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devadasi
Yea I remember in California when Siddha had two residences. One a luxury condo on the beach, for his and the queen bees living. To give you an idea of the status of the place Tom Cruise had a condo there too. Yea I remember waiting hours on end to go inside, sometimes up to three hours waiting at his door, in order to clean up the mess left by Siddha and his yogini wife. Tom Cruise could be seen riding his jet ski in front of the luxurious condo complex from time to time. Siddha had another bungalow within walking distance from the first condo so him and his dear wife could do all their important service without interfering with their home life. No householder likes working in their home. Home life should be cuddly and cozy and no real householder wants to bring work home with them. Now that is simple living to be able to walk to work everyday!!! This was in Malibu Ca. to give you an idea of what the cost was. Yea I remember at that time his servants in his personal service were dumpster diving to get enough food to eat. The cooks had another house to prepare all the masters meals as it would have been bothersome and disturbing for Siddha to have anyone cook in his presence. Even though both his home and work place had full kitchens it would have been uncomfortable for siddha and his dearest to have to put up with all the cooking. A separate house for the cooking was always standard, a necessary expenditure.

At one point some complaints had come from somewhere in the world, most likely from some of his big contributors, who thought perhaps money was being wasted. Siddha agreed and at the same time he also thought people were not honoring his prasadam, the remnants of what the master was eating. So Siddha being a pretty could economics man decided the solution was to charge for his remnants. I still am not sure who was supposed to pay for his prasadam (mercy), as all the devotees I knew were just practically maintaining their bodies and souls together by the skin of their teeth and had no money at all. Him and the queen bee where getting no less than 15 preps a meal, twice a day, so it is true a few crumbs were coming back for sale. I remember the cost of that kitchen was something like $100.00 a day. But the food being prepared by his servants was not up to snuff enough and the queen bee wanted to have restaurant food to supplement their yogi diets. To insure the restaurant food was high standard and not contaminated the cook at the restaurant was required to wear a germ mask just like all siddhas cooks. I am not sure how much extra that cost. Also special pots were brought to the restaurant to ensure Siddha or his wife did not eat from the restaurant pots, that would have been a great offense to such a yogi and yogini. I am not sure if the restaurant was even vegetarian. I remember how Siddha said he had to get restaurant food (on top of the daily 30 preps) because his servants could not make anything that tasted good. At the time the thought that perhaps Katyayani should take over cooking for the master and mistress yogis but put it off as probably a great offense to even think such a thing.
Hey Barbara, Jagad Guru is alive and watching this stuff, trust me.

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barabara
[b:19cf6b17c3]No one has manufactured stories of child abuse here.[/b:19cf6b17c3]
There are several accounts from concerned parents, here, and on other topic threads.

The allegations of manipulation made by the parent of an indoctrinee in Poland were posted on the website of a Krishna devotee.

[www.vrindavan.org]

There is definitely a school in the Phillipines run by Butler's devotees.
The fact that you know nothing about it does not imply that it does not exist.

By denying these things, you are basically accusing me and the others of telling lies.

I assure you, and anyone else who is reading this, that we are not.

The people I have spoken to have chosen for a variety of reasons, some of which I am aware of, not to file legal action against Butler's group.
Perhaps in the future, they will choose to do so.

You claim to know nothing of the activities of the group at present.
I do not make the same claim.

I am suspicious of your motivation for denying these allegations.

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I've heard that the SIF people send their young ones to this Phillipines center for one year as a sort of rite of passage. Several years ago, the manager of their temple was canvassed by Narayan Maharaj and left to join his temple in India. Other than that, no more information at this time.

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I have had no success finding out about this school which apparently is run by Butler (off-shoot Krishna guru) somewhere in Phillipines. Young people attend, Americans and other. I would appreciate any information please.

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Very difficult to get information about this school, which I have heard referred to as a "covent". Supposedly it actually costs to go there. Could possibly be checked out thru some government agency. Good idea as this functioning assembly of people seem fairly rabid to recruit. And it is children we are talking about here.

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EDIT 4: One Hare Krishna couple with two children got divorced years and years ago (maybe 1990's but not sure). The wife supposedly took both children to Hawaii and vanished in the Caitanya Mission'ss vast interconnected commune network. The story is told this way; The father, despondent over not seeing his children for several years, wrote a letter to Chris Butler (Siddhaswarupananda) begging to see his children again. Butler replied with a hostile letter laden with obscenities.

