offenders?
Would members retaliate in some way against each other? Horrid.
What is the big deal that is not being discussed and must be defended?
Are criticism and questioning not permitted?
What do people get out of blindly obeying?

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kali
Let us suppose that the kind of abuse that was inflicted was of an emotional and mental variety. There has not been suspicion of any physical abuse.
Let us suppose that said parent, after the fact, wanted an apology and admission of unethical conduct made to the child and family. The offenders refused to do this.
Let us suppose that members of this group, by any standards other than their own, transgressed sensitive boundaries justified by them as in the name of "God".
Let us suppose that these arrogant folks are higher echelon honchos in the "organization" and have been naughty.
Let us suppose that even psycho/neuro Siddaswarupa-whatever-his-name- is, doesn't approve of their silly mistakes.
Let us suppose this was a really rare case and that they don't normally run around looking for kids outside the devotee families to convert.

In response to the above and a private message:

I have no idea what guides or motivates Siddha and his followers today. Nor do I know what they are up to at present. I can only relate a portion of the history upon which certain patterns may be perceived and the future might be predicted. In other words, one can apprehend the future by observing past patterns. Of course, anything is possible, including deviations from the pattern. People change. Because of Siddha’s contentious, isolationist, and misanthropic world view, he has invited a lot of valid criticism, as well as false rumors.

If you want to understand their philosophy, there is a website that has all of Chris Butler’s pamphlets online at: [www.iskcon.net]. I don’t have time write a critical review. I leave that to others.

The “guiding purpose” of the group is pretty typical of most religions and cults; to connect to the godhead and align yourself with God’s will (e.g., your purpose in life). The leader usually has had some spiritual (psychotic?) experiences or delusions and is supposedly endowed with divine or mystical powers beyond normal human beings. Rituals, prayers and meditation practices are taken from mainstream or ancient sources. To reach higher states of consciousness or to free oneself from the cycle of birth and death (or to enter heaven) one needs to learn from and serve the master. Followers are encouraged to proselytize to save the world. Jesus, Mohammed, Ramtha, and Siddha all fit the pattern. What is real? What is the con? What is truth? Where is the lie? Why do we choose to believe what we believe?

My personal thoughts are that when we have no sense of the beauty, perfection and genius of our own self that we disconnect from the source of all good (appreciation of G*d, the Universe, the Force, whatever you call it). We become like moths to a flame. We try to live off the light of others instead of developing our own. It is this very light that blinds us to the fact that we can generate our own illumination. Often coming from a history of drug use, we are addicted to states of ecstasy and run after the promise of altered states of consciousness that our guru provides.

Like bars of iron we desire to be magnetized by our spiritual master. Our personalities begin to be reshaped into imitations of him. Curiously, a young man from Brooklyn can develop an Indian or Hawaiian accent, depending on the origin of the guru. We begin to dress, walk and talk and phrase our sentences like him. Our families laugh at or silently tolerate our new names and mannerisms. And like iron, which seems so strong, it is a metal malleable when heated, brittle and easily broken when cold. We allow ourselves to be beaten into the image that our guru desires. In the end, it never satisfies because we did not do the spiritual work ourselves and it is not who we ever were intended to be.

Out of our laziness and desire for easy answers, we do not allow ourselves to be put under any real anvil of truth. So we enter into a vampiric relationship with a guru figure who sucks our energy as we suck his. I call this “guruitis”. Both the guru and the gurutee have guruitis. Neither person is taking responsibility for their life. As long as our pathological mutual needs are being met, we can linger here for years. Over time, Siddha developed a contempt for his followers and his own dependency upon them. Many of his followers began to see the fraud and left after facing the embarrassing and painful truths.

I am not against teachers, nor the possibility that there are human beings who have more wisdom than us. Real guides appreciate your uniqueness and inspire you to become responsible and to develop your own abilities. They inspire you to be the best [b:935718835b][i:935718835b]you[/i:935718835b][/b:935718835b] that one can be. Discouraging imitation and spiritual lethargy, they realize that we are all geniuses incognito.

My opinion on the “coveting a non-member child” is that, again, anything is possible. If this was happening to my child, I wouldn’t give a sh*t if the cultees gave me an apology or not. I’d get a restraining order, a lawyer, move away, and get my kid counseling if needed. NO ONE MESSES WITH MY KIDS! (But I know how cults work from the inside out and have taught my children well). From my years of knowing Siddha, he is not likely to be behind such a scenario. Siddha is too smart to jeopardize his empire over an under-aged child. It doesn’t make sense and doesn’t fit his M.O. Young children were never his currency. He has nothing to gain. Followers really have a lot more autonomy than you imagine. I suspect that a crazy follower thought they were “saving” this child. There are many types of cults. They don’t all operate like some television movie of the week. Often times the followers and “true believers” are more dangerous than the cult leader. [b:935718835b][i:935718835b]This is just one man’s opinion.[/i:935718835b][/b:935718835b] I suppose anything is possible, but if it were my kid, I would be very aggressive and proactive about the situation! Read my post (I think on page 11 or 12 of ‘Krishna group in Hawaii’ on how to inoculate your kids from cults).
Hope this answers your questions. ~i.