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According to what I have been told by various Krishna devotees, including one former disciple of Butler, The Phillipines school is not merely for local devotees but for those all over the world who want quick indoctrination. Some have been known to stay there for a year. Hawaii and Philipines are the nerve centers of Butler's group; Hawaii due to proximation to Butler, and Phillipines due to this center. Do you need the exact location of this school?

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Mike Gabbards is a disciple of Chris whose Krishna name is Krishna Kata das. His wifes Krsna name is Devahooti das. [b:1312487b48]Mike ran a school for Chirs in Samoa for years where kids of the cult went to learn how to be follwers of Chris.[/b:1312487b48]
[b:1312487b48]There was a big lawsuit in Poland against the cult who alleged abuse but the cult beat the wrap.[/b:1312487b48]

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[b:1312487b48]As for the school in the Philippines, I am sure that it is not as bad as the typical Hare Krishna schools that were in India or USA in the past, which were famous for all kinds of physical abuse.[/b:1312487b48]

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Bob and Just-googling.
I need help. A family member has started associating with the Krishna group.
Now she refuses invitation to family events (we are a very close nit family) and when we do see her she only wants to talk about such things as reincarnation and karma and all the other things she is being indoctrinated in

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It was never a policy to tell other people’s kids they love them more or are their real family. If this happened it was some[b:1312487b48] dumb follower.[/b:1312487b48] Chris Butler is not stupid. There is no way he would jeopardize his empire over some [b:1312487b48]idiot neophyte[/b:1312487b48]

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Hi, I am a very scared parent.
I have a[b:1312487b48] 5[/b:1312487b48] year old son to my ex. About 2 years ago she got heavily involved with a Massage teacher called "Brandon Raynor".
About a year later I found out (through my son) that my partner had removed my son from the pre-school that he was attending.
Shortly after this my ex agreed to send my son to me for a visit as I had not seen him for about 3 months by this stage. When he arrived [b:1312487b48]his bag was full of Krishna related "schooling" books, DVD's and audio tapes that he was supposed to absorb himself with while he was with me.[/b:1312487b48]
My biggest shock came when I viewed the DVD's which were lightly disguised as teaching aids based on the Krishna religion. [b:1312487b48]They were quite simply brainwashing aids, with very obvious subliminal techniques employed. There were continual references to a guru called "Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa", better known as Chris Butler![/b:1312487b48]

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And denying there is such a thing as betrayal and victimization can be a way for some to deny that they've been betrayed or victimized. They may try to shame others into silence because their attempts to bear witness threaten to activate unbearable repressed pain. Some may argue that a willingness to endure (or at least rationalize) abuse is the sign of a real disciple and that anyone who has misgivings is self indulgent.

Saddest of all, well intended advice from the no-victims stance ('stop wallowing in your victim mindset!')--often delays healing and shames injured persons into silence.

It is worth noting that persons who like to prey on children often use flattery and forms of false empowerment. They will seek to exploit a youngster's natural craving to seek independance from his or her family, by flattering the child, by treating that child as a grown up, and hint that the parents efforts to protect the child (curfew, call home before dark) are insulting.

This flattery seduces the child away from the genuine protection offered by parents and into the false empowerment offered by the predator who sets the child up for exploitation by denying that there is any such thing as exploitation because the predator and child are peers.

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just-googling
Regarding the debate on underage children being indoctrinated by the group, Barbara and others certainly have a reason to be concerned about this. It is quite conceivable that this is going on, considering the fanatacism of some of these people...

When I was involved with the group in the 1970s it was mostly young people for sure who were attracted to the scene, but usually people in their 20s or late teens (I am not sure if the legal age to make one's own decisions is 18 or what?), but everyone was over 18. There was one young boy, however, of about 10 who ran away from his home and stayed at the farm... however his parents did not seem to care about this as he was having a good time with us, and we were feeding him, etc. It was completely innocent in those days.

Of course, I agree that things could have changed over the years, just as many, many things have changed within this cult...

I suppose we need more people to come forward and state their case, and more info on the Philippines scenario.

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barabara
Could it be possible that no one has come forth because they are afraid of the fanatics in this group?

This is only a question, one I have wondered about for quite some time.

I would prefer to think that all is "completely innocent", as in the old days.

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initiate


... I wish more people would come out and add to these posts. We are like the little boy in the story, "The Emperor's New Clothes" who gets ostracised for pointing out that the Emperor is naked.